Canada's avro flying saucer

The Guardian
9-25-99
Canada's Avro 'Flying Saucer' - And German Disc Technology

In 1954, a memo was fired off to CIA department heads demanding intelligence on new 'saucer-like' flying machines being developed by Britain and Canada. So began the race to develop the most unlikely weapon of the Cold War.

Avro Canada is best remembered for the ill-fated Arrow, the supersonic jet fighter shelved by Ottawa in 1959. Now, newly-released CIA documents shed new light on another of the company's dreams - a flying saucer.

"The future will show whether the 'flying discs' are only the products of imagination or whether they are the results of a far-advanced German science which possibly, as well as the nearly finished atomic bombs, may have fallen into the hands of the Russians."

the strange thing is the avro car was invented in canada but the usa took the idea and stamped their logos on it. and i believe "Avro Canada" has been quiet for some long time now. maybe they are secretly developing newer more intelligent flying saucers?
what do you think?

www.virtuallystrange.net...


[edit on 22-12-2006 by conspiracymaster]

Originally posted by conspiracymaster
Canada's Avro 'Flying Saucer' -

It was a Coanda Effect flying saucer, powered by air...

AVRO SAUCER

It started out as a Canadian project and became a joint venture with the USA.

The media laughed and brushed it off as a glorified hover craft and for over 20 years it was used to debunk stories...

The concept was a prototype... it works... the thing is the Coanda effect works with air, water or plasma....

Air is useless to go into space or even high altitudes
water is heavy and not practicle [no lift]

But plasma... now thats a different story all you need is a small HE3 Levitating Dipole Fusion Reactor which is light weight, polution free and relatively safe to occupants near the reactor

Don't believe a Coanda Effect saucer works?

Coanda Effect UAV Test

How about a little anti gravity you can do in the shop?

Lifter Project Test

Don't believe the Air Force has worked up to the Plasma stage?
Remember all the talk about triangle shaped vehicles?

"Look Ma no ailerons and no engine ...."

Revolutionary Hypersonic Aerospace Vehicles With Plasma Actuators

Originally posted by conspiracymaster
the strange thing is the avro car was invented in canada but the usa took the idea and stamped their logos on it. and i believe "Avro Canada" has been quiet for some long time now. maybe they are secretly developing newer more intelligent flying saucers?
what do you think?

Why is it strange? The USAF just contracted the Canadian aerospace firm to build it for them. They were a very good company for there time.

And yes Avro Canada has been quiet for a long time, thanks to the Government of Canada, the company was shut down in the early 60's and many of the workers moved down to the states. Many of them went on to work for NASA, helping to design the Lunar Module and things like that. How I wish they were still around.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 22-12-2006 by jra]

So they basicly built this thing to do two things...

1. Debunk UFO sightings.

2. Try and make a UFO.

So the question is this. If UFOs don't exist, therefore something that does not exist cannot look like a disk, why go through the expense of creating something that looks like a disk to disprove something that does not exist in the first place?

Originally posted by whatukno
So they basicly built this thing to do two things...

1. Debunk UFO sightings.

2. Try and make a UFO.

No...

I suggest reading up on the program. Here are a few links to get you started.

www.avroarrow.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by whatukno
So they basicly built this thing to do two things...

Well the newspapers of the day had rumours that Canada and the US were working on Nazi tech and making saucers. All that fuss about Mt Rainier and Roswell...I still have some of the old newspaper clippings. I should see if I can find the archives online. I don't know if I can scan and post.. they should be public domain by now I will check.

UFO's is the wrong term in my opinion... we know what they are... Flying Discs some believe the Germans had them and we continued the program.

BTW Thanks JRA I did not have that one... nice stuff in there

I quote...

In April of 1950, the Right Hon Brooke Claxton, then Canadian minister of national defense, requested that the Joint Intelligence Council investigate the matter of flying saucers in earnest. A committee was to be established comprised of representatives from the Directorate of Air Intelligence, Naval Intelligence, Military Intelligence and Scientific Intelligence, with the Defence Research Board (DRB) acting as chair. Liaison was to be established with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Were flying saucers prototype weapons or extraterrestrial in origin? In a report sent to the Canadian DRB in 1953, the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) noted that German engineers had filed patents for flying-saucer-like craft they had supposedly developed towards the end of the war.

The CIA had interrogated a number of former German soldiers who claimed of having worked on saucer-like aircraft. As it turned out, members of the RCAF and National Research Council (NRC) had also interrogated some of these German engineers about this strange work.

