Originally posted by johnsky
I must disagree with some of that.
SETI is still a scientific organization, plain and simple. All scientific organizations test things that might be theoretically possible. The key
phrase is might be.
Of all the things that might be theoretically possible ( in terms of aliens trying to communicate with us) what SETI is doing is pretty damn stupid
and generally backwards.
The fact that they had to use an inconclusive statistical calculation, is merely proof of the publics lack of patience, and unwillingness to
allow anything to be done that hasn't already been tried and proven.
Why does the public always get blamed for things science deliberately tries to keep beyond their reach?
It's that very same sort of thinking that keeps holding science back.
The only serious problem scientific advancement faces is the government funded science institutions of the western world.
Some people are simply too stupid to understand how to deduce a statistic out of the given data you have. It's called formulating a
conclusion... Micheal here seems to be left a little behind on his theoretical maths.
"Lies, damned lies and statistics" sums up how i feel about that 'field' ( i'm being generous). With statistics you can say anything you want
based entirely on what data you decided to include. Formulating 'conclusions' is as dumb as it sounds as in those instances it's pretty clear that
the conclusion was reached long before the data that could lead to it was assembled. Michael seems to have a very good idea of what's going on in big
If we knew everything about the Universe such that we COULD give a Solid justification for SETI... We wouldnt need SETI anymore would
So since we are not sure what is going on we pick stupid ways to investigate the unknown? Explain the logic involved...
SETI is simply doing what all branches of science are doing. Testing the unproven. Trying the undone.
In a way you are correct as so much of our sciences are way off course and investigating fantastic delusions of their own construction.
They are in no way a religion. They don't tell you to believe, they are simply telling you, we'll find them.
When you control what people know about the sciences ( schooling,university, research grants,degrees) you can to a great extent dictate what will be
investigated and in what ways and once that system is in place the investigation of reality no longer has to be your aim. If you can explain how the
science establishment is generally against a new idea for the first few decades before it 'admits' ( actually they just sorta pretend that they
always knew it) to the mistake i can listen but until then i know who's preventing the future from happening right now.
As I mentioned, the only reason they had to use incomplete statistical data to justify their actions, is because the public is too impatient
for someone to justify their actions.
The only reason anyone uses incomplete data when they have so much at stake is because they know they can get away with it and will be supported.
Honest to god real science ( like cold fusion, vacuum energy, continental drift, hygine in medicine) has to fight for every single point it
introduces, and dozens it never suggested, to try shift the prevailing ideologues to the truth while pure nonsense like global warming and dangerous
second hand smoke can gain scientific acceptance based on no facts at all. Stop blaming average people who suffer most, because they actually have to
work for a living and don't have the time or interest to invest in the sciences, to get by why these people make up whatever fantastic nonsense they
get paid to for.
The old, "lets go after the witch with a pitchfork" routine. All because they are too ignorant to allow science to do what it likes, and, as
usual, horribly afraid that science may prove yet another part of the bible wrong.
Heresy is alive and well in the world but these days the church does not have to get involved as scientist will burn their own when they step out of
line and say things they are not allowed to. If we allow science to do what it wants the pace of scientific discovery will accelerate no end as the
only thing that is currently holding us back is those who choose what sort of investigation will happen.
We can't allow that, can we? It seems we would rather live a 2000 year old lie, than change it in the slightest.
Nonsense. People are as open minded as their environment allows them to be and it's IMO almost entirely the fault of the prevailing scientific
dogma's that we are stuck in the situation we are. For the absolute majority of people religion is a tool to be used when it suits their interest but
it's obvious that there are alternative religions practiced by others that does not help you feel very secure. The sciences have a MASSIVE advantage
as you normally hear not a word about the alternatives the current 'reality' were chosen over those creating a framework where there is no known
alternatives for most people. Scientific dogma dictating one belief over another is a far more comprehensive danger to a human mind than religion is
as religious principles are generally so poorly defined and open to interpretation so as to become generally not restrictive.
With or without the statistical justification SETI has given, I whole heartedly want them to keep doing what they are doing. I dont care if
there is such a small chance of life being out there that the chances are we would never find them, I still want them to continue doing what they are
We convincingly know that life is 'out there' and also that there is no reason to go very far to look for it ( and looking that far with such
equipment = waste of time which i believe to be their real aim) far away when we managed to find it on Mars already. I don't care if the chance for
intelligent life out there is in fact very small but to go about looking for it with radio telescopes makes a mockery of common sense.
Why? Becuase as with the rest of science, we cannot put our foot down, simply because we don't like something about it.
Then why do we allow our science 'leaders' to lie and cheat to hide most of reality from us? Generally the average bloke in the street does not care
much, know much or are interested in finding out much more as his life has been structured by his environment ( friends/TV/schooling/politics) to
focus on very different things.
I don't really understand this guy's motives for attacking SETI anyhow, what has SETI ever done that could be harmful to us?
By keeping out attention focused on something that is on the whole a dumb idea that could never in a million years provide positive proof, that the
average person or even scientist could or would believe, even if they were not conditioned to believe the opposite. We have photo's of standing
water on Mars yet the science community simple refuses to believe that it's possible! If anyone believes radio signals can change prevailing dogma's
they do not really understand how the science establishment works.
The only people that have a reason to be afraid of SETI are the bible thumpers.
I think you should stick to chear leading as it seems evident to me that you would not be on the side of true scientific investigation.
[edit on 8-10-2006 by StellarX]