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Why not take out a step?

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posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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sometimes, i run into this train of thought in conversations about the origins of the universe:

if the universe exists, what created it?
common answer: god
what created god?
common answer: god always existed

as carl sagan put it, why not take out a step?
why don't we just say: the universe and matter always existed?
is it that hard to believe that existence has always existed in some form or another?




posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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madness, this is why the magical step is required.

The Atheist Delusion

Now repent...



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 08:09 PM
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It subatomic particles can eternally divide down into ever smaller sub-components (Strings are the ultimate particle? Nahhhh) why can't God be just one god created by a Meta-God, who in turn is just one of many... etc etc.

Maybe God evolved into what It is now, in It's metaverse.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by emjoi
It subatomic particles can eternally divide down into ever smaller sub-components (Strings are the ultimate particle? Nahhhh) why can't God be just one god created by a Meta-God, who in turn is just one of many... etc etc.

Maybe God evolved into what It is now, in It's metaverse.


this is what i mean, the more you add, the more complex it becomes
why even bother to include god?

what happened to occum's razor?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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i think Bill Hicks said it best.

all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration … that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves.

MIB 1 the ending of that movie is how it is.
hehe.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by thedangler]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
sometimes, i run into this train of thought in conversations about the origins of the universe:

if the universe exists, what created it?
common answer: god
what created god?
common answer: god always existed

as carl sagan put it, why not take out a step?
why don't we just say: the universe and matter always existed?
is it that hard to believe that existence has always existed in some form or another?


Well the only problem with your hypothesis is the fact that it is wrong, or extremely unlikely.

All of our evidence to date indicates that the universe was generated in a single moment, at least what became the universe anyway.

The microwave background radiation was predicted to be at a temperature of 2.76 Kelvin when the big bang theory was proposed. In fact, they have confirmed that the microwave background radiation, at present time, is very close to this temperature.

So why is it in the microwave wavelength of the spectrum you might ask,

That is because the microwave background radiation was actually within the visable light spectrum immediately following the big bang. Due to the distance the light had to travel after the expansion of the universe and the continued expansion of the universe, the light became shifted into longer wavelengths and began to cool.

The big bang model also correctly predicted the porportions of elements in the universe created after the era of nucleosynthesis. about 74% hydrogen and and 24% helium and 2% heavier elements.

If you examine certain mysteries in the universe, such as gravitational constant needed to form protostars, you almost have to believe in divine intervention. The reason being that if the numbers were off by even a tiny fraction, the universe could not exist the way it does.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by XphilesPhan]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 10:51 PM
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OK then the question becomes, Who/What planted the tightly condensed mass to make the big bang possible. where did all that stuff come from.

and all their theories come from discoveries based of earth. i wonder if it world be different if we actually when to other planets in other solar systems. we are so young as a human race we still know too little.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:26 PM
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XphilesPhan, i agree, all evidence points toward OUR UNIVERSE being created in a single event known as the big bang

but does that necassarily mean that matter and energy didn't exist before our universe?

[edit on 12/11/06 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
but does that necassarily mean that matter and energy didn't exist before our universe?


No. Scientists disagree about this issue. Maybe so, maybe not. Mankind does not have a "theory of everything" yet.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
sometimes, i run into this train of thought in conversations about the origins of the universe:

if the universe exists, what created it?
common answer: god
what created god?
common answer: god always existed

as carl sagan put it, why not take out a step?
why don't we just say: the universe and matter always existed?
is it that hard to believe that existence has always existed in some form or another?

My belief too, especially since I don't believe in higher beings. Ockhams razor: The simplest solution is often the correct one.




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