Iranian SAM effectiveness?

I recently came accross this article..

www.newsmax.com...

To make matters worse, Pentagon officials quietly confirmed that Russia has also sold S-300 missiles to Iran. According to defense intelligence officials, joint Russian/Iranian crews currently man two S-300 units just outside of Tehran and Iranian Army soldiers are now undergoing operational training on the advanced missile system in Moscow.

Although the article is old, it does seem to confirm the fact that Iran has s-300 units operational. Being 5 years old, it is possible that more than 2 units are operational.

I am no military expert, but aren't the S300's a very competant SAM? From the same source..

Pentagon officials quietly assert that that America currently does not have the air power to counter the deadly S-300 missile

The article is 5 years old however..

Combined with the Tor M1's which are currently being delivered as well as an improved indigenous SAM capability, it seems potential losses on any US/Israeli air strike might be larger than expected.

If Iran had S-300 it would have shown them off at its many military parades, airshows and televised propaganda exercises. And they would probably be more reported in the quality military press.

I searched Iran for SAM sites using google earth, I found many, but fewer than in many other middle-eastern countries and none with even a hint of S-300 about them (I've seen about 50 different S-300 sites on google earth so I know what they lok like).

Iran has some SA-2 (HQ-2) sites, some Crotale sites (HQ-7), some SA-5 sites, quite a few active I-Hawk sites still in the US static model, a few Rapier and AAA positions around key locations. The Army also has SA-6 units and possibly already entering service SA-15 units. Total SAM coverage is less than 50% of the national airspace.





[edit on 28-11-2006 by planeman]

Cool info Planeman

But after doing some research it seems this has been widely reported..

In March 2001 the first reports appeared that the Russians are close to sign a deal with Iran on advanced S-300PMU missiles. Later that year Pentagon officials quietly confirmed that Russia has sold S-300 missiles to Iran. According to defense intelligence officials, joint Russian/Iranian crews manned two S-300 units just outside of Tehran and Iranian soldiers undergo operational training on the advanced missile system in Russia. Now the rumors say that Iran is going to purchase at least 18 new systems.

The New Russian "Toys" for Ayatollahs – Threat to American Air Force

Pentagon officials quietly assert that that America currently does not have the air power to counter the deadly S-300 missile.

The report was almost believable until this part, I don't know who these "Pentagon officials" are but they sure don't seem real informed on US military capability.

And I've read reports Iran is interested in buying the S-300 but there is no credible evidence to support the assertion that it already has them.

S-300PMU were very good ADS sys's i've seen them & their effectiveness in IA [INDIA] which were queitly deadly, but still we r looking for PAC-3 sys.

Originally posted by bhramos
S-300PMU were very good ADS sys's i've seen them & their effectiveness in IA [INDIA] which were queitly deadly, but still we r looking for PAC-3 sys.

Does India have any operational S-300 systems? Like Iran, Indioa is often listed among operators but I've not seen a single photograph of an Indian SA-10 unit.

ok but i have seen them them which were placed on TATRA trucks, but it looks like Army was not satisfied by them. trying to Israeli Arrow sys. but we already got Green Pine Radar which is used by arrow, now this radar linked with S-300 sys makes it more deadly sys.firepower of russian, and effectiveness of the western sys's.

Sorry, I'm not clear as to whether you are saying that India has operational S-300 or not? If it does, are there any photos to verify it?

Yeah.. neither am I!!
Where have you seen them?

btw I saw a MiG-25R yesterday..

Its sooooooooooooooooo freaking massive!!!
23 meters in length..
And the intakes!!!
They look like booster strap-ons!!!
The max speed info was a little controversial as usual though!
Only 3093 kmph(Mach 2.52)
I the the MiG-25P (interceptor) is faster then?
The radar cone is also MASSIVE.
The photo recon pods were all over the front underbelly though.

I think I'm more impressed then when I saw the MKI!!
The Cockpit looked minmiscule though.. So small that It seemed difficul to fit a grown man inside!!

whos MIG25?

you sure it's not a MIG31?

I thought noone uses MIG25s any more.

yes MiG25 R reconnaisance..

I wouldn't underestimate the Iranian military.

And the comment that they don't have them because they don't parade them well thats just stupid. If they parade them around that means they aren't ready for an attack.

And they don't have just two or three systems. Over the years they have acquired hundreds of different SAM systems and continue to do so to this day.

On the books and off the books. They have adequate systems to defend themselves and at least deal a good blow while getting their facilities nuked. Iran probably already has most of it's armies hiding in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan by now.

Just waiting for the day when the US and Israel is dumb enough to instigate a bloody war.

Originally posted by jinsanity
And the comment that they don't have them because they don't parade them well thats just stupid. If they parade them around that means they aren't ready for an attack.

No, the logic is sound. The iranian military, like many others, boosts its ego by showing its kit off for the people and press. It also acts as a deterent reminding would-be attackers of just what a nightmare attacking them would be. It's paraded/publically exercised loads of its latest and most impressive weaponary including numerous ballistic missiles, rocket-torpedos, stealth torpedo boats, submersible boats, mini and midget subs, latest tanks etc. The only major system we haven't really seen is the 1,200+ ton "Mowj" corvette (also described as a destroyer etc) which is probably moored in Banda Abbas as I write - I wish someone would go take a few snapshots of it... But no S-300s.

