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Who's Conspiracy is it?

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posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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I have a question for the Masons here in particular.

I know that in Masonry the Pheonix is really important You know the one with the Banner and Sword that ominously cites Ordo Ab Chao. I've had family members come and go from the Masons and I've been immersed in the symbolism all my life.

Why is it this symbol keeps reappearing throughout history? I believe that on the whole Masonry isn't involved in these conspiracies and the internal demolition of the WTC however this symbol just keeps popping up so much it can't be ignored.

Russia's national Emblem is the Masonic Twin Headed pheonix.
America's emblems are the Eagle but it also looks alot like the Pheonix. Especially on the 33rd cent postal stamp from the 30's. (The american flag with the Pheonix on top) Same as the Eagle/Pheonix that is the 33rd Mason Medal. 32nd is a Cross if I'm not mistaken.

Imperial Germany used the Eagle/Pheonix, Hitler Used the Pheonix and Germany to this day continues to do so. , Poland aswell...

Its well known now that Saddam was an asset of the CIA (highsight is 20/20 as they say) and funny enough he adopted his symbol to be the Pheonix.

Napoleon also used the Pheonix as his symbol and he was a documented Mason.

Egpyt's current symbol is the Pheonix.

The One Dollar Bill not Only has a Pheonix/Eagle but also a pyramid and both these symbols even go back to the new Israeli Supreme Court.

So with all this symbolism who's conspiracy is it? Again I know that on the whole Masons aren't involved in all this stuff but if the world's rulers just happen to be apart of it along with many other secret societies well that wouldn't surprise me.

Who's behind this rehashing of the Pheonix? I haven't even begun to really scratch the surface. The symbolism is just absolutely everywhere. I can't ignore it so I had to question it...




posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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This could be interesting.....

What is the primary meaning of the Pheonix, anyway?

I would say Rebirth through Fire.

That goes back along time if you look at all the people through time who have worshipped fire in some form through the ages.

There are definitely a few pieces of the puzzle missing.

Maybe some of our fellow ATS minds can shed some "light" on this inquery of yours.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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The phoenix plays no role in freemasonry. It might be something to do with the Scottish Rite but you would have to ask a member.

The phoenix is known as a symbol of rebirth, and in mosty instances where it is used I would imagine that is the reason.

Incidentally it looks like you are superimposing the eagle and the phoenix. Just so there is no doubt, the eagle does not appear in freemasonry either, and I am only aware of one use in Royal Arch Masonry based on the following...


Ezekiel 1:9-11

...and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved. Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out upward; each had two wings, one touching the wing of another creature on either side, and two wings covering its body.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
I have a question for the Masons here in particular.

Why is it this symbol keeps reappearing throughout history?


The Eagle

To the Roman Army the most important standard in each legion was the legionary eagle, made of a precious metal (usually silver) and symbol of the power of Rome and the honor of the legion. To lose the legionary eagle in battle was a terrible disgrace, and leaders like Augustus who succeeded in recovering captured legionary eagles capitalized on the propaganda value of the event.
The eagle was chosen as a symbol because it reflected Roman ambitions: it always nests in high places with water nearby and it is Master of all it surveys.
They also used the Wolf as a symbol for similar reasons.

The Phoenix

Also known widely as the Fire Bird, the phoenix is a profound symbol of life and rebirth. It has a life cycle of 500 to 600 years. It is a completely benign creature who lives in dew. It is said that the phoenix has a beautiful melodious song which grows ever more mournful as its life comes to an end. It is also a symbol of the sun and immortality.
The Egyptian phoenix was said to be as large as an eagle, with brilliant scarlet and gold plumage. Only one phoenix existed at a time, As its end approached, it built a nest of aromatic boughs and spices, set it on fire, and was consumed in the flames. From the pyre was born a new phoenix, which sealed its predecessor's ashes in an egg of myrrh and flew to Heliopolis to deposit them on the altar of the sun god. The phoenix thus symbolized immortality.
It is believed that Ancient Egyptians followed both a 365-day solar civil calendar and a lunar religious calendar.
The Egyptians had no "leap year": every year a fragmnet of a day which was left over at New Year was saved up, untill finallyafter 1460 years(called a Sothic year) the fragments amounted to a whole year: The Year of the Phoenix.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by interestedalways

That goes back along time if you look at all the people through time who have worshipped fire in some form through the ages.



I think this is more or less correct. The original poster did not differentiate between the phoenix and the eagle, which must be done in order to correctly understand the symbolism. The official symbol of the 32° of the Scottish Rite is a Double Headed Eagle, wearing the Greek letter Delta as armor, in which is enclosed the number 32. The symbol of the 33° is almost identical, except the eagle is crowned, and the number in the Delta is 33.

