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Survival Gripes

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posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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Well see that's the thing...pack mentality usually follows in a severe situation and the likelihood of of coming into conflict with a solitary creep is not nearly as good as running into a conflict with a group of creeps. A gun is a sure fire (punny) way to irritate an already testy group with spoilages and plundering in mind.

It's the same goal - fight or flight...just a different approach based on a multitude of factors.

I'll remain gunless ...and as an aside...up close and personal is often more dangerous for the attacker that's why guns are used. hand to hand means more chance of severe injury...which ultimately leads to death in a situation where hospitals are no longer in operation...an up close and rather personal attack if required can be extremely effective. Women have known this for years




posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Your best bet against multiple attackers, human or animal, is to flee and avoid conflict as possible. That's always true, even against a single attacker. While I view a firearm as a near-necessity in a survival situation, I also view it as a last resort in self defense. In case of animal attack, you are extremely unlikely to escape without a fight. They are easily fast enough to overtake a human.

Hand-to-hand is definitely more dangerous for the attacker, but its actually more dangerous for the defender as well. The odds of injury in a hand-to-hand scenario, even if you 'win', are nearly 100%.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Is all this talk of survival really nothing more than grown men and a few women dreaming about having to survive in any posible scenario. There seems to be lots of talk about gun collections and kit but has anyone thought that in real survival situations you are not equipped with guns, gadgets, food and water.


MM, while your concern is appreciated, it is unneccessary and largely unwarranted. Yes, there is a lot of talk of guns on some of the survival threads, but considering that the absolutely basic tenant of survival is, well, surviving, and guns are the "great equalizer" among people of differing physical capabilities, it is inevitable that they will be mentioned.

However, if you actually read the various threads, rather than passing casual judgment, you will see that thread after thread stresses, over and over, that physical fitness, food, and water, should be your primary concerns. After that, it's largely dependent on your location, and the various statistical probabilities of what could happen to you.

We didn't start these forums to fulfill some sort of fantasy about a post-apocolyptic world. We started these forums because we know for a fact that sometimes bad things happen to good people, and many times these things happen on a large scale. For instance, Hurricane Katrina. A lot of people died there due to ignorance.

Maybe one day, because of the knowledge or ideas someone picked up from an ATS survival forum, their life will be saved, or they will save the life of someone else. That, ultimately, is the dream we commonly share, and I'm sorry if you got a different impression from the posts.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 01:10 PM
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What survival means to me is making it through a natural disaster without asking anyone for help.

Just earlier this month my area (St. Louis Mo.) was hit by a major ice storm, 400,000 homes without power for up a week.

Not, me I went out to the garage and fired up the gererator while my neighbors were in the dark.

(I did run extension cords to my neighbors on both sides and I was able to keep them from going to shelters or renting a hotel room for a week)

Survival to me is being prepared to protect your family at all costs, having the items and supplies to last at least a few weeks and not to end up in a shelter or in line begging for food.

Just look at the headlines today hundreds die in the Northwest trying to warm their homes using porpane gas bbq grills and charcoal grills.

Deperate measures in tough times can be corrected with a little planning.

Merry Christmas to all !



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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AA, Please dont think I'm picking on you or anyone in particular, I know we all have our favourite survival kit its just that these events have a habit of happening when you least expect it and are least prepared.

Point in Question, I'm off to the South of France for the New Year and at the moment I am coping with injury and ill health so I've got to take all my medical kit with me and some to spare just in case there's any problems. One of the problems is I have an indwelling catheter and drainage bag strapped to my leg which is going to be interesting when I go through security with all the bullcrap of liquid explosives at UK Airports.

I travel a lot and there's tough restrictions on what you can carry on a plane, so worse case scenario I could end up lost in Africa without my gear.

As to food etc. being requisitioned it always happens in times of conflict or emergency, everything, food, water, medicals supplies, fuel etc. all are controlled. Have you heard ther stories of Katrina survivors having their food etc. taken from them when they went to the camps.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Hi JG, tough chick and smart chick, you'v got a good brain in that head of yours.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
AA, Please don't think I'm picking on you or anyone in particular,


Oh I didn't take it personally, it was the chance to get into a heated debate that's all.


I know we all have our favourite survival kit its just that these events have a habit of happening when you least expect it and are least prepared.


