Why were Greeks considered so great in middle age Europe?

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posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
'Man know thyself' Quote is attributed to Socrates but that saying was written all over Egyptian templs 500-700 years before Socrates.


How about a little proof?



Also the discovery of the Atom is attributed to Greeks but the Egyptians discovered that atoms are the smallest particles of life. They even named a god after the little chaotic beings and the gods name was "Atum"


Wrong, he was also known by the names Temu or Tem. He was not named for the littel chaotic beings.



Astronomy is Egyptian and Sumerian.

Wrong again, it was started with the the Babylonians and Chaldeans. They were the first to track the stars and give names and stories to them.



Every historian will agree with me when I say the Egyptian civilization fathered the Greek one.


I won't.


BTW your whitewashed history comment was pathetic. Comments like that belong in the Pit, not here.

[edit on 21/7/04 by COOL HAND]




posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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How about a little proof?


Here we go with this "proof" #. Read a book.



Wrong, he was also known by the names Temu or Tem. He was not named for the littel chaotic beings.


Democritus is credited by Aristotle for discovering atoms but the took it from the egytpian God Atum who conceived nine children (IE nine planets). And yes, he was named after atoms.



Wrong again, it was started with the the Babylonians and Chaldeans. They were the first to track the stars and give names and stories to them.


I'm wrong? wtf? Stop trying to make yourself look good by making me look bad. The Sumerians were the first to ever engage in astronomy and guess what- the Sumerians were the first civilization on earth. Where do you think Planet X or Nibiru came from? The Chaldeans? Get out of here



Every historian will agree with me when I say the Egyptian civilization fathered the Greek one.



I won't.


Because your not one and you don't read obviously.





BTW your whitewashed history comment was pathetic. Comments like that belong in the Pit, not here.


Like I care... sue me.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
Here we go with this "proof" #. Read a book.

Wow, that was a very adult response. Guess you did not happen to have a source handy for that comment.



Democritus is credited by Aristotle for discovering atoms but the took it from the egytpian God Atum who conceived nine children (IE nine planets). And yes, he was named after atoms.

Where did you get that crap from? Wouldn't atoms have been named after Atum? I think you are a little confused.



I'm wrong? wtf? Stop trying to make yourself look good by making me look bad. The Sumerians were the first to ever engage in astronomy and guess what- the Sumerians were the first civilization on earth. Where do you think Planet X or Nibiru came from? The Chaldeans? Get out of here

Do a little research into the History of Astronomy and you will see that I am right. I was just trying to prevent ignorance.

You might also want to look into how much the Chinese influenced astronomy while you are at it.



Every historian will agree with me when I say the Egyptian civilization fathered the Greek one.

Because your not one and you don't read obviously.


Actually, I am one. Sorry I do not read that Rastafari Times like you.



BTW your whitewashed history comment was pathetic. Comments like that belong in the Pit, not here
Like I care... sue me.



Ridiculous. You sound like the Colonel reincarnated.

Deny ignorance, don't wallow in it.

[edit on 21/7/04 by COOL HAND]



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me how by reading one book people become experts all of sudden. Please do not resort to the findings of one historian in condemning a whole civilization. You might like the Mesopotamian or the Egyptian civilization but do not dicredit one of the greatest ancient people- the Greeks.

Please remember historians pertain to various schools of thought which push their own agendas, for example a historian with an egyptology background would be more inclined to push the egyptian history agenda. Also dont forget that history departments always compete for funding, the higher the standing of the historian, the more responsibilities he will have within a department thus a different agenda.

Just remember reading a couple of books does not and should not give you the right to discredit anyone let alone a whole civilazation.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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Quote: "Astronomy is Egyptian and Sumerian."

& Babylonian.

Illmatic67 - there is no doubt that the Greek Civilization/Culture had a Root in the Egyptian/Khemetic Culture - Much of their knowledge of Medicine came from there - but the Greeks were Incredible Philosophers in their OWN RIGHT. Also read your own quote above. The Greeks also had Roots in the Persian/Sumerian Culture. Much of their knowledge of Astronomy Came from here - as a matter of fact the Egyptians might have learned what the knew from the Sumerians. Don't forget about Sumerian Religion. Don't forget that "Alexander the Great's" Empire extended into the Far East - All the way to NORTH INDIA. This would mean that they were also in contact with Aryans.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 04:57 AM
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Totaly agree- yes SOME ideas were taken from the Egyptians- but like someone else said they were philosophers.
I thought in history you read more then one source to come to a conclusion- maybe you need to start reading a few more historical texts.

Again do you have any proof that the Greeks stole everything- anywebsites- i think i have asked you about 3 times please give more information.

Sometimes people just don't wanna listen....



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Where did you get that crap from? Wouldn't atoms have been named after Atum? I think you are a little confused.


Crap? Your the fakest historian I have ever heard of. Democritus is credited by discovering the Atom by Aristotle and Atum, a god in Egyptian mythology, is where the idea of atoms came from.


