Do I believe in God? Enlighten me.

I have been trying to figure this out for some time. I grew up going to a catholic school, so religion played or plays a big part in my life. I realize that there are some pretty screwed up things going on in the world and I don't like it. My questions has always been, "why can't these government officials just do what is good for humanity? why can't they just help somebody?" I am now of the opinion, or at least I think I am, that there is no GOD. How could "GOD" stand by a watch some sicko rape a 10 year boy or girl and then say " ok you screwed up your going to hell!!!" What justifies the pain and suffering that child has to go through so that god can judge whether or not this sicko can enter the kingdom of heaven or not? SO for me god doesn't exist, i think? but I have still have this urge to do good for other people and be aware of my actions that they do not cause pain or suffering to someone else. but aren't we human beings and aren't human beings animals and animals follow survival of the fittest, hence the frocking situation the world is in today. OR do we as "animals" evolve to higher state understanding and is it possible for a human to actually be caring without GOD, and then the circle goes back to the little child that get raped and I can't break this dang cycle. Help!?!?

the reason the governments don't do anything is because the world is not controlled by the governments, the world is controlled by multinational corporations and their profits are that which keeps the stupid economy going so the government can't screw them over if they want the economy to continue to improve. Alot of the bad things in the world are happening because of religion, god exists however god gave us free will so that we would have the choice to do things in life, otherwise we would still be primitive animals, for things to be peaceful everyone must realize god and what it means to be in unity with god.

sounds like this God
has sent you out on a Quest...


i wish you success
Enjoy your Journey

The world is as it is because we are created to the equal of God... you try to figure out who God was... and then also look at Lucifer... who saved the Egyptians.

Originally posted by mooseofterror
I have been trying to figure this out for some time. I grew up going to a catholic school, so religion played or plays a big part in my life. I realize that there are some pretty screwed up things going on in the world and I don't like it. My questions has always been, "why can't these government officials just do what is good for humanity? why can't they just help somebody?" I am now of the opinion, or at least I think I am, that there is no GOD. How could "GOD" stand by a watch some sicko rape a 10 year boy or girl and then say " ok you screwed up your going to hell!!!" What justifies the pain and suffering that child has to go through so that god can judge whether or not this sicko can enter the kingdom of heaven or not? SO for me god doesn't exist, i think? but I have still have this urge to do good for other people and be aware of my actions that they do not cause pain or suffering to someone else. but aren't we human beings and aren't human beings animals and animals follow survival of the fittest, hence the frocking situation the world is in today. OR do we as "animals" evolve to higher state understanding and is it possible for a human to actually be caring without GOD, and then the circle goes back to the little child that get raped and I can't break this dang cycle. Help!?!?

I too strugle with this thought...

This only begain several years ago. I began to question my purpose, the purpose of the human race, the thought of are we alone in the universe, the thought of if God new person X was going to rape, muder, steal, etc..why give the choice to do so? If God has a devine plan for everyone, why give that person the choice to rape, murder, or steal? Were they put here to specifically do this to this other person? If God was a loving and forgiving God, why is there so much war? To many question's and not enough answers. So I continue to search for the answers. Some I accept, some I do not.

I have talked to numerious Christians about this. They always give me the same answer "This is God's plan, do not question it". To me, that seems as if they blindly follow something they were told to do, without question. I can't accept that. My thought is, they have been spoon fed this "do not question" from the beginning of their life, and don't think outside the box or for themselves when it comes to religion.

Honestly mooseofterror, I don't know if you will ever know the truth that you seek. It is however, a matter of perception...

Originally posted by mooseofterror
I have been trying to figure this out for some time. I grew up going to a catholic school, so religion played or plays a big part in my life. I realize that there are some pretty screwed up things going on in the world and I don't like it. My questions has always been, "why can't these government officials just do what is good for humanity? why can't they just help somebody?" I am now of the opinion, or at least I think I am, that there is no GOD. How could "GOD" stand by a watch some sicko rape a 10 year boy or girl and then say " ok you screwed up your going to hell!!!" What justifies the pain and suffering that child has to go through so that god can judge whether or not this sicko can enter the kingdom of heaven or not? SO for me god doesn't exist, i think? but I have still have this urge to do good for other people and be aware of my actions that they do not cause pain or suffering to someone else. but aren't we human beings and aren't human beings animals and animals follow survival of the fittest, hence the frocking situation the world is in today. OR do we as "animals" evolve to higher state understanding and is it possible for a human to actually be caring without GOD, and then the circle goes back to the little child that get raped and I can't break this dang cycle. Help!?!?

