Survival Gripes

Is all this talk of survival really nothing more than grown men and a few women dreaming about having to survive in any posible scenario. There seems to be lots of talk about gun collections and kit but has anyone thought that in real survival situations you are not equipped with guns, gadgets, food and water.

I think the scenario that most survivalists use is the one of fighting an invasion/insurection. Well what about surving a plane crash or being adrift at sea, or in a famine /disease plagued land. There are those who have to survive in these real life scenarios and they are not equipped with a store full of what they require for that survival.

Its sounds more like how I would survive in the comfort of my own home, the great survival stories dont happen in somone's home. So is this talk of survival just a big kids game where those with the biggest gun collections etc. win a prize. How would you survive as a Jew in wartime Germany, how would you survive as a black man in 19th Century America, how would you survive as an starving Ethiopian. Real lives, real issues, true survivors.

First things first. This may be a game to you but its not a game to ME. Honestly if you don't want to take the subject seriously then don't browse and don't post. We are here to talk Preparedness AKA survival, not be insulted by you. We discuss all things related to being prepared for long term short term survival. Weather that be related to enemy invasion, or short term storm. What else did you think you would find in the SURVIVAL forums. We are taking nothing away from the poor unfortunate souls trapped in desolate situations. We are just educating ourselves to help us live in almost any situation. If you had browsed a little more you would see we discuss a lot of different topics not just guns.

For some of us Survival is a very real situation. I survived two and a half weeks in the Amazon when a trip went sour. Because I had the right equipment and, more importantly, knowledge, I managed to live off the land and travel through the jungle to where I could find "civilization." I have also been in situations where I had to care for a severely wounded companion while trying to survive, living off the land, and again having to get to civilization and more in-depth hospital care.

The people in here who wish to discuss survival situations are only being prudent. While I totally agree that for far too many it is a gun fantasy, who only want an excuse for having assault weapons, for others it is a very real preparation for potential difficulties. Those that were prepared for disasters, such as Katrina and major California earthquakes, managed to fare far better that the sheep who waited for government help, which is generally lacking. There is potential for further terrorist attacks, dirty bombs, bird flu pandemics, weather disasters, etc. Even the US government recommends various disaster preparations.


There is nothing wrong with following the old scout motto of "Be prepared"

I'd be wiling to bet that the people still working on defending their prized possessions with firepower will ultimately die for those things. I'm not saying that guns aren't a good idea, a good hunting rifle wil get you a season's worth of meat for only a few rounds spent if you're good.

Assault rifles and 10,000 rounds will be fine if you're a fredom fighter, engaging in combat ops, but for survival, i don't waste my time carrying weaponry, i carry tools. An AK with 10 mags strapped to you is of less use in survival (not conflict) than a lever action 3030 or 30-06 and a box of rounds.

The idiots who live the rambo fantasy won't last long, and should TEOTWAWKI happen, most of the gun nuts will shoot each other fighting over an ammo cache while the real survivors will be deep in the bush waiting for all the crazies to depopultae themselves.

Also, that's not to say that i'm against fighting either, but that there is a difference between hiding in the wilderness or hiding behind a trash bin with a mac11 getting redy to ambush NATO troops during global martial law. Sure, i'll be down to fight the power should it come to a point that we can really defeat the beast of babylon, but i don't confuse that with survival, that's warfare.

Maybe we need an Insurgency Tactics forum

You certainly have the right name Angry American, the reason I posted this thread is life is not as you plan it and many, mainly Americans seem obsessed with weapons and fighting. You talk about survival from a very narrow perspective and as if you would have control of it, well you dont.

I have stockpiles of food, medical supplies etc. in my house but they are not much use to me if I was lost in Africa. If you want a real scenario try this. Martial law is imposed in the US, all owners of guns are told to handover their weapons and ammo, people with stocks of food are told to do the same. American people are law abbiding ciitizens are they not, most will hand over what there told too, they dont want to go to prison.

Its no good saying you wont do it because people are already giving up their freedoms to easily, many are just playing the Rambo fantasy. There is a limit to what one can do and thats it. It is intersesting to note though that many see the prerequisite to survival is lots of guns and ammo, is that not the opposite to survival.

It's actually a good point you make MM. Guns aren't the beat all if and when the world goes to heck.

My stance on it is there's no harm in being prepared and having a plan in the event that an emergency happens. Be it an earthquake, flood or some truly devastating event like multiple nukes...

I count myself amongst the ones that IS able to manage without all my doo dads and gear.

