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"Non Experiencers" - are we part of the puzzle?

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posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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In this thread I was quite inspired by the words of "Time Lord" and felt compelled to make this post.


Originally posted by The time lord
"I think a lot of people who are on this site have had a lot of things in their lives they can not explain and we all are trying to figure out where we are and what is the truth. " (Italics represents the addition of a word by me).


I have never had any kind of experience, never seen a UFO and certainly haven't been abducted yet remain so very fascinated by the subject matter. Even at the age of 7 or 8 I remember sneaking books out of my father's bookcase about UFOs and reading them in secret, or to be more accurate, as I was young, reading snippets of text and looking at the pictures.

I remember being terrified by the images(drawings) of Aliens and yet remained consistently fascinated by them. As I grew older this fascination never waned.

Despite finding "religion" at a late teenage age I never lost my fascination with ETs and UFOs even though I listened to preaching along the lines that this phenomena was demonic (and I was quite the pious one at the time).

Eventually my church attendance waned until I went no more and yet here I am still fascinated, intrigued and desperate for knowledge about ETS and UFOs.

And yet, relating it back to Time Lord's statement, that many are seeking answers for experiences they can't explain, what is it about us "non-experiencers" that compels us towards the subject matter and prolongs our curiosity?

Google and Youtube have been such an instrumental force in making UFO videos and documentaries available to the common person and after viewing many of these documentaries and interviews I cannot deny the number of "witnesses" that profess a "spiritual nature" to the phenomenon, which I'm finding harder to ignore.

I am still not convinced of the spiritual aspect but I have at least reached a stage where I can be more open-minded and say that "I know so little about the universe and reality, who am I to dictate how it 'should' be."

My speculation, that I would value the opinions of others of, is are we "non-believers" part of the puzzle? If there is a spiritual component to "all of this" are we compelled and fascinated by the subject matter because we ourselves are all part of something grander, or are we "non-experiencers" nothing more than curious humans who can only sit back, wonder, and be envious of those that have seen with their own eyes?

Pokey Oats

[Edit: Font command didn't work]

[edit on 8-11-2006 by Pokey Oats]




posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Ya know, I reckon less than half a percent of most country's populations have actually seen or experienced things that they've had problems explaining in their own heads (whether it be UFOs or ghosts). However, you've then got the millions of attention-seekers (attention-whores, perhaps?), hoaxers, out-and-out fantasists and persons with psychological conditions who make all sorts of claims about seeing little green men or know of secret Nazi bases on the Moon.


[edit on 8-11-2006 by Egotosum]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 05:56 PM
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99.99% of the alien/ufo community are people who have never experienced contact with an alien or seen a ufo. But it is the new religion of our time so everyone wants to be in on it.

It's like Christianity or all the other religions. Millions of people are followers with a lot to say about their religions, but none of them actually met Christ or Buddha or whatever.

If you do meet Buddha or Jesus the chances are the religious people will say you're possessed and will cast you out from wherever you are. And if you do meet an alien there is a very good chance the alien/ufo community will reject you because they of course know more than you as they have read all the literature etc.

The aliens and their high tech are simply the latest way that the gods are interacting with mankind. It's a peeling back of another layer to reveal another aspect of God that has always been with us underlying our illusory existence.

So the non experiencers are part of the puzzle. They are the mass that keep the new religion flowing, even though they have never met an alien.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:32 AM
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Pokey Oats: I'm amazed reading your opinions!! it's like I was reading my owns.

Regarding the UFOs and Alien thing seen as a new religion: I don't think so. Religion is all about faith, I mean: As a christian you don't need or even ask for a proof of resurrection, or life after death. You just believe it. Why? well your reason is as good as mine.