mooseofterror, We live in a World that glorifies money and power. In many ways, Mankind has 'not' evolved at all, but instead continued on with his twisted desire to destroy regardless of the consequences of his own actions. I've said this before but i'll say it again, 'There is a bit of Truth In Everything'. To say Yea or Nay Completely would erase the 'In Between'. The Inbetween does exist, we only need to acknowlege it. God is a Positive entity Created of Positive Matter in which we are all interconnected. When we pray 'or' Believe for something, we are using our creative inner abilities which are all connected to our main source or 'Collective'. It's so easy for us to blame God because then we do not have to blame ourselves for our Own actions. We indeed are run by 'Elitists' whom of which we have no control, and this has created a deep rooted anxiety in people. Our need to 'Know' is continuous. Those who don't believe in God often continue to blame God. What we need to realise is that we are all One together and everything exists because of God. Think about it like this ... Let's pretend that Humanity is a Light Bulb and God is the Power to that Light Source but, we have been given the ability to choose because that was how we evolved, we became smarter and more in tune with our spirituality so, we have now figgured out a way to access that switch and we can either do 'good' or 'evil' things with that power we are now 'aware' we have. It's neither Gods nor Our fault but by Choice we do what we do. We can change the Negative Power to Create Positive Power if we so choose.

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Sapphire]

we became smarter and more in tune with our spirituality so, we have now figgured out a way to access that switch and we can either do 'good' or 'evil' things with that power we are now 'aware' we have. It's neither Gods nor Our fault but by Choice we do what we do. We can change the Negative Power to Create Positive Power if we so choose.

Huh... where is the smart humanity about which you are talking about? We have the power to choose between good and evil? I thought that our instinct said what we have to do... and that menkind doesn't seem to have such a big choice. We have a choice is a nice thought... but there is not so much suffering in the world because we have a choice, neither because we can... because our instinct does deside...

Just like Gods instinct destroyed Lucifer when he formed a treat to him... and as he will destroy us when we begin to form a treat to him... Apocalyps.

Where is the choice? Our instinct doesn't give us much a choice... look around you and you will see. The idea that we can is a bit misleading if you ask me... tell me where our so-called intelligence does something that the instinct doesn't want to happen...

That's a bit hard I know... because we don't let ourselves lead by our so-called intelligence as we would like to

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa

we became smarter and more in tune with our spirituality so, we have now figgured out a way to access that switch and we can either do 'good' or 'evil' things with that power we are now 'aware' we have. It's neither Gods nor Our fault but by Choice we do what we do. We can change the Negative Power to Create Positive Power if we so choose.

Huh... where is the smart humanity about which you are talking about? We have the power to choose between good and evil? I thought that our instinct said what we have to do... and that menkind doesn't seem to have such a big choice. We have a choice is a nice thought... but there is not so much suffering in the world because we have a choice, neither because we can... because our instinct does deside...

Just like Gods instinct destroyed Lucifer when he formed a treat to him... and as he will destroy us when we begin to form a treat to him... Apocalyps.

Where is the choice? Our instinct doesn't give us much a choice... look around you and you will see. The idea that we can is a bit misleading if you ask me... tell me where our so-called intelligence does something that the instinct doesn't want to happen...

That's a bit hard I know... because we don't let ourselves lead by our so-called intelligence as we would like to

So are you saying human beings don't make their own choices? If thats in fact what you mean then in actuality your blaming God and if it's God's fault for everything that is happening on this World, then we are no longer held accountable in the biblical sense of the word, as, you continuously refer to the Bible for your back up and reasoning. Consequently, God did give adam and eve the 'choice' to eat of the tree of life so yes, we do have the ability create our own choices

[Edited on 14-11-2003 by Sapphire]

But those choices are always in confirmation with our instinct So how much choice do we have...

They had the choice to eat from the apple or to not... if the apple would mean sex... wouldn't it then be logic that they made that choice... even though it was the only thing not allowed... because it was in the instinct they took the apple... even though God didn't allow it...

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
But those choices are always in confirmation with our instinct

So how much choice do we have...

They had the choice to eat from the apple or to not... if the apple would mean sex... wouldn't it then be logic that they made that choice... even though it was the only thing not allowed... because it was in the instinct they took the apple... even though God didn't allow it...

Instincts have been known to be wrong. We have as much choice as our laws and our physical bodies allow for...


Who said they didn't have sex in the garden? According to the story of Lillith, Adam and She did have sex so i don't understand where you got that assumption. Are you saying sex is only a pure thing if your Imperfect? If instinct made them 'Take The Apple' then i must assume that they had imperfect judgement and their instincts were misconstrewed. I believe God wanted them to take the apple or he wouldn't have placed them into the garden with a Viper who was also a sinful creature, which brings me back to the 'why would God have allowed sin in his perfect garden to begin with?'

