Reincarnation and the bible ... an old horse flogged to death - repeatedly

Reincarnation? Oh no! It's You!........again

May I add a note on the supposed quotation from Origen? The Fathers universally reject transmigration as a teaching, and other citations from Origen make it clear that he did not hold this view.

Originally posted by Toltec
In the third century A.D., the theologian Origen, one of the fathers of the early Christian Church, and its most accomplished Biblical scholar, wrote, "By some inclination toward evil, certain souls ... come into bodies, first of men; then through their association with the irrational passions, after the allotted span of human life, they are changed into beasts, from which they sink to the level of plants. From this condition they rise again through the same stages and are restored to their heavenly place."

Here are some citations from his "Commentary on Matthew," written late in his life.

In this place, it does not appear to me that by Elijah the soul is spoken of, lest I should fall into the dogma of transmigration, which is foreign to the Church of God and not handed down by the Apostles, nor anywhere set forth in the Scriptures. For observe, [Matthew] did not say, in the "soul" of Elijah, in which case the doctrine of transmigration might have some ground, but "in the spirit and power of Elijah". (Book 13, chapter 1)

Let others who are strangers to the doctrine of the Church assume that souls pass from the bodies of men into the bodies of dogs. We do not find this at all in the Divine Scriptures. (Book 11, chapter 17)

What credibility, forsooth, has the erroneous opinion, whether of Herod or of some of the people, that John and Jesus were not two persons, but that it was one and the same person John who rose from the dead after that he had been beheaded and was called Jesus? some one might say, however, that Herod and some of those of the people held the *false dogma of the transmigration of souls into bodies*, in consequence of which they thought that the former John had appeared again by a fresh birth, and had come from the dead into life as Jesus. (Book 10, chapter 20)

And from De Principiis 1.8.4:

We think that those views are by no means to be admitted, which some are wont unnecessarily to advance and maintain, viz., that souls descend to such a pitch of abasement that they forget their rational nature and dignity, and sink into the condition of irrational animals, either large or small; and in support of these assertions they generally quote some pretended statements of Scripture...

I note that the statement attributed above to Origen has no reference attached to it; elsewhere I see a reference of De Principiis III.5, which, however does not seem to contain these words. Possibly it may indeed come from De Principiis. But Origen taught philosophy as part of his day job. There are some odd statements to be found in his works, which probably relate to this secular occupation.

I hope that helps!

All the best,

Roger Pearse


[edit on 25/4/2005 by roger_pearse]

[edit on 25/4/2005 by roger_pearse]

[edit on 25/4/2005 by roger_pearse]

Hmm, the name John as being important to the Illuminati...

Yeah, I'd say there's a high probability on that one. Johnson...

Hmm, every dead body that we don't even know who it is for one second (any violent/accidental death) is called a John. John Doe.

Every person who goes to the temple for sex is a John, but the temple is a prostitute (some things don't change).

in fact, where the name Jesus seems too extraordinary to give to a child, too much expectation, John must be the most popular friggin name out there.

Lots of Oannes worshippers, I guess...

you may be destroying your own beliefs but ya cant destroy other peoples!Maybe you should work on your faith a bit, gives less questions to ask.

reply to post by FreeMason


The quote in question is refering to Herod's misthought that Jesus is John the Baptist who was misthought to be Elijah. This is cleared up later, in Mark, by Jesus when he asks the Disciples who they think he is.

Mark 8:27-30 "Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, 'Who do people say I am?' They replied, 'Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.' 'But what about you?' he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Peter answered, 'You are the Christ.' Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him."