Understanding Global Warming - A Question

Global warming is generally explained as resulting from warmer air, and warmer water.

I am wondering if the earth itself may be heating up too - kind of like radiant heat, or a heated floor.

We know that oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and dam and reservoir construction can trigger quakes. Then, quakes trigger bigger quakes.

Quakes also destabilize geophysical deposits - like gas. We know that the earth can "vent" gases.

So why not heat?

It seems to me that geophysical activity might trigger some heating mechanism in the earth itself, and contribute to global warming.

Anyone else thinking about this? Comments?

Interesting, but I always thought that global warming is just the stepping stone to another ice age, meaning that is just temporary until the new trend of warm air triggers the colder temperatures to start ricing.

I am also kind of confused here

Marge, You're not alone, no one has all the answers regarding the causes or remedies to GW. Soficrow's theory is as good as any I've heard. I'm partial to solar activity myself.

It all depends on the interplay of our heat sinks(oceans), reflectors(trees and certain particulates), greenhouse gases(CO2, Methane and Water Vapor) and Carbon Sinks(Soil CO2 fixation and Sediment deposits eventually converting into bedrock in time). Depleting Oil reserves shouldn't have that much of an effect as air pockets are quite good insulators, the smaller and more numerous they are compared to the total cubic area of the crust will depend on the total insulation value of these things(for an extreme example of this, see Aerogel). CO2 pocket are even better. We are basically replacing a Heat Sink with an insulator. Anyone who is familiar with PC's knows that Heat sinks help to dissipate and transport heat while insulators...well you know. If they are filled with Sea Water however, then I have no idea how that will effect it. If it's deep enough and the top is close enough to the surface I can see how it may transfer some heat to the surface.

as i understand it, the outer shell of earth we call 'the crust'
acts as a type of insulation from the molten 'core'
and the heated to a plastic consistancy 'mantle'

which the Continental Crust (thick but light)
and the Oceanic Crust (thinner but denser) 'floats' on.

all those underground lakes/rivers
and caves or pockets of gas and petroleum
are themselves encased in the crust that floats on top of the hot interior mantle

i only see a one way exit of heat from the (gradually cooling)mantle thru volcano's at those hot spots in the crust...
or those places like the Mid-Atlantic ridge where the seafloor is spreading & spewing thermal vents.
i think the 'venting' is a natural cycle, & possibly overlooked as a major catalyst of the present GW situation

i don't see how any external source is causing the mantle to get hotter,
but i might consider the super heated core might be going through atypical contortions
(which, theorectically, accompanies the cyclic magnetic reversals of the 'poles')
which in turn creates heat plumes in the outer mantle, that gets vented in more spots under the sea.

but as far as the earths crust becoming a hotter, radiant floor...then the planet might just kill off all its vegetation,
except for
those few plants which can thrive on the high plateau regions of the world

Originally posted by sardion2000

Depleting Oil reserves shouldn't have that much of an effect as air pockets are quite good insulators, ...CO2 pocket are even better. We are basically replacing a Heat Sink with an insulator. Anyone who is familiar with PC's knows that Heat sinks help to dissipate and transport heat while insulators...well you know. If they are filled with Sea Water however, then I have no idea how that will effect it. If it's deep enough and the top is close enough to the surface I can see how it may transfer some heat to the surface.

As I understand it, water is pumped in when oil and gas are extracted, at least. The reason for replacing the material with water is structural.

Water, oil and gas all have different properties, especially regarding insulation, shock absorbtion and conductivity. So presumably large scale replacement would have some effect.

More efficient heat transfer from the core may be one effect...?

Climate is the continuation of oceans by other means. So, when climate is heating, it means that the ocean is already heated and that there is something happening on the ocean. What else could it be? Naval activity, warfare, etc. It is obvious that we should pay attention to the ocean to see whay global warming is happening.

Originally posted by soficrow

As I understand it, water is pumped in when oil and gas are extracted, at least. The reason for replacing the material with water is structural.
...............