On the other hand, the UFO-Alien phenomenom is -to me- of a "material" nature. And that's the way we should try to handle it. I mean: I think of a UFO as i think of a rock. You can touch it, measure it, photograph it, tape it, smell it, kick it, etc. (same goes for aliens). That's why we are here asking or at least expecting PROOFS on almost every thread. And also that's why I think is useless searching for proof of this phenomenom through telepathical or meditational or spiritual (or whatever you wanna call it) means. They can make you a "believer" but won't give you any knowledge. Our brain is VERY complex and we are far far away of understand how it works in detail and what is capable of. So let's keep it more humble and practical. We should be concerned of prove it's real then try to understand it.

Like Pokey Oats and many others here, I've never seen a UFO (and I always keep an eye on the sky), however I've read an seen a LOT of testimonials, photographs and videos, and some of those lead me to think that this phenomenom is real. Yet no one can prove it. So everytime i see a thread like "POSITIVE PROOF..." I always click it with the same excitement. Sadly, 99.9% of times I end up disappointed.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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hello pokey-



And yet, relating it back to Time Lord's statement, that many are seeking answers for experiences they can't explain, what is it about us "non-experiencers" that compels us towards the subject matter and prolongs our curiosity?


Because as mankind has raised its level of consciousness, he finds himself able to explain a great deal about the world around him. Some things remain mysterious however, and the UFO phenomenon is one of them. Many have speculated that UFOs are powered by intelligent beings. We do not know of any other intelligent beings (on our level or greater) so this naturally brings alot of excitement. When you mix this excitment with the mysterious nature of UFOs you generate a lot of interest.

There is a wealth of information available on the internet on the topic. It's up to you to separate fact from fiction. Here are some sources I would recommend>>

www.ufoevidence.org...

More importantly, read these books>>

Unconventional Flying Objects

The Missing Times

Neither of these books are easy reading. But if you really want to know more about the subject matter, then they are highly recommended.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Good thread Pokey.

I too am in the same boat and have often wondered why I even bother.

I mean its really no different than being a religious buff.
All I have after years of interest in the field is faith. Faith that there is something greater, something that may or may not provide salvation for our race.
I really can't explain why I come here when I believe any experience will be more than likely be a personal one.
Which then puts you on the other side of the fence. To be honest, I'm not sure that is the side to be on given the abuse any experiencer that comes forward will get. Not that I am affraid to be different, I've always been a few light years left of centre.
Then what?!?!?! You are fortunate to see something you can explain, can't prove that or what you saw, can't really share it with anyone that hasn't seen something 'out of the norm', I mean, the fact the answer to 'are we alone' has possibly been answered for you... again... then what???

All that said, I'm starting to see that it is really no different than any other belief system.
As always, you will have your haves and have nots and lets face it, your % of people that are not completely of sound mind that just tarnish any credibilty either side may have.

I can't explain why I have never been religious either. Fortunately or may be not so, my parents never imposed a belief system onto me - they pretty much left it up to me....... and here I am, scouring sites like these for a breaking story that I know in my heart of hearts will never be solid.

Us non experiencers could be part of the ploy governments initiated to keep us in check like what religion did in the dark ages.

I'm yet to meet someone with no belief. Sure I know many that question their belief...


Perhaps belief is the cornerstone of life, an essential part of existance.

I think this will always be an evolving phenomena, if its conscious awareness, so be it. Its fair to assume because in this day and age communication is king and we can express our ideas, experiences and not neccessarily believe everything that is forced upon us by popular belief, society, our parents, authorative & educational figures.






[edit on 9-11-2006 by one_small_step]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 05:15 PM
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Pokey Oats

Ultimately, everyone is part of the puzzle because this process of our race meeting other races concerns everyone on Earth.

Although not all humans have personal contact with another race, many more have contact and don't know it than the number of those who have it and do know it. Most never figure it out- and of those who do, most misunderstand it and reject it. In discovery, the fascination often comes first, like from deep inside ourselves, before we consciously even know we are personally involved.

You could have contact and not know it. If so, there is a reason for both of these things. And if and when it's time for you to know on a physical level, it will be made perfectly clear to you. Many people who find out just run in the wrong direction with it and never progress- so for many, it's more productive for them not to know.