I know how to get gear and supplies without a gun or even a knife. Most people I'd like to think, that have invested some real thought and made sure they learned continuously about survival techniques...could if they had to make do with little more than the clothes on their backs.

I have no gun and no intention to get one. Then again I'm canadian LOL it's not really a pre-requisite for us

I thinkyou are a bit erroneous in your labeling of "survivalists" as "rambo and ramboette" wanna bes though.

It's not just about the gear and nifty supplies...it's the mind set as well. The knowledge that in a really terrible situation we know what we CAN do..we know our limits and faults and we've (I'd hope most of us have) considered what might happen if we were unable for whatever reason to reach our gear.

I consider myself a survivalist but you know I have a life outside of being prepared. I don't sit around waiting, gear at my side, for some cataclysmic event to happen so I can use all my "cool" stuff.

I have to work, go to school, take care of a kid and cats, pay bills...blah blah blah. The survival prep is because I need to know I have taken measures to be prepared for a variety of things. Especially as a single mother...no man around to save us when things get tough...you learn to improvise and you learn to do a heck of a lot on your own.The knowledge isn't just applicable in a Situation X...it's useful all through my life. Being absolutely broke for most of it has actually helped as well...being able to settle for far less and/or nothing, is a great skill when suddenly all the excess and luxuries are gone.

The gear isn't all there is to it. Knowing what to do and being confident enough to do it is just as important.

Sorry you see it the way you do...I get tired of all the guns and ammo talk sometimes but nearly all are knowledgeable and /or skilled in far more. I think it may be a fairly small part of the picture you've seen or looked into.

My only real beef with the whole thing is that it's mainly geared to MEN surviving LOL...face it...you guys wouldn't last a day without us chicks

Hope that offers you at least an "unarmed" insight into it...for what it matters

Cheers.

Hi JG, I'm not knocking survivalists because I think will all fight to survive everyday of the week, right now I'm fighting illness and injury others are fighting for their next meal and people in Iraq are fighting for their lives, or as in your case surviving as a single mom

Its an issue I take very seriously and as you correctly pointed out its not just about the material issue's. The biggest survival asset to us all is education, knowing how to adapt and change under any conditions is not about your kit but your mind and how you use your knowledge.

And as a chick dont you rely on the men folk to get rid of that big spider or flood darkness with light because women are scared of these things.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
You certainly have the right name Angry American, the reason I posted this thread is life is not as you plan it and many, mainly Americans seem obsessed with weapons and fighting. You talk about survival from a very narrow perspective and as if you would have control of it, well you dont.

Your right on one count nobody has control over life. If you put the Tools into place including firearms aswell as knowledge you stand a better chance of coming out nearer the top. actually You may take my talk as a narrow perspective but its not. I will repeat again, we talk more then just about guns read the forums there is alot here outside of guns.

I have stockpiles of food, medical supplies etc. in my house but they are not much use to me if I was lost in Africa.

If your lost in Africa without your preparidness tools then shame on you for not being prepaired and going there anyway.

If you want a real scenario try this. Martial law is imposed in the US, all owners of guns are told to handover their weapons and ammo, people with stocks of food are told to do the same. American people are law abbiding ciitizens are they not, most will hand over what there told too, they dont want to go to prison.

There would be nothing to gain by taking away the food thats not a real scenario its bait and I wont bite.

Its no good saying you wont do it because people are already giving up their freedoms to easily, many are just playing the Rambo fantasy.

People will give up some freedoms to be safe yes but not all. Yes some do play Rambo fantasy. I ask again have you not read these forums. I will say it again there is a lot more here then gun talk, get oiff the anti gun kick. need some examples fine follow the links.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'
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I could go on but you are fixated on the fact that There has been some talk of firarms so it wont do me any good. There is alot of good information here you can either add to it take knowledge from it or leave it. Like it or not Firearms a one of many survival tools. So if you dont want to read abut firearms dont do it, but dont set there and say that because we do talk about a survival tools that were play Rambo its not fair and its a very narrow view to a broad picture.

One of the better threads that discusses things beyond guns and high end tools is the NWO Survival Planning thread, its rather long and has some areas where the conversation degrades slightly, but definitely a good show of the thinking of those truly committed to the idea of survival. Shame the thread is stuck over in the New World Order forum, perhaps the mods can include it over here somehow, or maybe move it since the bulk of the posts are more survival orientated than NWO related?

thanks for that Helig I'll check it out.

I've tried to start a couple of "survival threads" on other topics, for the purpose of taking discussion beyond confrontation.