Water is not being used to replace oil, or gases. Water is used as a conductor for the data being transmitted to surface equiptment in rigs, data is being sent in pulses by the MWD (Measurement While Drilling) tool with some of the most advanced technology used right now, and to flush out the sediment from the borehole as the bit drills through the formation.

The mixed water with mud is forced down through the pipes and recycled reaching the surface to the mud pits, where the chips of rock and other pieces of the drilled formation is separated from the mud/water by the shale shaker, then the mixed water/mud is again forced down the borehole, and the process keeps being repeated.

Water also helps to maintain stability of the formation in the borehole as it is being drilled, otherwise the formation will become brittle and collapse. The mixed solution of water and mud also depends on the formation being drilled, and the solution needed for the water/mud that will be used is decided normally by one of the mud engineers. This mixed solution can change throughout the drilling process.

When the kicking point is reached, when they are about to start the curve to drill from vertical to horizontal, which is the way that is drilled in most of the Northwest of the U.S., the end of that curve is the casing point. Which is the first section of the hole being drilled. When the casing point is reached, casing is lowered and cemented to maintain better stability in that section of the borehole.

When the horizontal section is reached, the geologist gets together with the MWD and the directional driller throughout that section of drilling to find out which way they have to drill to reach TD.

There are several ways to drill for oil/gas, water is not always used, and usually the water is mixed with mud, the composition of that mix is determined by the Geologist or mud engineer. It depends on the formation being drilled and some other factors.

There are several steps that are made in order to drill for oil/gas. After all the data is retrieved and TD (Total Depth) is reached, a well completion crew plugs the hole, after the rig is moved out of the area, a decision based on the data recieved is made on whether to make production from that well, or to leave it plugged and abandon it.

BTW, drilling does not cause earthquakes, that is a myth to the best of my knowledge.

It is a bit more complicated than that, but pretty much that sums it up.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Muaddib]

The Earth is heating up, just like every planet and moon in the solar system with an atmosphere is heating up.

The processes that control the solar system are a lot more powerful than anything mankind can do.

The current climate change we are going through it is most probably part of the cycle the earth, and the entire solar system goes through. The only thing we can do is try to be prepared, and see if we can get out of the solar system, which i kind of doubt is going to happen anytime soon or in the next 10-20 years, at least.

We hear about global warming yet in this region, the mid-Rockies, we've had an early winter and bitter cold with blizzards on the plains. Every few decades it changes from global warming to global cooling. My opinion is it is job security. These "scientists" have to "warn" about something to keep the grants pouring in. I'm not convinced and I don't think the "scientists" believe it either. The only "warming" is the hot air coming from them.

Originally posted by soficrow
Global warming is generally explained as resulting from warmer air, and warmer water.

I am wondering if the earth itself may be heating up too - kind of like radiant heat, or a heated floor.

If the atmosphere is heating due to the rays traped by pollution which would then heat the surface of the earth,i`m puzzled at why your puzzled about that.

Not sure if anyone here has seen the documentry just released here in Australia "aninconvenienttruth" its well worth watching concerning global warming.

There are a great many misconceptions concerning global warming. One being that the warming is only a prelude to an ice age. Baloney! Certain parts of the earth could cool down substantially while the remainder of it is heating up, but that's due to local factors such as a cessation of the Gulf Stream which annually pumps an enormous amount of heat from the Caribbean area to northern Europe, the Northeastern U.S. and Canada. A complete stoppage of the Gulf Stream could indeed trigger an ice age in those areas mentioned above. However, the gradual heating of the remainder of the planet would eventually overpower even that effect and cause those areas to warm up as well.

Heat from the interior of the planet is not contributing to global warming. As a matter of actual fact, the interior of the Earth is gradually cooling down and at some point in the far distant future it will cease to be molten (if the Earth lasts that long). When that happens, the Earth will largely lose its magnetic field and all life will likely be obliterated by our own sun's constant radiation.

A 3 to 5 degree centigrade increase in average global temperature is what global warming is really all about (and let me emphasize that, that is only a guesstimate). Such an increase has mainly bad consequences for humans. I say mainly because for some areas of the Earth such an increase would be seen as a good thing--and it would be too. Forget about localized effects of global warming and think about what such a temperature increase would actually mean for humans and other animals and plants populating the world.