Yes they do that's all right because with or without BOB I still carry enough on my person everyday to make it to my BOB. I am legally licensed to carry a concealed hand gun and I do. But most impotently I carry at all times a pocket knife and a multi tool.


Point in Question, I'm off to the South of France for the New Year and at the moment I am coping with injury and ill health so I've got to take all my medical kit with me and some to spare just in case there's any problems. One of the problems is I have an indwelling catheter and drainage bag strapped to my leg which is going to be interesting when I go through security with all the bullcrap of liquid explosives at UK Airports.


I could see ware that would be a pain and Ime hoping for safe travel to and from your destination. Medical wise I don't think they will give you much of a hassle. I mean think about it. if You were the one doing the looking and you find on a person a clear bag filled with yellow liquid and a tube running up you will know right away what it is and not want to touch it.



I travel a lot and there's tough restrictions on what you can carry on a plane, so worse case scenario I could end up lost in Africa without my gear.


Yes I suppose in those circumstance it would be possible. But Most of us aren't planning on traveling to Africa. I pretty much stick close to home. The place ware I live has just about everything so I don't have to travel to enjoy myself. all tho If I get enough money I desperately want to see the UK that would be a dream come true.


As to food etc. being requisitioned it always happens in times of conflict or emergency, everything, food, water, medicals supplies, fuel etc. all are controlled. Have you heard ther stories of Katrina survivors having their food etc. taken from them when they went to the camps.


It may have happened with Katrina then again every thing that could go wrong with that did, starting with the fact if you build below sea level the sea will reclaime. That is not the way most tragedies in the U.S. are handled, Yet. In the US our food is not taken from us period. But even if it was that is what the survival forums are for. To educate people on how to survive without and the easiest way to get back in the game.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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AA, I'm going to have the bag full of whisky, like nobody's going to do a taste test are they.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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I dont think they will even be tempted. God help them if they did.
Have a safe trip.



posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 10:01 PM
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I think you are selling yourself and Americans short here in this post. I dont think you or even many are thinking it through far enough.

Survival is what we do every day. Thinking out days through as to how we are going to pay our bills next week..next month...that insurance bill, The taxes, The doctor bill, food bills, heat, water. All this comes under the heading of survival.

Some of us have merely taken it several steps further..in case of natural calamity ..or even non natural calamity.

Thinking people know that survival is every day!!!! Every day plus!!!!

Otherwise many just think far enough to get back behind the remote controller.

"Hey man...how about those Redskins?? The Lakers?? Nascar?? Hooters??
American Idol. Is that survival???

Mind you now...what do you think would happen in conduct to most Americans if you told them you were going to take away thier drugs....I mean thier television sets??? You'd be looking down the barrel of thier guns very quickly. Think about it??!!
I am not being a smart alleck here> I am serious. Think about it. To these people ..television is survival.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999

I am not being a smart alleck here> I am serious. Think about it. To these people ..television is survival.

Thanks,
Orangetom


Wow you claim your not being a smart aleck. That is a rude and unfair generalization maybe you need to step away from the TV news and all there BS statistics



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 12:09 AM
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OK a gun mabe a usefull survival tool but I must be completely honest. I am a MILITARY trained survival instructor, and if I am packing for a recerational trip, unless the receration is hunting, a gun is the very last thing I worry about. granted a gun mabe useful from time to time you do NOT need one to survive in any survival situation. some one brought up the topic of looters, did anyone ever consider if you shoot at one of them they just might shoot back. And as far as defending your homeland if you think an AK is going to defend you from tanks and quite possibly literally thousands of well trained troops I am sorry but u are sadly mistaken. the Military is prepared to combat these Rambos. in any situation where it is you vs. a large group of people u can only shoot so many befor they overwhelm you. and in a wilderness survival situation a gun is not neccesary atall to find food, there are many other ways of gathering foord such as traps, snares and foriging for plant life. It is just knowing your inviroment and what to use from it.



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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I am being serious. Think of the number of people you know who have few actual life experiences outside of what they saw at the movies or television. THey describe thier lives in terms of a television morality they watched or a movie they liked. How about what products they purchased?? Same thing. They have great difficulty expressing a idea or concept outside of these arenas.