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
But those choices are always in confirmation with our instinct

So how much choice do we have...

They had the choice to eat from the apple or to not... if the apple would mean sex... wouldn't it then be logic that they made that choice... even though it was the only thing not allowed... because it was in the instinct they took the apple... even though God didn't allow it...

Are you stuck on this "Instinct = No Choice" thing again???

I'm not trying to pick on ya or anything LeenBekkemaa, you and I have played philosophical ping-pong about this topic before which you may recall. I understand your point about Instinct being a motivational force behind our actions, but I don't see how that alone Erases Choice or Intellectual Decision making.

Take "Sex" as in your example above, except skipping the religious symbolic meaning for now. "Sex" is an Instinctual Driving Force within not only people but all life that is reproducing. However, I do believe that Humans Can and Do "Choose" NOT to have sex even when the Instictual Desire is telling the person to shag their brains out.(Although it's rare these days, but it does happen!) Even if the choice is being made between 2 or more various Instinctual Desires, it is still the Logical Decision Making Process that is used in making that choice.

Perhaps even a better example is the fact that there is no stronger Instinct within living things than it's own preservation of life. Yet it is possible for a person to Override even thier most deeply ingrained Instinct and make themselves walk off the top of a building and kill themselves for no other reason than just to defy their own Instinct that is telling them not to.

Originally posted by Dr. Know
I have talked to numerious Christians about this. They always give me the same answer "This is God's plan, do not question it". To me, that seems as if they blindly follow something they were told to do, without question. I can't accept that. My thought is, they have been spoon fed this "do not question" from the beginning of their life, and don't think outside the box or for themselves when it comes to religion.

This is also my opinion. To me, "god" isn't even important. This is supposedly some creator that really loves us, but ignores our pain and suffering. This creator supposedly has the power to build new and better universes at the snap of his fingers, yet he's so insecure or vulnerable that he needs your unwavering blind faith. This is a creator that can control all, yet controls absolutely nothing. That leaves very little question in my mind. A god who does nothing is not a god. On the other hand, if he controls all, we're all mere puppets on strings...toys for his sick and twisted amusement. Why the hell would you even want to believe either? Either he's an apathetic asshole, or a sadistic bastard. Just another myth, IMO.

You are in a difficult transition right now, and while we can give you our opinions, ultimately, it will be up to you to find out what your own truth is.

Originally posted by mooseofterror
My questions has always been, "why can't these government officials just do what is good for humanity? why can't they just help somebody?"

People are greedy and selfish by nature, and the higher up the totem pole one is, the more difficult it is to suppress that nature. That's why, overall, poor people are more gracious and generous than rich people will ever be. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" and "Money is the root of all evil" are the two most accurate quotes ever given. The more removed one is from the poor and surrounded by the wealthy, the more they lose touch with what is important. Eventually, retaining they're power becomes the most important thing to anyone with power. The same is true of most people with money. It's our own fault for allowing this to happen. Once people learn the above quotes are true, it becomes their personal responsibility to reject those behaviors.

How could "GOD" stand by a watch some sicko rape a 10 year boy or girl and then say " OK you screwed up your going to hell!!!" What justifies the pain and suffering that child has to go through so that god can judge whether or not this sicko can enter the kingdom of heaven or not?

I heard a good answer to the question "Why does God let bad things happen if He loves us?" The only answer I've ever heard that made any sense at all is this, God doesn't differentiate between "sins". Just because a violent attack on a child seems to us, as humans, to be far worse than a husband committing adultery, doesn't mean it is to God. They both cause pain, suffering, and unhappiness. The same people that cry "Why does God let this happen?" when some horrible sin is committed against an innocent life, would never want God to step in and break up an extra-marital tryst they were having, or stop them from lying to save their @ss. Violent crimes, no matter how impossible it is for us to comprehend or reconcile them, are all relative to the observer. If God sees all the offenses we commit against each other as the same, then He would have to treat them all the same. Since we don't want Him to intervene on sins that bring us pleasure, even though they may hurt someone else, why should He respond to sins that bring us pain. We can't have our cake and eat it too.

SO for me god doesn't exist, i think? but I have still have this urge to do good for other people and be aware of my actions that they do not cause pain or suffering to someone else.

God is not human and is not controlled by human emotions and limitations. We have to choose to either follow our spiritual nature which directs us to love, respect, and help each other, or our physical nature, which contains temptation, greed, and pride. This does not mean one must follow fundamental Western theological beliefs. Only that one must follow their pure inner self, because that is our connection to God. That pure spirit, however, is usually overshadowed by our physical realities. The desire for wealth, fame, possessions, status, all have a strong power to override the essence of God, or the Cosmic Spirit, or whatever.

