2008 Conservative Presidential Candidates

I don't doubt that McCain wants to be President. He has no choice but to step back from the Bush administration. I don't think any other candidate in the Republican field is so closely associated with the war, and the Bush administration (specifically).

Don is right, what we saw this weekend was a re-vamped and contrite McCain.

posted by xpert11

McCain has no choice - he has to craft a different image if he wants any chance in ‘08 assuming he is the Republican nominee. McCain needed to start redefining his image three years ago. Then again voters do have the tendency of short memories.

I think it is the nomination or nothing for McCain and Romney. Why say this? Unless McCain’s shallow political make over is successful he will be too closely tied to the Iraq mess and the people who created it. Politically the branch of Christianity Romney subscribes to would act as mark against his name when it comes to choosing a VP.

On a personal level I think the opinion of a candidate about evolution as well as their views on the separation of the church and state says more [about them] then the branch of Christianity they subscribe to.

The Religious Right have certainly shown that those who preach morality [sometimes] are the most corrupt. But I wouldn't write those nut jobs off as being dead just yet . Always remember that threats to your freedom can come from internal forces while your eyes are cast else where. [Edited by Don W]

Half my family are Catholics and half are born again Protestants in those mega churches. I’m the only family member who can sleep soundly at night. But we don’t talk about religion. Logic has nothing to do with faith. Evil history and even unsavory contemporary practices are conveniently apologized for or more often just ignored. A fall from grace. When I was a kid and first heard the phrase, “Christian Apologetics,” I did not know what it meant. Now I know what it means but I’m still no better off.

Generally speaking, it is usually pretty obvious who is running for the top banana and who would be proud to get the No. 2 spot. Because our society frowns on losing and disdains losers - ask B43 - no one would dare say “I want to be President of the Senate of the United States of America!” A job VP Garner - FDR’s first VP - said was NOT worth a bucket of warm spit! And that when every he-man could spit a dozen feet and hit a spittoon half the time.

I see Sen. McCain - mainly due to his age - he is nearly as old as I am - as not seeking the No. 2 spot, but Mitt Romney OTOH is one guy who could appreciate the consolation prize. Like Barack Obama, shoot high, but be humble enough to answer the call should it come. [It won’t come in Barack's case who seems affected by the same problem that undid the Greek god, Narcissus].

Mormonism. Aside from the similarity of Joseph Smith to the High Priest of the old time Israelites, who both thoughtlessly lost the original tablets written either by God or by the Angel Moroni, Mormons do seem to make good citizens but like so many true believers, all the better when not in the majority. Making Christians of any variety into a majority spawns a Jekyll and Hyde dual personality. True believers too often do not know when to stop “sharing” their faith. All I know for certain about Mormons is they don’t drink coffee which due to my 6-8 cups a day habit either bars me from membership or condemns me to eternal damnation in Hell! All I can say is “Shame on you Mr Maxwell, get your house in order!”

That’s my “take” on 2 major candidates - excluding the leading candidate - the oft married ex-Mayor of NYC, the GOP’s Orville Redenbacher candidate, do one thing and do it well, the Nine Eleven Event man, Mr Rodolfo Giuliani.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by donwhite]

I remain hopeful that we have seen the last of hard core right-wing religion in politics. I know it will always be there, but I'll be glad to se it greatly diminished.

As I write this, it seems clear that all the candidates are happy to just let the game clock run for a few weeks. Could be that we might not see or hear much from them for a while.

I gave up coffee for dietary reasons, but I do miss it. I will usually breath deeply when I pass the coffee stacks in the grocery store. I did have a cup for my birthday, which passed recently. Man, that was gooood.

I've got several unfinished projects going at the same time, so I'm feeling a bit squirrelly. It's a good thing that I don't have that complicated by coffee.

