My Fellow Americans: it was on this day two years ago - Election Day 2000 - that all the horrendous crap we've been going through lately began in earnest.

Some words from the past for the two years ahead:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

- Abraham Lincoln


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"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. What, in its essence, is Fascism, but ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

quoting great leaders is so passÈ, BT.


[Edited on 8-11-2002 by Bob88]

There are none now, and we haven't had one for two years, so I got to be inspired somewhere!

Originally posted by Bout Time
There are none now, and we haven't had one for two years, so I got to be inspired somewhere!

Ronnie was the best !

You were reading my mind UP.

BT, if you're looking to quote great leaders you need not look that far back, Reagan will more than suffice.

As a matter of record, reagan was a great and inspiring speaker to many( he was my first presidential vote - so he had me fooled for a bit too!). But there has never been a more detached and uninvolved president in our life time. He delegated everything and failed to do what makes that a sound management device - occasional check ups and audits of their actions.Till we get to the hindsight point on this Bush administration, that will stand as the yard stick of incompetence. All the proof you need is the number of pardons, including felons, that Reagan and Bush had to dole out to former administration players.

geez, BT. You're a sucker for the liberal propaganda machine. You must have come down w/ a bad case of the stockholm syndrome. Reagan was very hands on, wrote many of his own speeches (not to mention all of them prior to becoming president) - don't believe the hype.

Originally posted by Bob88
geez, BT. You're a sucker for the liberal propaganda machine. You must have come down w/ a bad case of the stockholm syndrome. Reagan was very hands on, wrote many of his own speeches (not to mention all of them prior to becoming president) - don't believe the hype.

I don't subscribe to propaganda, that's why you guys argue my points without data to back you up - you're raise on propaganda!
Reagan was no where near hands on. How can you drop that crap with a straight face? Testimony from Iran/Contra, Bush I quotes, and people from his administration as well as official biographers said he delegated everything and managed by summary. Grand Delegator is a title he's known by, for Be Jeebus sakes!!!
Go to Google or any search engine and type in 'Grand Delegator' & "reagan' or just 'Grand Delegator' and tell me what you find.
Really Bob, stop believing the hype. He was a great president in one facet of the job: he spoke well and inspired by his words, something that was needed at the time in a large degree.

Originally posted by Bout Time
As a matter of record, reagan was a great and inspiring speaker to many( he was my first presidential vote - so he had me fooled for a bit too!). But there has never been a more detached and uninvolved president in our life time. He delegated everything and failed to do what makes that a sound management device - occasional check ups and audits of their actions.Till we get to the hindsight point on this Bush administration, that will stand as the yard stick of incompetence. All the proof you need is the number of pardons, including felons, that Reagan and Bush had to dole out to former administration players.

Awesome points. I love the "data", and what "fact" - really, there's no propaganda here?
Sheesh.

You put the guy up on a pedestal, so I know you have not looked into it. But it's there. The key defense for all the crap that went on was " it went on without his knowledge". You buy that as a defense but don't see it as uninvolved, detatched management!?!
Sheesh.

Maybe you and I, because of different priorities in core issues, see the same situation in a different light. I imagine that if you cut our positions in half the truth would be near.

Bout Time there is a lot of leftist propoganda about bush and that's so far been your strongest point against him....yet you don't like propoganda?

Sincerely,
no signature

I fancy Gerald Ford would be a strong competitor in any "total dud of recent times" list.
One must, I guess, separate the man from the policies and achievements - and it's not unfair to say that Reagan had his share of successes (how far he was personally responsible - or even vaguely aware of what was going on - is, of course, a different issue).
On the general "anniversary" theme -one imagines that the late great JL will be gracing the airwaves soon with "And so this is Christmas, and what have we done?"
I fear bad words for Afghanistan soon, and the British Government has been releasing the most alarmist official and leaked statements suggesting more dreadful acts in the West.
May be Tony's bid at a copy of GWB's patriot act and other wizard wheezes; but I really do not feel that there is any less fear now than there was a year or so ago.

IMO, it doesn't matter which party "wins"...The People still lose. The only difference is the *rate of speed* that the People lose.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Bout Time there is a lot of leftist propoganda about bush and that's so far been your strongest point against him....yet you don't like propoganda?

If only the meds were in proper dosage, perhaps you would have turned out.....different

Originally posted by Estragon
one imagines that the late great JL will be gracing the airwaves soon with "And so this is Christmas, and what have we done?"

"let's hope it's a good one, without any Fear"
It is a more dangerous world with more attacks pending.......policy change, anyone?

And "War is over:if you want it" -I'd not be inclined to elevate the world's greatest Pop-writers beyond their station - but there's something there.

It is no good thing to be approaching every public, and every confined, space with a degree of trepidation: the good Lord, our own folly, and Nature gave us enough to fear - one would wish our leaders lightened the burden.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
IMO, it doesn't matter which party "wins"...The People still lose. The only difference is the *rate of speed* that the People lose.

LOL! MD, you and I may not agree on every single issue, but we certainly understand the old saying about if someone owns all the horses in the race, he doesn't care which one wins!
No matter what issues I am in agreement with in regards to the Republican party, the fact that they have no intentions or desire to set the nation back on the path the founding fathers placed us on to begin with makes it clear that they are not for us, anymore than the democrats or any other type of politician.

Don't forget to rub that in my face in two years when I'm ill about the repubs doing nothing but playing politics and getting nothing done. The good thing is, since they will control the house, senate and the oval office, they'll have hardly anyone to blame but themselves.

Originally posted by Thomas CrowneThe good thing is, since they will control the house, senate and the oval office, they'll have hardly anyone to blame but themselves.

Instead of waiting for them (IE: politicians) to cause more damage & *then* place blame, why not stand up as a Nation United & *prevent* that damage from occuring in the first place?