Be careful not to confuse the spiritual aspect of alien contact with religion. Religion and spirituality are not the same thing. We are all spirit first and foremost no matter what we believe or experience on a physical level. Alien contact is always by spirit, and only sometimes also physical because of the differences in our biological and atmospheric needs. That we are all spirit and active at all times as spirit is the nature of all life, only just coming to light for some humans through their contact with further evolved and advanced races of people than themselves.

You don't have to have alien contact to discover the spiritual nature of life, but the races who are ahead of us in evolution and visiting Earth have a lot of different kinds of things they can help us learn. And this is now their singular intention for every member of our race, despite ourselves.



[edit on 11/9/2006 by EarthSister]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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Firstly I would like to thank everyone who has answered this thread so far, your responses have been wonderful.

probedbygrays, thank you for your contribution, it is appreciated. However, do you really believe that it is the new religion that everyone wants to be a part of.

One of the points I was trying to raise in my initial post is that there are people out there, myself included, who have not actually experienced contact with an alien or seen a UFO but are truly compelled towards the subject matter. I can honestly say that I feel as if I can't leave this subject matter alone. The point of my relaying my childhood experience was to show that even though the images in my father's books terrified me, I was still compelled to want to keep reading them.

I do however agree that there are those that are looking for a religion which allows them to have faith in benevolent aliens that will come save the day and make their world (note: I didn't say “the world”) so much better. I think we can all agree that these people exist and indeed Egotosum summed up their behavior perfectly in his reply.

Let's move on though to those of us that are hungry. Hungry for reasons that we just don't understand.

Segalindoa mentioned that reading my opinions was like reading his own. I can echo those sentiments perfectly as reading his post echoed within me because I to am as drawn to the "POSITVE PROOF" threads as he/she is and suffer the same amount of inevitable disappointment.

Segalindoa also makes a fantastic point in that the UFO phenomenon can be captured, recorded, seen and verified. But as so many have pointed out, 60 years on we're still subject to the same blurry pictures that remain inconclusive. And yet we never give up, instead we hang on waiting for the day that we see that perfect picture, the undeniable proof. Let's face it, in any other subject matter the constant disappointment would have most of us walking away, yet we persist.

Earthsister then makes another interesting point that perhaps as non-experiencers we have been contacted but for reasons we cannot know why are specifically meant to not know, or ever know. A valid point but as a non-experiencer, a frustrating one because our eagerness to know is paramount.

Then one_small_step makes the most interesting suggestion which is the direction I was subtly trying to move this thread into.


Originally posted by one_small_step
"I think this will always be an evolving phenomena, if its conscious awareness, so be it."


Are we non-experiencers somehow more consciously aware? Is there something about our personality, intelligence or nature that has us being drawn, lured or called into this subject matter by “them”? As I mentioned in the initial post this kind of thinking starts to move into the "spiritual" aspect of Aliens but is it relevant none the less?

Is there something about us non-believers that is attractive to “them” and does that therefore make us part of the puzzle?

Pokey Oats


[edit on 9-11-2006 by Pokey Oats]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Pokey Oats

probedbygrays, do you really believe that it is the new religion that everyone wants to be a part of.



Yes, and many researchers have concluded that the alien/UFO phenomenon shows all the traits of a new religion in the making. It has all the necessary ingredients.

When I said 'everyone' I was of course referring to all the people who are part of the UFO/alien community even though they've never had an encounter.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by probedbygrays
When I said 'everyone' I was of course referring to all the people who are part of the UFO/alien community even though they've never had an encounter.


I fear you may not be reading my lengthy posts.

I am someone that is fascianted by UFOs and ETs and yet I have not had an encounter. Honestly, I find it insulting that you are implying that I wish only to be part of a new religion as this is far from the truth.

I have no desire at all to worship nor do I consider aliens deities.

I worked very hard on my last post to point out that there are those like me who are fascinated and as Segalindoa said this is a subject that "You can touch it, measure it, photograph it, tape it, smell it, kick it, etc."

Perhaps he nailed it. Perhaps it is the lure of evidence, undeniable evidence, that motivates our curiosity. But then again maybe it's something more. This is what I wish to be discussed in this thread.