Well whats more important than whether they parade them or not is if they infact HAVE them in an operational capability or not.
They don't want a war. They would be badly mauled if they ever got into one. Even if the US would not come out outright victorious, it would ensure that the opposition is devastated(read vietnam,Iraq).
So it would make a lot of sense to show off something as formidable as the S-300 to serve as a deterrent. Especially when they use propaganda to show-off so many other 'deadly' gizmos which aren't half as important as the S-300.
Unless the Russians have told them to keep the S-300s as a low key affair.

as I said. Military's don't show off everything they have. When was the last time America paraded everything they have in their arsenal in DC?

If Iran were to take all it's Sam systems out of operation to parade around they would just be asking for it.

The logic is stupid. They aren't going to parade everything they have. Especially the equipment they've purchased from the black market.

Remember in the recent missile tests how US intell was crapping it's pants because they discovered Iran has weapons they never thought they had?

Originally posted by jinsanity
as I said. Military's don't show off everything they have. When was the last time America paraded everything they have in their arsenal in DC?

Some do and some don't, the US has nothing to prove, everyone know what we can do there no need to parade it but we do make most of our systems public. The USSR on the other hand used to parade their stuff in public, so does North Korea, it all depends.

Originally posted by jinsanity
If Iran were to take all it's Sam systems out of operation to parade around they would just be asking for it.

Not really, Iran's main point is to try and prevent a war by showing as much capability as possible. It would make no sense for Iran to seek a war it can't possibly win.

Originally posted by jinsanity
Remember in the recent missile tests how US intell was crapping it's pants because they discovered Iran has weapons they never thought they had?

Really? Since you have access to US intelligence information please share. No ambiguous reports without sources please.

According to this article Iran would have those:

SA-18 Igla-S
Anti-air SA-10 “Grumble” also know as S-300P
Tor-M1
Mobile radar 36D6 systems

So, if they have in fact S-300P, will Israël be able to strike Iran's nuclear facilities if they want? After all, if China have them, why not Iran? And Russia don't want his investment to be nuked...

So, let's say it's true, Israël modified the F-16s like that:

Fitted with modified drop tanks to extend their range, a trio of smaller, more agile F-16s presents a much more difficult challenge to Iran’s defenders than a larger force of twin-engine F-15s. Renowned for their ability to “tweak” American-supplied weapons, the Israelis have, according to my inside source, managed to reduce the F-16’s radar profile “to the size of a kid’s tricycle.”

As he described it, “We fuel ‘em up and they go off the reservation, hit afterburners, hit the deck, and vanish...”
Demonstrating his insider knowledge, he further noted that the Israelis have modified the original drop tanks supplied by the Americans to simultaneously feed the F-16’s single engine, thereby avoiding the fuel management distractions required to keep the fighter in balance using the one-tank-at-a-time U.S. system.

Also unlike their USAF counterparts, Israeli F-16s can simultaneously jettison their spent underwing fuel tanks without the risk of a tumbling drop tank striking live ordnance suspended under the fighter’s wings.

Who would ``win``?

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Vitchilo]

Nobody. It would be a disaster for all of us.

posted by planeman
It's paraded/publically exercised loads of its latest and most impressive weaponary including numerous ballistic missiles, rocket-torpedos, stealth torpedo boats, submersible boats, mini and midget subs, latest tanks etc.

One key thing for everything I have seen the Iranian's "parade" (either on TV or video releases) is that it appears to all be the indigineously developed equip. Not sure if that is an indication, or not...

As for your assertion "It's not on Google Earth so it doesn't exist". That's utter BS. For starters, many pics are years old. The picture of my house is over 3 years old, if not 4. And that is in a high-res picture of a major Urban Conurbation in the UK.

Pictures of UK military installations barely have anything on display. The Garrison near to Reading (my town), I know, is chock to the rafters with Chally 2's, MLRS, AS-90, Rapier's and AH-64 Longbows, plus assorted other tidbits. I bet you cannot spot a single one on Google Earth

Assuming that Iran does not have something because you cannot find it on Google Earth images, which for the bulk of Iran are piss poor anyway, is dangerously illogical and a downright daft assertion to make.

I did see your threads and they were well researched with some good pics, but that does not make you a sattelite imaging specialist or the final word on the Iranian military.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but you entered this thread with an air of superiority that because you spent your free time Googling Iran, you know it all. A dangerous position to take.

posted by Westpoint23
Not really, Iran's main point is to try and prevent a war by showing as much capability as possible. It would make no sense for Iran to seek a war it can't possibly win.

Are you so sure you will win? Not doing so well in Iraq, are we? Or Afghanistan for that matter. Just because monkey-bush declares the war over, that doesn't make it so.

Afghanistan fighting is so intense that UK commanders have said it is the fiercest seen since Korea and that includes the Falklands.

As it stands, Iran would be in for a major creaming, but they are widely acknowledged to be amongst the world leaders in asymetric warfare and we saw what that can do to a modern military in Lebanon. You have to put boots on the ground to win a war and that is where Iran will grab you by the short and curlies.

As it stands, Iran would be in for a major creaming, but they are widely acknowledged to be amongst the world leaders in asymetric warfare and we saw what that can do to a modern military in Lebanon. You have to put boots on the ground to win a war and that is where Iran will grab you by the short and curlies.

Well, if Israël and the US use nukes... you won't have to put boots on the ground. The EMP will decimate most of their missiles and the leadership will be killed.

But how the world would accept another Hiroshima X100?

Also, IF Iran have S-300s, will Israëli F-16 pass throught it?