Some guy in my crew at work began going on about some kind of feud between Trump and Rosie...I told him to shut up ..it didnt make a gnats bit of difference. These people are not royalty and dont make any difference in my life. Also was his life so barren and such a wasteland that he had to live through the experiences of those two?? This idiocy should be showing up at the check out stands of the tabloids soon in order to dose us as we check out. We didnt get enough the first time.

I am also serious about people being on a drug called television/movies.

Take my wife and kids but dont take ESPN...or my dog!!

Male and female..it is like this among many. Take their drugs away ..and they are truely desperate people.

THanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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I forgot to add after reading your post much earlier. I too carry a multitool. I also carry a Mag Lite converted to the LED type adaptation and spare batteries. I dont like to be without either. In another Mag Lite pouch I carry a set of feeler gauges for my work. I dont feel fully dressed if I dont have them. Exept for wearing a suit I usually have them with me. Spare AA batteries I usually have on me four.

I have been caught on these ships without a flashlight when the power goes out. You cannot see your hand in front of you. Good way to fall down a open hole and to your death or serious injury and it has happened. Uses for the Multitools are self explainitory if you have any manual dexterity combined with the brains to put it to use. Handy little device to keep around.
I also carry a regular pocket knife and have done so since I was a kid.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 09:06 AM
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My preferred bug-out area would be at least a 2 hour drive from any major urban area but no more than a 30 minute drive/ 2 hour bike ride from a town of 5-20K population. Back in the 90's this was the advice of many survival scenario theorists. Think Jericho or Red Dawn. Most of theses areas around the US are usually mixed farm/ wilderness. You'll be far enough away from the roving gangs that spring up around urban area to be not worth the trip but close enough to do a day trip for trading in town or to seek medical attention in case of emergency.
I recommend stealth or zero tilling farming. No hybrid seed grains will last more than a season, find a grain that will grow with a minimum of attention and save at least 10% for seed. Find out what fruit and nut trees grow naturally in your area. If you have to do veggie's, do it in small raised beds or plant boxes.
The 2 most important survival tools you can carry is a good plan and a good knife everything else is civilized luxury.



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by The_Smokeing_Gun
OK a gun mabe a usefull survival tool but I must be completely honest. I am a MILITARY trained survival instructor, and if I am packing for a recerational trip,


yep but were not talking recreational trips here were talking survival.


granted a gun mabe useful from time to time you do NOT need one to survive in any survival situation.


Not every one is a trained survival expert some need the extra help that a firearm brings.



and in a wilderness survival situation a gun is not necessary atall to find food, there are many other ways of gathering foord such as traps, snares and foriging for plant life. It is just knowing your inviroment and what to use from it.


I completely agree a gun is not necessary to gather food, but it sure does speed the process up. I don't recall ware any of us have said a gun is necessity but some of us choose to pack and its getting a little boring defending our choice on this matter. Ime happy you chose not to carry and seriously applaud you for that. for you it is the right choice. carrying is the right choice for me. Ime no hero and don't want to be Rambo but I am very determined to see my family and I thru the any potential troubled times ahead. Just so you know I can do it with and or without a firearm. I've trained myself both ways.



Originally posted by orangetom1999

I am being serious. Think of the number of people you know who have few actual life experiences outside of what they saw at the movies or television.


I did think of the number of people I know and what you describe is not reality ware I live. It is a generalization of a large minority not a majority. contrary to what the statistics may say.


Some guy in my crew at work began going on about some kind of feud between Trump and Rosie...I told him to shut up ..it didnt make a gnats bit of difference. These people are not royalty and don't make any difference in my life. Also was his life so barren and such a wasteland that he had to live through the experiences of those two??


That would get on my nerves to but hay if that's what gets him off that's a choice he made. You shouldn't think down on him for that. Its obviously not the choice you and I have made but did you ever stop to think maybe he would think the way you or I choose to live our lives is as rediciols as you think his choice is. Different strokes my friend. We must be tolerant of others choices as long as their choice doesn't directly interfere with your choice.



I am also serious about people being on a drug called television/movies.


Again you have a right to your own opinion but if you look for the bad you will find it. When you generalize you poison all the plants not just the weeds



I forgot to add after reading your post much earlier. I too carry a multitool. I also carry a Mag Lite converted to the LED type adaptation and spare batteries. I dont like to be without either.