Pokey Oats



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by Pokey Oats

what is it about us "non-experiencers" that compels us towards the subject matter and prolongs our curiosity?

................... after viewing many of these documentaries and interviews I cannot deny the number of "witnesses" that profess a "spiritual nature" to the phenomenon, which I'm finding harder to ignore.

I am still not convinced of the spiritual aspect but I have at least reached a stage where I can be more open-minded and say that "I know so little about the universe and reality, who am I to dictate how it 'should' be."


I believe it's a new religion which involves high tech beings that can physically save our species. And in fact there is evidence to suggest they have many humans on their ships who will be saved from planetary destruction.




Originally posted by Pokey Oats

I am someone that is fascianted by UFOs and ETs and yet I have not had an encounter. Honestly, I find it insulting that you are implying that I wish only to be part of a new religion as this is far from the truth.

I have no desire at all to worship nor do I consider aliens deities.

I worked very hard on my last post to point out that there are those like me who are fascinated and as Segalindoa said this is a subject that "You can touch it, measure it, photograph it, tape it, smell it, kick it, etc."

Perhaps he nailed it. Perhaps it is the lure of evidence, undeniable evidence, that motivates our curiosity. But then again maybe it's something more. This is what I wish to be discussed in this thread.

Pokey Oats


Religion is much more than worshipping deities. Christ said worshipping him is futile. Christ never worshipped God. Just because something is a religion don't mean people have to worship there. Religion can be simply a powerful belief system involving beings from outside our known reality. We can believe in it and support it by buying the books etc and visiting sites like this, but we don't actually worship it.

I'm not saying you or anyone is looking to worship aliens. I'm saying this is a new religion involving countless followers who are seeking proof of contact, or actual contact, with off-world beings.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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Well Pokey oats, its good to hear I am not the only one very disappointed to most of the "evidence of..." posts.I too have been deeply fascinated by the subject of ufos since I was 8 or 9.I also have never exprienced ANY odd phenomenon.But it just seems to make sense to me we are not the only life in the universe.Alot of folks say that aliens are fallen angels or demons.I have to disagree with that.I think they are mortal beings just like us.Some are good some are bad ,also like us.Some day we will have our solid proof,hopefully in our lifetime!BTW awesome thread!



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by probedbygrays
I believe it's a new religion which involves high tech beings that can physically save our species. And in fact there is evidence to suggest they have many humans on their ships who will be saved from planetary destruction.


And yet I don't. I believe, make that know, that many people like to sit cross-legged on the ground with their crystals believing they're talking to aliens. This is not me, nor could it ever be.

As per some other posts in this thread as well, others see it my way too. They're fascinated and desperate for conclusive evidence but this fascination does not a religion make.

I however wanted to expand upon it and see if any others had any theories if perhaps those of us non-experiencers who are so fascinated may be so ... for a reason.

As I have tried very hard to explain, this is the link to the spiritual component I am trying to make. I.e. are us non-believers perhaps being summoned, or called, or propelled towards this subject matter for a reason... Are we a piece of the puzzle?

I would even argue that non-believers are more significant. Experiencers have the benefit of something substantial that makes them believe. And yet we non-experiencers have to investigate evidence, use logic and dig deep into our souls to find out what we believe.

If the aliens get off on faith or logical conclusion, then us non-believers are really giving them something to, umm, get excited over.. hehe


Originally posted by probedbygrays
Religion is much more than worshipping deities. Christ said worshipping him is futile. Christ never worshipped God.


That is not correct.

Worship is defined as: reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

Hallowed is defined as: regarded as holy; venerated; sacred: Hallowed be Thy name; the hallowed saints; our hallowed political institutions.

Holy is defined as: entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic.

"Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
But deliver us from evil:
[For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.] Amen."

Given the clear definition of the terms provided above, The Lord's Prayer is a definite example of Christ providing Worship to "the Father".


Originally posted by probedbygrays
I'm not saying you or anyone is looking to worship aliens. I'm saying this is a new religion involving countless followers who are seeking proof of contact, or actual contact, with off-world beings.