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Justin Oldham]

posted by Justin Oldham

I remain hopeful that we have seen the last of hard core right-wing religion in politics. [Edited by Don W]

Single issue politics. Litmus testing. Sure, the excessively Religious can lay low now, it looks to me the RR have won. You name it they got it, including a very nice “contribution” from the US Treasury. You and I may be for separation of church and state, but they surely are not. I hate to remind you, but the RR were not aligned with the Democrats.

As I write this, it seems clear that all the candidates are happy to just let the game clock run for a few weeks. Could be that we might not see or hear much from them for a while.

Thank Goodness for Small things. It is for sure the 10 Reps and 8 Dems could not keep up the earlier pace, either money-wise or voter interest wise.

I gave up coffee for dietary reasons, I did have a cup for my recent birthday. Man, that was gooood. I've got several unfinished projects going at the same time, so I'm feeling a bit squirrelly. It's a good thing that I don't have that complicated by coffee.

My doctor says my diastolic pressure - usually 75 at rest, could be lowered 5 points if I stopped drinking so much coffee. At my age, it is obvious you have to die from something, so too much coffee is not all that bad. I would say “I hope you live forever” but then you would probably laugh at me.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by donwhite]

I don't need to live forever, but I would like to be able to walk in to a room under when own power at 100 to blow out the candles on my 100th birthday cake. I also want to have the mental and physical capacity to hit on a nurse. Then, I can die. No actual sex, I just want to be able to pinch her (specifcally a female nurse) and say something worthy of being slapped. Then I can die.

AP reports the passing of Jerry Falwell at the age of 73. Love him or hate him, Falwell was a force in conservative politics. His demise will likely have a measurable effect on the 2008 elections. As a spokesman for the hard right, he never failed to be contraversial.

It now remains to be seen if any of the GOP candidates will have the nerve to exploit this situation. Don and I have been alive long enough to have actually seen civil rights leaders exploit the death of MLK. As cold as it sounds, in purest political terms, there's an opportunity here just waiting for the savvy-est of Republicans.

posted by Justin Oldham

AP reports Jerry Falwell died at the age of 73. Falwell was a force in conservative politics. His demise will have a measurable effect on the 2008 elections. As a spokesman for the hard right, he never failed to be controversial. It now remains to be seen if any of the GOP candidates will have the nerve to exploit this situation.

Don and I have been alive long enough to have actually seen civil rights leaders exploit the death of MLK. As cold as it sounds, in purest political terms, there's an opportunity here just waiting for the savvy-est of Republicans. [Edited by Don W]

Recall Jesse Jackson claiming to have been on the porch when Dr. King was shot? After saying that for a couple days, someone found a photo showing when Jackson did arrive on the porch and King had been dead 15 minutes. He quietly dropped that claim to closeness. The Religious Right as opposed to the Civil Rights Movement in 1968, has several centers of gravity. Pat Robertson and James Dobson come to my mind.

The National Association of Religious Broadcasters (NARB) is the central distribution point for RR strategy. Watch the next convention to see who is going to be the heir to Falwell.

[edit on 5/15/2007 by donwhite]

The religious right could well make Jerry out to be some kind of martyr.
In political terms one of the more socially conservative could exploit the death of Jerry in order to bring the corrupt religious right into there camp.

However the candidate would have to chose there audience wisely and the antics of Ted Haggard would still be fresh in peoples minds although the hard core religious right are willing to forgive anything providing that a person claims to be a Christian .

People only needed to be reminded of the fact that Jerry blamed 9-11 on Liberals and Feminists and attacked a kids TV show. In other words exploiting Jerry legacy could also backfire spectacularly. The Anti Hillary camp and people who want rid of the religious right could be put off a candidate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but members the civil rights movement never sought ways to deny African - Americans the right to vote while marching and preaching (if I may use that term ) civil rights.


[edit on 15-5-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 15-5-2007 by xpert11]

posted by Justin Oldham

It remains to be seen if any GOP candidates will have the nerve to exploit this situation. As cold as it sounds, in purest political terms, there's an opportunity here just waiting for the savvy-est of Republicans.