While I agree that a lot of my fellow posters seem to be fixated on the "red dawn scenario," I read here mainly to get insight into what people who are WAY more into to it than I am have come up with. I've found a few ideas I can use; hopefully I've provided a few as well.

I've been in a couple of survival situations, living and driving thorugh very rural areas, back before cell phones were common. In both situations, I was caught off guard by a sudden autumn snowstorm.

I'm working on a "survival game/ create your own adventure" that I hope to post here for some of the same reasons I think you started this post.

,

You'll have to remember that some of us are in very different situations and locations.

For me the Russian Invasion is still a valid threat, since i live 20km from the their border... But for me that's not a survival situation since i and 90% of out male population would be called into service...

But i do prepare for other issues, like pandemias, internal collapses, russians migrating west after some disaster (and our goverment being the socialists they are do nothing about it)...

The reason that firearms come up so often in this forum is that, like it or not, they are the most likely thing to get you through a tough spot. If a pandemic occurs, there will be looting. If that looting happens to target you, well, you can hope the looters leave you alive and well, just a fugee with no supplies...or you can 'dissuade' them the old fashioned way.

Your plane crashes in the middle of the forest. WAnt protein? Use that .22 or 30-30 to get a meal on your plate that'll be moderately healthy. It's not all about two-legged rodents, but it's definitely a factor.

Maybe it's just me, but I know I personally don't have much faith in the general population. Hate to say it, but people are generally greedy, malicious, and vicious. I don't want to fall victim to the various predations of others, and I don't intend to go quietly into the night.

DE

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LOL MagicMush....nah as a chick I rely on the men WITH the GUNS *wink wink* I can see the value of firearms in a situation where society decays right before out eyes...as has been pointed out being able to defend that wonderful mind that has the knowledge to survive is key as well. A sharp mind is useless ina dead body.

Also a little point to make about being female. A gun'd do me more harm that it may good...men in this society still far outnumber women and in a major emergency womenfolk can pretty much expect to transcend all that women's liberation froohawhaw and find themselves right back where we were a little more than a century ago. A commodity.

I don't know how many women are prepared for that to be honest. I'm not above it personally if it means survival for the short or long term. Having a gun'd likely see me having it used on me...best to go into it with what I DO have as a weapon...ME. Women have been surviving like this and still do it today...darfur for example...why risk being killed for sex if you can just play nice and offer it...get protection in the same right. It sounds crass and I love that many die hard women's libers would choose death over allowing such a thing...the trade off of warm flesh for life seems a small price to pay if you have nothing else to barter. Sex as a weapon of female design is nothing new at all.

Just wanted to put that out there. Mind set, supplies, gear, weapons (not just the gun variety but also guiles) are all factors for survival. Taken out of context they can all sustain life if the person is determined enough.

Had I a gun I can safely say that it would in all likelyhood wind up in the hands of someone meaning to do me harm. I may be a tough chick but still...I'm not going out without a fight...even if that fight means passive resistance.

I could go on all day I took the time to list each thread with URL for the survival forums. I can post the rest of the non gun related threads if you like. I only did a hanfull. I also did the gun related threads. all 6 or 7 of em I can post those to if you like. My point is dont genralise. Guns are a part of our world. They can be included in all survival situation weather you like it or not. you seem to be thew one keeping focus on guns not us were here for education and to educate. nuff said on this subject

Scenario, JG:

Me, six-foot-four of soldier. You...all short-like and of considerably weaker muscles. If it comes to hand to hand, I will generally win. However, if you have a firearm, all things are now equal. You can shoot me no matter how strong I am, and I'll go down screaming bloody murder. The trick is, don't let bad people get close.

DE

Although the self-defense aspect generally revolves around two-legged varmints, in a survival situation, you'd be wise to have a firearm around for the four-legged kind as well. Growing up in the 80s, I've seen packs of wild dogs attack half grown calves. And no, they were not coyotes. This area barely qualified as rural, with about 150,000 people within a 30 mile radius.

There could be literally millions of starving former pet dogs out there in a catastrophe, depending on the scale of the disaster. I really do not want to meet up with a dozen half starved mutts armed with a sharp stick. Unlike truly wild animals, they generally do NOT fear humans.

Snakes, coyotes, bobcats, black bears, and cougars are also threats of varying degrees in this area (and throughout much of the United States). Unlike dogs, all of these instinctively fear humans and usually won't attack unless provoked, cornered, or startled. That said, I really wouldn't want to meet up with any of them in the wilderness.