Do a little research into the History of Astronomy and you will see that I am right. I was just trying to prevent ignorance.

You might also want to look into how much the Chinese influenced astronomy while you are at it.


History of Astronomy? I have taken that course in college. The Sumerians were the first and most advanced astronomers next to the Zoroastrians in the history of the world. They were far more advanced than the Chinese. Read something.




Actually, I am one. Sorry I do not read that Rastafari Times like you.


No your not one. Rastafari Times? You say I am ignorant? Your nothing but a fake historian and a hypocrite.




[edit on 7-22-2004 by Illmatic67]



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
No your not one. Rastafari Times? You say I am ignorant? Your nothing but a fake historian and a hypocrite.



You always seem to retreat to being rude- WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES????

you havent backed up anything you have said- yet you are so sure you are right!?



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
Crap? Your the fakest historian I have ever heard of. Democritus is credited by discovering the Atom by Aristotle and Atum, a god in Egyptian mythology, is where the idea of atoms came from.

Well at least you have heard of me.

Here is the history of the atom:
History

1. In ancient Greek philosophy the word atom was used to describe the smallest bit of matter that could be conceived (i.e. synthesized either physically or chemically).
2. This "fundamental unit," to use the present-day term for this concept, was thought of as indestructible; in fact, the Greek word for atom, atomos, means "not divisible." Around 460 BC, a Greek philosopher named Democritus suggested that everything in the world was made up of these tiny units that he called atomos. His concept of the atom led him to create the particle theory, which states that "atoms are the building blocks of all matter." ( This theory did not gain general acceptance until the 19th century however.)
3. Knowledge about the size and nature of the atom grew slowly throughout the centuries when people were content merely to speculate about it.

Hmm, fail to see any mention of Atum there. Perhaps you can provide a different source for your claim?



History of Astronomy? I have taken that course in college. The Sumerians were the first and most advanced astronomers next to the Zoroastrians in the history of the world. They were far more advanced than the Chinese. Read something.

What college was this at? When was this course taken? Might want to do some of your own research on the subject of Chinese astronomy and see for yourself.

Here read this:
CHINESE ASTRONOMY



No your not one. Rastafari Times? You say I am ignorant? Your nothing but a fake historian and a hypocrite.

Yes I am, I even have a degree to prove it. Do you?



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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The only reason you have a degree is because your older than I am. Don't get your head gassed up by just having a degree, it doesn't mean anything.

And this isn't a ENC1102 paper. I'm not going to cite my sources. I can give you a list of books to read if you want them to whoever asked for my sources.


Hmm, fail to see any mention of Atum there. Perhaps you can provide a different source for your claim?


That definition is taken from out of a whitewashed history book/dictionary.

If you want to understand what I am saying which I doubt you ever will you have to read history that is untold. Let me teach you something about the Mystery religion of the Ancient Egyptians.

The Egyptian cosmology is in three different parts. Part 1 has to do with the Gods of chaos, part 2 deals with the Gods of order and arrangement in creation and part 3 deals with the Primate of the Gods, through whose knowledge the creation was completed and successful.

In part 1 the chaos is represented by PTAH, the primate of the Gods, who emerges from the waters Nun in a form of the hill which is the called the RISEN LAND. Atum or ATOM, the sun God, then joins Ptah. He also emerges from the waters Nun.

That's part 1

The second part of the creation story is the description of four pairs of male/female gods in forms of frogs and serpents.

Their names are Nun and Naunet (Primeval ocean and primeval matter)
Huh and Hauhet (The Illimitable and the Boundless)
Kuk and Kauket (Darkness and Obscurity)
Amon and Amaunet (Hidden and Concealed Ones)

That's part 2

In part 3 then comes the creation

The same first pair of the pre creation gods are together present with Ptah who is the word of the Gods along with Atum who sits with him on the RISED LAND.

Atum then proceeds with the creation having drawing powers from Ptah.

He names four pairs of parts of his body, which become gods, and in this way, eight Gods are created, who together with himself become nin Gods in one family or Godhead and this is called the Ennead.


From this understanding of the Mystery Religion, of which Socrates himself was initiated into and he even hints to it before his death, the Greeks came up with the concept of the Atom from the God of creation Atum.

Out of chaos, Atum created the universe.

Of course none of this is written in history books. They just want us to believe Greeks did everything first without asking questions and that's that.

All of that is in Stolen Legacy

Also it's worth noting that Greece was first civilized by Egyptian colonies.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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Greeks had literature, and the Europeans didnt care for them during the Middle Ages but during the Renaissance . The word means revival in French. Europeans became interested in ancient texts that the Greeks, and Romans wrote. The stories, the architecture, etc.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
The only reason you have a degree is because your older than I am. Don't get your head gassed up by just having a degree, it doesn't mean anything.

So, does that mean you accept the fact that I am a hisorian?