J/O
I wrote earlier the Dems seem to have put their money on the West. In 2004, the Dems carried the West Coast, albeit tight in Washington. The Dems carried the Upper Mid West, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois. They had pinned their electoral victory on Ohio, and had John Edwards on the ticket to appeal to the union members in Ohio, but all the factories are closed and there are no more union members in Ohio. The Dems demographer must have been fired! The Dems carried the Northeast including Pennsylvania. And of course, DC. By holding their convention in Denver and putting NM Gov. Bill Richardson on the ballot in the No. 2 slot, they may be able to pull it off!

The “twin tier” of western states are: Arizona (10), New Mexico (5), Utah (5), Nevada (5), Idaho (4), Colorado (9), Wyoming (3) and Montana(3). All went GOP in 2004. The ‘04 electron went like this, GOP 31 states and 51% of the popular vote, 286 electoral votes. The Dems 19 states + DC equaled 48% of the popular vote and 252 electoral votes. If the Dems could hold all the states they carried in 04, and switch Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, that would give them 19 more votes, or 271, one more than the required 270. Colorado, 9 votes, New Mexico 5 votes and Nevada, 5 votes. The GOP electoral college vote would fall to 267.

Of course, a strong effort would have to be made in every state, but the Dems would want to pay special attention to Washington, Vermont and Maine if they are staking their campaign on such a narrow margin, 1 vote.

I noted today on CNN that Bloomberg is ahead of Giuliani in NY polls. Bloomberg is a rich Dem who flipped to GOP due to various nominating problems. If Rudy can’t hold NY, he can’t get the nomination. That puts too old McCain and too religious Romney at the top of the list. That makes back benchers like Fred Thompson and Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich more realistic. My choice out of that group is Newt. A known quantity who says he has mellowed away from his more strident Contract with America positions.

[edit on 5/15/2007 by donwhite]

In terms of political strategy, I'm thinking that Don may be on to something. I'm starting to think that the tilt he mentions may be a little more one-sided than he suspects, in favor of the Dems. I expect Hillary's team to change their stance and go after the Hispanic vote in late July.

Aside from Demographics, I think she will do this to bring Obama in to line. She's got to crack the whip on him how while she can. if he were to play his cards right, and if events continue to break his way, he could surprass her in the polls.

I still say the religious right has already thrown in the towel.

posted by Justin Oldham

(1) I’m starting to think the tilt [Don] mentions may be a little more one-sided than he suspects, in favor of the Dems. I expect Hillary's team to change course and go after the Hispanic vote by late July.

(2) Aside from demographics, I think she will do this to bring Obama in to line. She's got to crack the whip on him now while she can. If he were to play his cards right, and if events continue to break his way, he could surpass Hillary in the polls.

(3) I still say the religious right has already thrown in the towel. [Edited by Don W]

1) Yes, J/O. Any good productive vote getting work done in one state is going to rub off in the neighboring states, so IF the Dems carry Colorado they might carry Utah and Idaho as well. If the 2006 voter rejection of the GOP holds until November 4, 2008, then Ohio surely would be back in play and maybe West “By God” Virginia as well. In Kentucky, a MD with a Greek surname almost beat GOP Cy Young pitcher turned 3 term Senator Jim Bunning in’06. The senior Senator McConnell comes up for election in ‘08, I believe. He’s smart and I hope he’s busy attending to his own hometown problems.

2) Yes, Barack is a real problem for the Dems. I have written earlier that I thought the senior African Americans in Congress would take him under control and explain the “birds and bees” to him. I cannot help but think those old timers are in daily contact with Bill Clinton. I think everyone was pleasantly surprised when he showed up so well in polls. He looked to be a valuable asset for Hillary in touchy race situations. But instead, as I said yesterday, I said he was suffering from Narcissism. He has fallen in love with his success.

