ever heard of ORMUS? you will want to have...

Byrd, you discredit ORMUS ?

If you eat Calf or Pig brain it contains ORMUS, which is healthy for your brain and immune system. So are you discrediting ORMUS which can come from anything from Concord grapes to soybeans or are you discrediting monatomic gold.

According to your link, people only got sick from the seawater. Anyone can get sick off of seawater, you just have to be careful where you purchase these products. I'm currently taking colloidal gold and it works wonders. I cannot describe how well it works. My energy levels and memory are greatly affected. Just watch where you buy this stuff. I just ordered some from ZEROPOINT TECHNOLOGIES .

You only get the toxic gold chloride when you screw up, and don't finish the process of correcting the mistake.

I've never had any negative effects caused by gold, or by any other ormus.

Here's a good source: M-state

I haven't tried the rhodium or iridium yet. I remember reading an article about how these two elements are present in our brains, I think they had something to do with superconductivity and consciousness. Sounds like a GREAT meditation aid.

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
Byrd, you discredit ORMUS ?

You betcha.

If you eat Calf or Pig brain it contains ORMUS, which is healthy for your brain and immune system. So are you discrediting ORMUS which can come from anything from Concord grapes to soybeans or are you discrediting monatomic gold.

Both.

Did you notice that you're never actually TOLD what Orumus is?
www.subtleenergies.com...

They suggest it's some sort of state, and tie it in with superfluid bosons. A bit of reading shows that they have no clue about the conditions that are needed for these states of matter. (I know... you don't have to know these things, but since one of the lessons I teach to school programs is about states of matter, I really do have to know this stuff and to be able to answer student questions.)

What you're seeing on those pages you cited is NOT science or chemistry... it's the same kind of thinking that goes on here in Skunk Works. There's sweeping generalizations about what the substances are. There's no real hard evidence.

To explain this, they say that these elements "masquerade as other elements." On the Zeropoint website, they announce that actually these things are a "new physical state" ... one that somehow they (with no equipment) discovered that ordinary chemists and chemistry students somehow failed to ever discover.

According to your link, people only got sick from the seawater.

Actually, that was your link. I just read the other pges.

Anyone can get sick off of seawater, you just have to be careful where you purchase these products. I'm currently taking colloidal gold and it works wonders. I cannot describe how well it works. My energy levels and memory are greatly affected. Just watch where you buy this stuff. I just ordered some from ZEROPOINT TECHNOLOGIES .

The power of belief is huge. People can (and have) sold grass clippings and many other things to people, and these people felt good after taking them. The site says it's "alchemy" and not chemistry.

You can get the same results using B vitamins, which your body DOES need... and much more cheaply, I might add.

Originally posted by Byrd
The power of belief is huge. People can (and have) sold grass clippings and many other things to people, and these people felt good after taking them. The site says it's "alchemy" and not chemistry.

This would be what we call the "placebo affect". Good catch Byrd. I was about to say all of what you did, so I'm glad someone got here before I did. Only thing that I think I could add here is that if all of these so-called "Ormus elements" are in everything that we ingest normally, why should we bother extracting them, when we can just go about our normal eating/drinking/consumption habits, and still retain the same things?

Just a couple problems with this stuff is all.

TheBorg

[Edited for punctuation.]

[edit on 28-4-2007 by TheBorg]

Some Ormus does work, and it can hold nutritional value. Check out these links involving the use of ormus as a plant fertilizer.

Walnuts
Sea-Crop

This link will show a good amount of pictures if you click on one of the four categories: field crops, orchard, vegetables & fruit, home & garden.
C-Gro

I've used C-11 and C-Gro with incredible success. How could you deny the evidence with plants?

Originally posted by Uplifted
Some Ormus does work, and it can hold nutritional value. Check out these links involving the use of ormus as a plant fertilizer.

How can it work if they don't know what it is? Seriously. All the things I see say it's some "mysterious state" that "hasn't been found by science". So how do they know it exists?

If there's no test for it, how do they know their information is accurate?

This link will show a good amount of pictures if you click on one of the four categories: field crops, orchard, vegetables & fruit, home & garden.

I did. What I don't notice is proof that only this was used and that it was done under a large-scale condition (differences in areas of the ground change growth rates of plants. There are two pecan trees in my yard that we planted 10 years ago. One is now 20 feet tall, the other only 15 feet. One produced pecans earlier than the other one did. They were not treated differently... so you see how the difference in plant genetics and site can change things.

You get around this by growing plants in labs and using clones of the same plant so that genetic differences in size and growth aren't just a matter of different genetics.

I've used C-11 and C-Gro with incredible success. How could you deny the evidence with plants?

How do you know that the difference wasn't due simply to a good brand of fertilizer (they keep the ingredients a "secret") and your own attention to these "special" plants?