And this isn't a ENC1102 paper. I'm not going to cite my sources. I can give you a list of books to read if you want them to whoever asked for my sources.


If your sources were credible then you would be able to point out where they exist on the Internet, as I did. You should at least be able to find a paper on the Internet that uses your books as a source.



That definition is taken from out of a whitewashed history book/dictionary.


There you go again with that whitewash history crap. If you are going to make this a racial issue then move it to the Pit. Othewise keep your ignorance to yourself.


If you want to understand what I am saying which I doubt you ever will you have to read history that is untold. Let me teach you something about the Mystery religion of the Ancient Egyptians.


Can you provide any information about this Mystery Religion that we can see with our own eyes?



Also it's worth noting that Greece was first civilized by Egyptian colonies.


Greece was brought about as a result of Europeans moving to a better climate. Do some research on that and see for yourself.




[edit on 22/7/04 by COOL HAND]



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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CoolHand, I respect your patience on this thread so far. Having a history degree myself, I understand where you are coming from. Our friend Illuminati forgets that for every book he reads there are ten who put forward other theories.

We are all here to deny ignorance and explore alternative theories and I am all for that but please lets not, because we've read a couple of books, profess we are an authority on issues as complex as ancient civilizations and their origin. One more thing, if you look hard enough in the ancient literature, you will find that most ancient civilizations were affected from each other in different ways.

Two examples for you- It could be argued that the Minoans heavily influenced the Egyptians and the Phoenicians in regards to seafaring as their civilization was highly advanced in that regard.

Furthermore, we seem to confuse science with religion, The Greeks produced scientists whereas the Egyptians through their religion explored science.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 06:20 AM
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The idea that 'atom' comes from 'Atum' is totally wrong. The word 'atom' comes from Greek word 'ATOMO' (ancient Greeks only wrote capital letters), which is a synthetic word: it consists of the letter 'A', which means 'not', and the word 'TOMH' (TOMEE in english) that means 'cut': 'not' + 'cut', i.e. indivisible. Therefore, it could not have come from 'Atum'.

Actually, the ancient Greek history starts before ancient Aigypt, and before Sumerians.

The oldest Greek history recordings are of Hermes the Trismegistus, dated 9000 BC.

Although it is not taught in schools...



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:59 AM
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Stolen Legacy (or Mythical History?) Did the Greeks Steal Philosophy from the Egyptians?


Anyone who has studied ancient Mediterranean history will realize immediately that these assertions are untrue, both in general and in particular. Anyone who has studied the works of Plato and Aristotle, even in translation, will wonder why their instructors never referred to the Egyptian background of the philosophical works they were studying. Anyone familiar with the history of ancient philosophy will know that the "Egyptian" Mystery System James describes in his book is in fact based on an 18th-century French reconstruction of Neo-Platonic philosophy, which contains a few Egyptian elements, but is fundamentally Greek.

To anyone who is unfamiliar with Egyptian or Greek history, however, or the works of the Greek philosophers, James' argument seems coherent and plausible, because it appears to be laid out in an informed and scholarly fashion, with copious references to ancient source materials and modern historical studies.



In this paper I have had space only to treat some of the many fraudulent claims made in Stolen Legacy. Many more examples could be produced: for example, James insists that the Greeks did not win their war against Persia in 490 and 480-79 BCE, as has always been thought, but states (without producing evidence of any kind) that the battles of Marathon and Salamis were indecisive. James misrepresents history in this way in order to depict the ancient Greeks as a quarrelsome and chaotic people, incapable of producing philosophy, which (according to James) "requires an environment which is free from disturbance and worries" (p. 24). Such misinformation suggests that Stolen Legacy belongs on the shelf with other hate literature, such as The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, recently brought to public consciousness through Louis Farrakhan's tirades against Jews and all things Jewish.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Just a few comments.

I dont think someone can say that a civilization "stole" non material things, as knowledge and science, from another civilization. That is the way the world works, people influence people.

I dont think the greeks or the egitians discovered the atom, they may have a theory about them, but they naver had proof.

Also, Atum in portuguese means tuna, and that is what i am going to eat at dinner, so maybe we stole the fish from the greeks ...



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 11:24 PM
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Caucasian people speak about Greece quite often as if that is where their culture originated, but I thought their culture originated in the Caucus Mountains...



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 02:37 AM
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Actually - yes the Aryan Civilization began East of Greece - The Caucus Mountains are East of Greece. Persia & India are East of Greece. Those Civilizations Predate the Hebrew Civilization. Remember they would Consider the Sumerians & Babylonians as Pagan Heathens. Remember that the Geeks - under Alexander the Great - Conquered these lands - as Far East as Northern India. They then Assimilated other Cultures & Religions & Technologies into their own. Also Race mixing definitely occurred - it would have been unavoidable. So yes the Greeks are Aryan - but can & do also display Semitic characteristics.





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