` but aren't we human beings and aren't human beings animals and animals follow survival of the fittest, hence the frocking situation the world is in today. OR do we as "animals" evolve to higher state understanding and is it possible for a human to actually be caring without GOD, and then the circle goes back to the little child that get raped and I can't break this dang cycle. Help!?!?

Animals, in my opinion, are better off than humans. They are pure and honest. They don't have the capacity to lie, murder for pleasure, torture or torment each other, outside of instinctual actions that are necessary for survival. Yet they can feel and love and learn. They cannot comprehend right and wrong and therefore are not subject to them. One of my favorite quotes is, "The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot." - Mark Twain. I think that animals will be in Heaven long before we ever will.

This is the Truth, as I understand it thus far. It is what I have found to be true for ME and I do not expect anyone else to share it, simply because I do.

This is all based on the theory of a semi-personal God, who exists as infinity but also has a consciousness. I believe that all existence is a manifestation of God and contained within the infinity of God. I also believe that the devil or Satan is a metaphor for our physical bodies and existence. I believe that God and the Holy Spirit are what our spirit or spiritual nature is derived from, and when the devil is judged (as in, our bodies die), our spirit returns to and becomes one with God. Infinite and unified with no attachments to our former human existence. Hell is a state of unrest and an inability to rejoin with the original spirit, or God, the Father.

Animals, in my opinion, are better off than humans. They are pure and honest. They don't have the capacity to lie, murder for pleasure, torture or torment each other, outside of instinctual actions that are necessary for survival. Yet they can feel and love and learn. They cannot comprehend right and wrong and therefore are not subject to them. One of my favorite quotes is, "The spirifact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot." - Mark Twain. I think that animals will be in Heaven long before we ever will.

hey thanks for that one jezebel, i tought i was the only spiritual misanthropic here

God?
Well maybe you should look the life around you and ask what you have and dont, who you have and who you dont, and why you have and why you dont.
Did God give you all these things, or did you?
Wether or not God created this earth or universe im not to sure, what I am sure of is that God is a word used in good faith to live a truthfull and fullfilling life.
Gods dont kill people, People kill people.
Pondering the existince of God is pointless, pondering how your going to keep your family alive for the next 3 years......
Deep


[Edited on 14-11-2003 by ZeroDeep]

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by ZeroDeep]

Well "God" is the explanation for everything humans can't explain for one, and for two "God" can be anything (ie a ball of energy, an assembly of people... etc)

OUTSIDETHEMILDBOX IS THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.
Thats a good way to out it aswell.
Deep

i'm so tired of that one : "God" is the explanation for everything humans can't explain for one.

this easy philosophical argument is always served by those who don't understand the word ''transcendantal''.
Understanding god as you recognize which key is the right one before entering in your appartment is like asking a frog on it's nenuphar to know the ocean.

meditate here and now ... transcend your brain
illuminatti's brain will burn before they understand the loving power of the eternal

dont write off the idea of "god" because of the hypocrisy of christianity and goverments...

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
God?
Well maybe you should look the life around you and ask what you have and dont, who you have and who you dont, and why you have and why you dont.
Did give give you all these things, or did you?
Wether or not God created this earth or universe im not to sure, what I am sure of is that God is a word used in good faith to live a truthfull and fullfilling life.
Gods dont kill people, People kill people.
Pondering the existince of God is pointless, pondering how your going to keep your family alive for the next 3 years......
Deep
[Edited on 14-11-2003 by ZeroDeep]

Ding Ding Ding....."That's the best answer I've heard in while!!.....Tell him what he wins Johnny!"
"Well Deep, you've won a Life free from the Fear of Hell Fire and Brimstone and the Brainwashing by those who capitalize off that fear! You've also won the gift of Understanding Reality in Practical and Useful Terms. Your final prize today is the Ability to See Clearly the World around you for what it is, both good and bad, and act Responsibly without Relying on such crutches as "Blaming God for Creating or Allowing" Everything Under the Sun(Son).

Seriously though, Nice Logical Theory there Deep! Productive, Simple, Logical and Understandible. Allowing for the individual to See and Understand "God" in their own terms and on their own schedual, while still pointing out a path of Compassion of All People toward All People For All People. You didn't even fill up an entire page let alone a books!

I agree with you and will expand a bit that The Incredible Number of People who struggle in their Quest to Define "God", which is a word typically associated as beyond Logical or Literal Restrictions of any definition, is quite pointless until those people find meaning and value in Life Themselves First.

If One has not found the connection between Themselves, The Life In and Around Them and a WAY to Bind Self and Life together with Love, One should not expect to Find "God" in such a Detached Place either.