I did look up their info, and frankly most of it appears to be inaccurate. Sea salt is not good for most plants, which is why you can't grow most crops successfully right next to the ocean. The land has to be desalinated (usually by planting and harvesting salt-tolerant plants.) You can try this for yourself by watering your poor plants with a mix of distilled water and sea salt.


The website spins a charming tale, but when you cut through the charm, you find that they've got
* a "product" (with no known formulation)
* that they swear contains ORMUS
* which is material in a "state unknown to science"
* they say ORMUS is undetectable because the elements masquerade as other elements (without explaining how you can get something with 2 protons to pretend it's not Helium)
* you buy this product ... with no listing of what the ingredients are. How do you know what's in there?

One "red flag" is this statement on their site:

Yes, SEA-CROP has been certified by the Washington State Department of Agriculture Organic Food Program as being in compliance with the United States Department of Agriculture National Organic Program.

In fact, the Washington State Dept of Agriculture has done no such thing. You can look it up here:
agr.wa.gov...

If they meant that it is a substance that meets all the requirements on the "things usable in organic farming" list (there's bunches of them), then it's one of the products here...and they are publicizing with a very misleading statement:
agr.wa.gov...

On their testing -- ergh. As a scientist, I do have something to say about that:
www.sea-crop.com...

The "forcing 4 week old mice to swim until they drown from exhaustion" is brutal, ineffective, and unnecessary -- and frankly wouldn't be permitted in most US labs. You feed them, swiftly and humanely kill them and then run tests on the bodies or feed them and run stress and exercise tests on the, but you do not kill them with the exercise.

Sorry. I'm about to go into a rant about this. I'll do (insert token rant about brutal and senseless torture of lab animals that would get most profs kicked out of the university) and go on.

The "Netherlands study" is equally flawed. No company is mentioned and the methodology is also suspect. There's no info on the group and the control group, what breed they were, etc, etc. No stats. Just "a study" which you are told took place. When I use the Dutch version of Google and google only pages from the Netherlands, "Sea Corp" is not mentioned anywhere. No information on how they delivered this product to the chicks (unless they injected or forced them to drink (okay... imagine hand-forcing medical doses down the throats of 250,000 chicks each and every day)).

There's some very serious questions here and the info I see indicates some scientifically unethical practices and sloppy research.

There is nothing to rant about really. Buy the gold in form of choice and experience it yourselves. What I experience is far from the placebo effect. See for yourselves.

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
There is nothing to rant about really. Buy the gold in form of choice and experience it yourselves. What I experience is far from the placebo effect. See for yourselves.

Well, you should know what I'm going to say here then.

That's exactly what I would expect anyone to say that believes that they are taking something that helps them, when in fact they're taking nothing of any medical value. That is the definition of the Placebo Effect. You're mind is a very powerful thing; it CAN heal things that you don't think it can, just by thinking about it. No, no studies have been done on it, well not extensive ones anyway, but it does happen.

The point here is that there's this thing called "mind over matter", and it's a very real phenomena. It's more readily called "the power of suggestion". You believe wholeheartedly that these "Ormus elements" are healing you? That's fine. Use them if you want, but why are these people trying so desperately to sell them? It sounds to me like some sort of hoax.

For example, if I stumble across Zero point energy, do you think that I'd be able to sell it to anyone? It's not worth anything when everyone can get as much of it as they want, hence being called FREE energy. This is just one more topic that needs to be exposed for what it really is, a sham.

TheBorg

Dude, you don't seem to get it. Ormus is just about everywhere. It's in soil, all natural water, organisms, etc.

Here's another link for those who don't know the basics.Basics

The site says it's "alchemy" and not chemistry.

Actually, alchemy is basically just a name for a branch of ancient chemistry. Ancient alchemists are most often known for being able to "make" gold. In reality, all they did was process gold ormus out of oceans and seas, they then melted it into a larger whole.

Ormus is no mystery, its just very small forms of regular elements. You can't deny something you obviously don't know anything about. If you knew anything about ormus, you would know that there are many different kinds. You seem to think of it as one element. Some can help us, some can harm us, and some can't do anything to us.

I've e-mailed the Washington Department of Agriculture about Sea-Crop, I guess we'll see if that site is crap.

Sea salt is not good for most plants, which is why you can't grow most crops successfully right next to the ocean.

It is not sea salt. It is ormus. The ormus is attached to the salt when the water is evaporated, then the ormus is removed from the salt.

All of my plant experiments are in containers, I used clones from the same plant (just as the site experiments used), and my plants received the same lighting and temperature. I had 25 plants in soil with ormus, 25 in soil without ormus, 25 in a hydroponic lab with ormus, and 25 in a hydro lab without ormus. Only the hydroponic plants received non-ormus fertilizers, this is because hydro requires fertilizer use. The hydroponic fertilizer use was minimal. All of the water used was distilled, ormus-free water.

Originally posted by Uplifted
Dude, you don't seem to get it. Ormus is just about everywhere. It's in soil, all natural water, organisms, etc.