The Dems are not going to give him the nod and miss this “made in Heaven”chance of a lifetime to regain the presidency. A woman, yes, if we have to, but add a black to the ticket? Not in this decade. Race prejudice is only half the thickness of skin under the surface of 70% of Americans.

3) Shucks, they won all they asked for. OK, like Ivory Snow, 99.44%. Why not retire to savor the victories? States like my old Ky had only 2 or 3 abortion clinics in the entire state. Legal, yes! Available, NO! So who won?

[edit on 5/15/2007 by donwhite]

IMO Newt would be a disaster as a candidate he has a lot of baggage in his personal life which wouldn't matter if he wasn't apart of the corrupt elements of the American right who preach morality. Netw would appease the most hardcore (read brainwashed ) voters but he would lose to Hilary or Obama.

Moderate democratic voters wouldn't exactly be to keen on voting for some one who blames them for mass murder.

I want to say to the elite of this country - the elite news media, the liberal academic elite, the liberal political elite: I accuse you in Littleton…of being afraid to talk about the mess you have made, and being afraid to take responsibility for things you have done, and instead foisting upon the rest of us pathetic banalities because you don’t have the courage to look at the world you have created.”

On ABC’s This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Gingrich if he would apply those same words to the Virginia Tech tragedy. “Yes

source

I was able to watch the 2nd Republican debate this evening, hosted by Fox News. The spinners at Fox seemed hell bent on making sure that Giuliani came out on top. I personally thought the "second tier candidates" said more of what most people are actually thinking.

Ron Paul supporters might draw some inspiration from his 'rant' (that's what Fox calls it) about the reasons for Islamic hate aimed at the U.S. Rudy was very eager to jump on him, and I'm sure that'll be Hannity's favorite sound bite from the whole thing.

Overall, I think the questions were better this time. McCain's attempt to be glib crashed worse than the Hindenburg, but he seemed to be fully engaged. I was actually glad to see few references to Jerry Falwell.

What says the rest of you?

Bear in mind that I haven't seen the debate yet.

Why did terrorists attack the U.S. on 9/11?

According to Texas Congressman Ron Paul, "They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East."

Restrained, but clearly angry, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani jumped in, calling Paul's statement "extraordinary."

source

Scroll down for more random items .

While I respect the fact that Ron had enough brains to oppose the Iraq war I think that his reasoning in this case is naive at best. Although I don't think that the comment will do Ron campaign because he appeals mostly to conservative voters who are pretty much alienated by current thinking.


The first rumours of a conservative third party candidate are emerging.

New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg is prepared to spend an unprecedented $1 billion of his own $5.5 billion personal fortune for a third-party presidential campaign, personal friends of the mayor tell The Washington Times.
"He has set aside $1 billion to go for it," confided a long-time business adviser to the Republican mayor. "The thinking about where it will come from and do we have it is over, and the answer is yes, we can do it."
Another personal friend and fellow Republican said in recent days that Mr. Bloomberg, who is a social liberal and fiscal conservative, has "lowered the bar" and upped the ante for a final decision on making a run.

source

While having a billion dollars to play with is handy money by itself wont overcome the obstacles that those who favour the two party system have put in place. Unless you count TV ads you cant buy traditional media coverage. The internet and social networking would be the centre of any third party candidate.

The most Bloomberg could do is highlight the fact that the Republican party isnt fiscally conservative and its social policy's are retarded.

Just to finish on a lighter note its nice to see McCain 95 year old Mum is still up to appearing on Meet the Press.

"Since this is Mothers' Day, I brought my mother with me to 'Meet the Press,'" McCain told reporters. "She is 95 years young, and is my most constant and frequent critic. And she will give me advice and counsel quite often, and of course I love her and appreciate it."

source

Of course McCain Mum making an appearance could be used as argument that an ageing population will make the like of Social Security unsustainable but that debate is for another time.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by xpert11]

If he does in fact enter the Presidential race, Bloomberg could be the guy who actually does put a third party on the map...even if he has to build it from scratch. He's not "out there" like Perot was, and he does have a positive media image that he's beeing working long and hard to groom and grow.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
If he does in fact enter the Presidential race, Bloomberg could be the guy who actually does put a third party on the map...even if he has to build it from scratch. He's not "out there" like Perot was, and he does have a positive media image that he's beeing working long and hard to groom and grow.