Despite allowing myself to be distracted by demonstrating that Christ did indeed Worship I must respectfully ask that you please keep to the question that I asked, and thus the original point of my thread.

I was not looking to discuss whether UFOs and Aliens are a new religion. Nor am I that interested in the opinions of people who believe it to be a new religion.

Rather, I was looking for feedback regarding the role of the non-experiencer. What motivates us, what inspires us to keep searching, do other non-experiencers find themselves unable to look away from the subject matter as I do?

Is it perhaps "them", somehow, calling us for a reason we simply do not know yet or are we just those of a particular personality type?

Pokey Oats



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:58 PM
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Crowpruitt, thank you for contributing to the thread.

It's great to know that you understand me, and I you. Care to elaborate though, what was it as a child that fascinated you about the subject and what keeps you exploring the posibillity now.

I agree totally that it makes sense that there is vast amounts of life in the universe but do you feel compelled to find out. Do you think you could ever walk away from the subject one day because you became bored of it?

Or do you feel you will never be able to walk away? Like Ahab pursuing Moby Dick no matter how many times the "undeniable proof" lets us down will you keep trying to hunt down that white whale?

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you're enjoying this thread.

Pokey Oats



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 11:45 PM
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I'm sorry but I don't want to waste another moment on this thread.




[edit on 9-11-2006 by probedbygrays]

[edit on 10-11-2006 by probedbygrays]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 11:48 PM
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Double post




[edit on 9-11-2006 by probedbygrays]



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 12:15 AM
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Well Pokey oats when I was younger my dad used to talk about ufos.He was retired from the airforce.I asked him if he ever saw any and he said no but he knew people who have.From then on I was hooked,so much that I asked for a telescope for christmas.As I got older it just made more sense to me that there is alot of space up there so there has got to be more life than just us,and no matter how much I am let down I will always believe that.As far as it being a new "religion" well thats not me.I believe in God and Jesus Christ was the son of god.God made ALL things including alien life.Where we fit in this puzzle,I have no idea.But I do remember watching a tv show on ufos once,and there was a guy saying that there are people on Earth that have ET souls and don"t know it.He said if you have a deep interest in outerspace and strongly believe in ET life you may have an ET soul.Ever hear anything like that?



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by probedbygrays
I'm sorry but I don't want to waste another moment on this thread.


So that's what happens when someone shows you're wrong?

No matter what religion, it won't give you any proof of your beliefs. Because, as has been said before, all religions are based on faith not knowledge. Anyway, if you want to make a religion out of this... go ahead, it's up to you.



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 01:24 PM
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As per some other posts in this thread as well, others see it my way too. They're fascinated and desperate for conclusive evidence but this fascination does not a religion make.


Exactly pokey. It has some hallmarks of a religion, but it's the quite the same. The concept is different. Religion has to do with the belief in the creator of all that is (God). UFOs didn't necessarily create reality, they're just a more intelligent entity within it. Plus there is alot more evidence for UFOs than for God. Pretty simple.



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by crowpruitt
I believe in God and Jesus Christ was the son of god.God made ALL things including alien life.Where we fit in this puzzle,I have no idea.But I do remember watching a tv show on ufos once,and there was a guy saying that there are people on Earth that have ET souls and don"t know it.He said if you have a deep interest in outerspace and strongly believe in ET life you may have an ET soul.


crowpruitt

From all I know from my own experiences with many visiting races and other kinds of spiritual beings, you are exactly right in your thinking.

Though few accept active contact, almost half the population of Earth is "some kind" of alien experiencer. Ten percent of these are directly related by spirit to another race of people. This means they were in life in another race on another world previous to this life here. The rest of the alien experiencers are offspring of the ten percent, having inherited from their human ancestors the relationship by spirit and opportunity for personal contact.

Personal contact is not random because that would be an interruption and violation to our lives at this young point in our evolution. In the future, more humans unrelated will be able to take on more roles working between our worlds.



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