In 1959, a book entitled, "German Secret Weapons of the Second World War," claimed the Foo Fighters were the product of Hitler's war machine. One individual who believed the Nazis had developed such, devices was aeronautical engineer John C. Frost of A.V. Roe Canada Limited. Avro, as the company came to be called, had succeeded in designing, building and flying the Jetliner, the first commercial, inter-city jet transport to fly in North America, back in 1949. Frost himself had been brought in from the U.K. to work on the CF-100 and now, the company was embarking on its most ambitious project, the CF-105 Arrow. A flying saucer seemed a natural progression for such an advanced high technology aeronautical firm.

I have been collecting stuff for years regarding the German and flying disk technology and the Antarctica connection. Not ready to post yet but you can always u2u me for details.

It's a sensitive subject though... anytime you need to use the N word

[edit on 22-12-2006 by zorgon]

There is a major fault with that last quote (even though it was a long time ago). The Avro flying saucer programme dates from BEFORE the Arrow, not after it, so how can the saucer have been seen as a 'progression' from the CF-105?

Anyhow here are a couple of titbits from this project people might find interesting;

The saucer in question was NOT the Avrocar, that was a different project entirely, this one was for a supersonic interceptor saucer and went by several names, Project Y, Avro Ace, Y2, Silver Bug and MX1794 amongst others. Niether was it entirely Canadian. There was strong influence from the parent Avro company in Manchester and there was intense interest by the RAF and RAE and was only with the agreemejnt and recommendation from such as Sir Roy Dobson etc that the US eventually was granted a full partnership. This was at a time of course when the project needed money and we all know who had plenty of that. This did lead to the US virtually taking control of Avro Canada's SPG, but again, this was before the Arrow was axed, not after it.

Here is an early drawing of the Project Y clearly showing the vents for the Radial Flow Gas Turbine that was to power it. At this stage it is not circular, but more spade like. The RFGT engine was actually structurally integrated into the airframe.



A bit later in its development here are some images of the Mock up in the factory. This was not just a basic mock up but was actually used for engine integration trials





When Frost decided to redesign this vehicle into a round saucer shape it was decided that the whole thing might as well be axed, especially as the engine was part of the airframe and redundancy in case of faults or replacements were never going to be an option.

It was at this point that the US came on board and frost also abandoned the RFGT altogether and redesigned the, now Y2 or Silverbug, to use conventional jet engines, arranged radially breathing from a central intake and venting through the vanes. These could be accomodated in self contained units that could be removed for mainenance or replaced completely, as shown in this diagram



With the new impetus this brought the programme continuied to flourish and this is an impression of a Silverbug carrying out a 'slash attack' on a Tu 95, a tactic proposed by Frost himself who insisted no harm would come to the saucer or its pilot. Well, thats all right then



This project evolved into the MX 1794 (a purely US designation for what was basically the same concept) and this fake (repeat FAKE) photo shows how it might have looked on test.



I hope you found this post informative.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by waynos]

i remember seeing that on digg a while back doesnt it use a sort of tornado to lift itself

Can anyone colaborate on the information we have derived here. I mean, I find a lot of this stuff conceivable myself.
But really, I think the U.S. picked up on the concept led by Frost. I think that Frost was probably on to something, but maybe didn't have the resources necessary. Maybe money, manpower, secrecy, and intelligable minds necessary to build a think tank capable of realizing this idea. I think that's what the U.S. did or attempted to do. I think they provided him with these things but maybe they phased him out over time because they needed him at one point and perhaps he outlived his resourcefullness. I think all the other moch ups where spin offs, and yeah I think some of them were made for purposes of disinformation. I think that the U.S. may have taken pride in the fact that others tried to duplicate the technology and totaly worked it in the wrong direction. I don't think the U.S. is one of those countries that goes in circles trying to figure out how things work. If they don't they find someone who can. That's what they did it seems. Then they probably found out more things with other intelligent minds, who knows what kind... I don't think we've tipped the iceberg, or can.

But I would like to see a colaboration. What can we offer that would bring us closer to the understanding of a true project, a sucessfull one. I find this fascinating.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

As part of the Boundary Layers and Hypersonics program, AFRL conducted a wind tunnel test to evaluate the feasibility of using plasma actuators for airframe flight control. In AFRL’s Mach 5 Plasma Channel wind tunnel, engineers used a strong electric field to ionize air around an air vehicle model to create plasma. The plasma-heated air successfully exerted force on the model and demonstrated that the plasma actuator concept is a viable area for further study and development. The program focuses on characterizing, predicting, and controlling high-speed fluid dynamic phenomena, including boundary layer transition; shock/boundary layer and shock/shock interactions; and other airframe propulsion integration phenomena such as real-gas effects, plasma aerodynamics, magneto-hydrodynamics, and high-speed flow heat transfer. (Mr. R. Kimmel, AFRL/VAAA, (937) 656-7868)