The phoenix appears as a symbol in the Pike version of the ritual of the 32° in the Southern Jurisdiction. The ceremony of the degree recounts the history of the religious and philosophical thought of the Persian and Median Magi, who worshiped fire as a manifestation of Ahura Mazda, the Benificent Creator.

Ahura Mazda was represented as a Phoenix by the Magi, as we see in these photos:





The "ominous citation" Ordo ab Chao is itself a Latinized verse from the Zend Avesta, the holy book of the Magi, written by the Magian Prophet Zarathustra (Zoroaster), where it is said that Ahura Mazda created Order from Chaos at the beginning of Time.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman



The phoenix plays no role in Freemasonry. It might be something to do with the Scottish Rite, but you would have to ask a member.


Are you saying that the Scottish Rite has nothing to do with Freemasonry?




Originally posted by Belinquest



From the pyre was born a new phoenix, which sealed its predecessor's ashes in an egg of myrrh and flew to Heliopolis to deposit them on the altar of the sun god.

An egg of Myrrh. What an interesting thing.




The Egyptians had no "leap year": every year a fragmnet of a day which was left over at New Year was saved up, untill finallyafter 1460 years(called a Sothic year) the fragments amounted to a whole year: The Year of the Phoenix.

Do you know when will be the next year of the Phoenix will be?

Masonic Light, I noticed the word Portal under the picture you provided of Ahura Mazda, do you know anything about that?

I am just learning to quote so I apologize for the slopiness.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 07:53 AM
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Are you saying that the Scottish Rite has nothing to do with Freemasonry?

No, I'm not saying that at all. The SR, as an Appendent Order, is certainly masonic; but pure antient freemasonry consists of just the three degrees (including the Holy Royal Arch if you come from England
).

Some Appendent Orders are recognized by some Grand Lodges, and some are not. Neither the York Rite nor the Scottish Rite exist in the UK in the same form as they are practised in the US, and the two terms mean nothing to British freemasons.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by interestedalways


The Egyptians had no "leap year": every year a fragmnet of a day which was left over at New Year was saved up, untill finallyafter 1460 years(called a Sothic year) the fragments amounted to a whole year: The Year of the Phoenix.

Do you know when will be the next year of the Phoenix will be?


There is a lot of controversy over dates but if the world still exists the next year should be around 3060CE



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways

Masonic Light, I noticed the word Portal under the picture you provided of Ahura Mazda, do you know anything about that?


It's a link to the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 06:14 PM
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It's a link to the Wikipedia article on Zoroastrianism.


That's deep.

So are we done talking about the Pheonix?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Getting back to the Pheonix/ Eagle. We keep seeing this symbol all over the place. Throughout history, throughout the world today.

Who here thinks that it's just a coincidence with nothing behind it? And second is it true that in 1841 the Eagle replaced the Pheonix as the national bird?



posted on Oct, 26 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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It's not to hard to grasp the concept behind fire and it's potential to create and destroy and transform and even baptismally.

But why would you worship it? Why would people worship the Sun when it is an object. Does fire have some kind of other meaning? Does the Sun?

Is there some big secret hiding behind the idea of rebirth through fire?



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
It's not to hard to grasp the concept behind fire and it's potential to create and destroy and transform and even baptismally.

But why would you worship it? Why would people worship the Sun when it is an object. Does fire have some kind of other meaning? Does the Sun?

Is there some big secret hiding behind the idea of rebirth through fire?



According to Albert Pike and the other mystics, the ancient sages worshiped the Deity under the symbol of fire and the sun, while the profane worshiped the sun and fire themselves. This was apparently the purpose of the Ancient Mysteries, that the true religion (monotheistic worship of the Unseen) had to be done in secret to prevent persecution from the ignorant masses.

Socrates is the perfect example. He denied the literal existence, and was accused of atheism and corrupting the young. Whereas the Initiates worshiped the One to whom fire and light was a symbol, the people began worshiping the fire and light as if they were gods, which led to superstition and theological foolishness. As Pike wrote in his version of the 32° ceremony, the symbols of the wise always become the idols of the vulgar.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

[
According to Albert Pike and the other mystics, the ancient sages worshiped the Deity under the symbol of fire and the sun, while the profane worshiped the sun and fire themselves.

Whereas the Initiates worshiped the One to whom fire and light was a symbol, the people began worshiping the fire and light as if they were gods

the symbols of the wise always become the idols of the vulgar.


I chopped up your post a bit Masonic Light. Still learning to quote properly...

I had never thought of it like that. Thank you for putting it in perspective. I would guess that Deity to be Lucifer in some form.

In attempting to understand "As above, So below" I am beginning to see their is a significant amount of meaning to the stories of a female being taken to the underworld to spend half of their time or an amount of time before returning to the upper realms and that this process has to do with being reborn with a new understanding. Does this have to do with the other Diety the ancients choose to hold in such esteem?

Why doesn't anyone want to name this Diety?




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