Know what you mean. I never really remember to mention my light because it is a little Bright white LED that I carry on my keychain. Its one of the most usful things I own and it cost me $2.99. I have a couple of the big mag lights that I was thinking of converting. Is it worth it? Is the quality of light still there?



posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 01:05 AM
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Smoking Gun,
Excellent that you know and have survival experience. Many of us do not. It is also excellent that you are confident enough to not need a gun most of the time.

I think that alot of people do not understand that in certain situations you do not want to have contact with others...they will become more of a liability than a asset.

This was the case here a few years back after Hurricane Isabel. This mind you ..was not anywhere near the hurricane suffered by the people of New Orleans. Yet people here who had made no preparations were running about afterwords and stealing the generators of those who had prepared. Astonishing!! YOu know what I mean...time for the Redskins and the Lakers but no time to prepare for a hurricane..and they are not as uncommon around here as some think Hurricanes or wildlife.

I had a 4000 Watt Coleman generator I had purchased some years back.
After the Hurricane had passed I watched the guy next door with a wife and kids....and no electricity. I ran him a line for his refrigerator and some lights. This Dumb A-- was so stupid..that he listened to his wife and plugged in his window air conditioner instead. He has one of the largest capacity 110volt window units possible. With my house on the generator too it quickly overloaded and began to falter. I quickly unplugged his line and fussed him out. That was the end of my looking out for him.
Mind you now..I was taking this generator back and forth to my parents house also. My mother needs refrigerated medicines and I was charging thier refrigerator and freezer for so many hours and then coming back here to do mine. This idiot would have had us all without electricity and damage my generator in order to listen to his wife and take care of her creature comforts to the detriment of all of us. He should have bought his own generator.
This guy was actually resentful at my unplugging him from the line. I couldnt believe the entitlement mentality.
I have since purchased a 7500 watt generator. I do not however have any plans to run this guy any electricity the next time. He still hasnt purchased a generator..or made any such preperations of which I know.
I am prepared now to take my olde 4000 watt and leave it chained up at my parents home the next time.

You are correct Angry American ..to each his own. Just not mine when I say no!!!

I should tell you Angry American...I am in the Shipbuilding trade..as a machinist...on the ships themselves. I have a subskill level as a nuclear refueler. I have been around long enough to know that certain things you do or plan for...pre stage into place for a job or emergencys...you dont tolerate light weights next to you. Nor A-- Wipes. They can be serious liabilitys.

When you must solve these problems or tasks...everyone around you needs to be on the same page or someone is going to get hurt or killed.
For people who know this type of thinking and experience ...they know from exactly whence I am speaking. This is survival for everyone involved.
YOu dont want to hear about the Lakers, or the Redskins or Rosie and Donald or anything else..just focus on the task at hand. Save all that talk for some other time. There are people who do not know this concept ...and cannot step up to the plate when necessary. AT these times this kind of A-- Wipe thinking is not a option. They think it is optional and even life itself as was the case with the Isabel airconditioner.
This knowlege does not make me better than others..no way. It does however make me very different ..which is also my read on Smoking Gun. Very different from most of us.'

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 27 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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It is true a gun does speed up things when looking for food however I would think it would be unwise to depend on such a thing because eventualy in a survival situation you are going to run out of ammo then what do u do. And as far as defence goes do u realy want to be using ur primary source of defence for hunting game. in order to realy survive u must have the knowledge to live with out anything.



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by The_Smokeing_Gun
It is true a gun does speed up things when looking for food however I would think it would be unwise to depend on such a thing because eventualy in a survival situation you are going to run out of ammo then what do u do. And as far as defence goes do u realy want to be using ur primary source of defence for hunting game. in order to realy survive u must have the knowledge to live with out anything.


I agree..your first tool or weapon if you like ...is your wits...common sense.

I have put back a substantial amout of ammunition..not for fighting or hunting ..but for barter..moneys. Thinking first...use the gray matter.
Live off the law of the minimum...the very least you require.

Your thinking can make all the difference..thinking first. Not brute force.
Well said olde man.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 28 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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I think it requires just as much knowledge to know how to use a gun effeciently, as it does to know how to collect food with out one. fire arms arn't exactly plug and play. I know in Canada to own a fire arm u must spend two weekends in a class room learning the proper ways to use a fire arm. It dosn't only require knowledge on how to load, clean, and assemble. You must also know how to be accurate, such as breathing how to line up the sights and how to even hold a weapon correctly.





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