Do you consider Ron Paul to be "out there " ?
I ask because the main stream media and Republican supporters seems to treat Paul as an outcast.
How would someone like Bloomberg overcome the obstacles to put a Conservative third party ?
A positive media image can disappear over night.

I expect Bloomberg - I forget his first name - knows Ross Perot well. I expect billionaires speak with each other at places we are never invited. They may meet 2 or 3 times a year at someone’s exclusive residence? Maybe play poker, bets in million dollar increments only. Aides to record wining and losing.

Ross Perot spent less than 20% - according to my memory - of that spent by either B41 or Clinton. $15 million to $75 million. But, Ross also got to appear on the League of Women Voters sponsored debates. After 1992, the Dems and GOP could not wait to chuck that scenario in place since 1960, and from now on run their own debates obviously limited to the major parties only, others need not apply. So much for democracy in action. Do you catch just a little of the causes for Iraqi resentment when we claim to be in the ME to “spread” democracy? Do you see why 80% of Iraqis want the US out of Iraq. ASAP!

Even on a 10X to 1 scale, a billion buys a lot even in 1992 dollars. Bloomberg has both time and money to make a Run for the Roses. Oops, remember I was born in Louisville, Ky. Excluded from the debates he needs some way to counter a format that the public eats like ice cream.

Well, Bloomberg has shown he is a shrewd man who can see further than most of us. Whether he can see further than Ross Perot is an open question. I keep reminding you fellow posters that America began to be a 2 party state in 1792, when the Federalists and Anti- Federalist clashed over George Washington’s bid for a second term. The Federalists have morphed into the current Democrats and the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans have morphed into today’s Republicans who owe their name at least to one man, Abraham Lincoln who founded the Republican as a third party. America’s only successful third party.

I don’t know how anti-democratic the 50 states’ laws on getting on the ballot are. You can be sure they are written to discourage and not to encourage independent candidates. Given their unbridled impulses there would be only one candidate on the ballot.

God Bless America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave! Yeah, go tell that to a Palestinian or an Iraqi or an Afghan or a Nigerian and etc and etc.

[edit on 5/16/2007 by donwhite]

Ron Paul's reamark has certainly provided conservative talk radio with a lot to wag about. I have no doubt that there is a significant segment of the population that thinks like he does. It's not big enough to get him elected, but he was certainly brave for saying it. I have no doubt that Rudy will milk it for all it is worth. He'd be silly not to.

I could see a third party party candidate splitting the Conservative vote in 2012. Of course if the Conservative vote is split the election would be gifted to the dems. The other obstacle third party face is that there is a perception that a vote for a third party is a wasted vote.
This perception exits in countries where the political system us geared up for equal representation so that gives an idea of how hard the perception is to change.

It occurs to me that I am constantly offering negative commentary or looking at the downside of every positive proposal made by others. I do not see myself as a pessimist, rather more as a realist. I admit there is a thin line between pessimism and realism. I would prefer to be remembered more as a gadfly than as a naysayer. Indeed, my password is “bluffly” which is the shortened version of Blue Tail Fly, a particularly aggravating if not downright aggressive fly native to the deep south. A fly that goes out of its way to bite you. A creature made popular by Burl Ives. But even blue tail flies make love and have many offspring. So I’m not all bad.

Although I'm not Catholic, I thought this confession was due and I offer it as sort of an oblique apology for not jumping on one or the other of the many bandwagons discussed on ATS. You guys keep up the good work! And I guess I’ll keep up my usual commentary, hopefully factual if not approving. And sometimes adding a bit of levity. A similar post made elsewhere.

[edit on 5/17/2007 by donwhite]