The thermal expansion of the oceans alone would displace millions of people around the world--and that doesn't count rising sea levels due to the melting of ice (which could amount to as much as several meters alone). Over 80% of the Earth's population lives within 50 miles of one of the Earth's oceans and the average elevation of that land is very little. So, if you factored say a 10 meter rise in ocean levels into the mix you're talking about the loss of a lot of real estate--real estate that is densely populated. For example, look at a topilogical map of Eastern Bangledesh. A majority of the entire country could end up submerged.

As the globe heats up the atmosphere will retain more moisture. Some of that moisture will condense as clouds and actually help keep things a bit cooler than they could be. However, water vapor is probably the most important, so-called greenhouse gas and increases in atmospheric retention of water vapor will cause the earth to warm up even faster.

The picture isn't pretty no matter how you dress it up. Diseases of many kinds would increase, the availability of fresh water would decrease, etc., etc., etc. Fortunately global warming isn't instantaneous, it takes decades, which leaves us time to try to mitigate some of it and prepare for what we can't change.

It really isn't important whether global warming is being partly, or largely caused by the activities of mankind because it's happening anyway. One recently completed scientific study says the sun's radiant output cycles over a period of approximately 100,000 years--and is now approaching a peak. Humans are not powerless however, we can change things to some extent. How much remains to be seen. One thing is certain though and that is no single nation can change things by themselves. Virtually all of mankind will have to pull together to have any substantial effect.

[edit on 27-1-2007 by Astronomer70]

despite what anyone says here, no one can correctly predict what the warming will actually do to our civilisation. you cannot say you will not have a mini ice age in europe for example, like you cannot say how many species of animals will go extinct.

all we know is that the sun is the main cause of this all, and that man cannot control the sun, so the human race just has to get on with it. scientists have always predicted things wrongly, where things work faster or slower than they understood.

all i would say to the thread starter is read as much as you can on the subject and try to get some understanding. no matter what man does, he will not be able to stop the course they are on now, whatever that is meant to be. mans influence on the earth with co2 is probably small.

for all the people that say this wont happen and that wont happen, just look at even the believers in gw, they are even surprised at how fast this process is moving, even though it probably is just the sun as main cause.

even though it is propaganda watch algores video an inconvienient truth, is well made though appealing to your emotional level, he is trying to effect human conscience with that.

Why don't you find out for yourself?

Originally posted by Soitenly
Why don't you find out for yourself?

I am.

One thing many people forget is that ice as a good reflector, and reflects much of the Sun's heat back to space.

The reduction of the ice covered areas reduces the amount of light and heat that is reflected back to space and those areas, without the ice, absorb the heat, helping the warming of all the Earth.

I don't think we could have an ice age in Northern Europe because of global warming. The temperatures have been higher than they used to be in northern Europe and lower in southern Europe.

A year ago I saw for the first time some snow flakes falling. They disappeared instantaneously, but in some places the snow was enough to make some sculptures, something that never had happened in Portugal.

Also, Summers are still hot, and I don't think that we can have an ice age only in Winter and not in the Summer.

having an ice age in europe has to do with the north atlantic current. if that stops, then the air oceans will not heat the artic winds, so europes temp will drop quite a bit. also you probably need greenland to thaw out, as well, to put fresh water into the north atlantic, which is not impossible.

there are quite a few ways that it could happen, just because we have warm summers does not guarantee summers like that for ever. weather on earth is cyclical, and depends massively on the sun, no one knows how bad the sun will get in this period, and what happens after that.

so there are many questions, and sciencetist, do not have any real answers, and are quite bad at predicted this situation, becasue all there models on these things are not working at the mo.

weather has not gone crazy, it is just unpredictable to man, and his current knowledge and technology.

what happens in europe is so dependent on that gulf stream, and no one knows what will happen if it ever stops.

[edit on 27-1-2007 by andy1033]