Here's another link for those who don't know the basics.Basics

The site says it's "alchemy" and not chemistry.

Actually, alchemy is basically just a name for a branch of ancient chemistry. Ancient alchemists are most often known for being able to "make" gold. In reality, all they did was process gold ormus out of oceans and seas, they then melted it into a larger whole.

Ormus is no mystery, its just very small forms of regular elements. You can't deny something you obviously don't know anything about. If you knew anything about ormus, you would know that there are many different kinds. You seem to think of it as one element. Some can help us, some can harm us, and some can't do anything to us.

I've e-mailed the Washington Department of Agriculture about Sea-Crop, I guess we'll see if that site is crap.

Ok, right here, you equate Ormus elements to chemistry, via alchemy. To be quite honest with you, I know a thing or two about chemistry. For you to presume that I know nothing of that subject just goes to show how easily you're mind can be led to a false conclusion.

All that I've contended from the outset of this thread is that if Ormus elements are everywhere, as you and others claim, then why should I have to extract them to reap the benefits? Can't I just consume the normal things that I consume, and get my "daily dose" of the stuff for my own health?

Also, you and the other advocates here have failed to provide any real legitimate sources of evidence for these claims. Provide something that we can go on, and we might be more interested. As always with a new idea, the burden of proof is on the one that brings forth the new concept.

TheBorg

All that I've contended from the outset of this thread is that if Ormus elements are everywhere, as you and others claim, then why should I have to extract them to reap the benefits?

Extraction is not always needed. There are devices called magnetic bubblers. Grape juice or cocanut milk will work great in this way, only one glass is usually needed. More than one glass of magnetized grape juice can give you a headache. Sometimes an extraction is needed, like if there is not enough ormus present to make a difference. Ormus benefits are recieved naturally all the time, just not in huge doses usually.

Sea-Crop IS certified organic. If proof is needed, just e-mail for [email protected] for confirmation.

I just sent an e-mail to an expert on ormus, Barry Carter, and I'll try to get some links backing up actual scientific research.

Originally posted by Uplifted
I just sent an e-mail to an expert on ormus, Barry Carter, and I'll try to get some links backing up actual scientific research.

Please do that, because I'm just having a hard time believing any of this stuff is even realistically possible. In almost every case where Ormus elements are mentioned, some sort of extraction method is needed to get enough of them that they are beneficial. If they are elements that help us, we call those vitamins. Vitamins are an essential part of our health, as they allow our bodies to effectively fight illness, as well as keep our bodies fit.

To suggest that there is some mystical means to gain more from nature than is normally allowed requires more than just mere supposition and half-hearted personal experiences. If you want to get anyone else interested in these "Ormus elements", perhaps your best method of communicating would be to provide the burden of proof that we've all asked for, so that we may make an educated decision.

I just find it incredibly narrow-minded of anyone to just assume that we'll just believe anyone's word without proof. In the effort to "Deny Ignorance", I must seek the truth, whatever that may entail. I'm willing to admit that there MAY be some sort of elements out there that we know nothing about; hell, I'm willing to bet on it. What I'm not willing to bet on, however, is that there's a reason why I should be paying some shady character huge sums of money for something that they say will work. Their word means squat to me, as I don't know them, NOR do I know what they claim.

Please, see my skepticism for what it truly is, an unwillingness to blindly accept anything on face value. You want me to believe you? Prove what you claim.

TheBorg

Originally posted by Uplifted
More than one glass of magnetized grape juice can give you a headache.

I would dearly love to know how you "magnetize" grape juice -- and how you prove it's magnetized. Just waving a magnet near it or sitting it on a degausser and then announcing it's magnetized isn't proof. I can sit my cat on a degausser and he won't be magnetized in the least.

Looking forward to seeing what your "ORMUS expert" says, particularly how they prove these states exist and what test one should run to determine if something is pure ORMUS or non ORMUS.

I think we can arrange to test whatever they come up with.

IBORG, you must understand that ORMUS elements are minerals. You deny that the body needs them??? Perhaps it's because you have all those millions of NANO probes in your blood and have no need for minerals.
(joke) :-P

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
IBORG, you must understand that ORMUS elements are minerals. You deny that the body needs them??? Perhaps it's because you have all those millions of NANO probes in your blood and have no need for minerals.
(joke) :-P

You know, I can't understand how it's possible that you could have possibly gotten that out of anything that I've said thus far. As a matter of fact, if nothing else, I've said exactly the same thing. I believe, no, better yet, I'll just quote it for ya:

If they are elements that help us, we call those vitamins. Vitamins are an essential part of our health, as they allow our bodies to effectively fight illness, as well as keep our bodies fit.

Minerals = vitamins. I fail to see how it is that I could have mis-equated the two. If you have some more insight into my apparent misunderstanding of you're "truth", please present it.

TheBorg

Vitamins are either water-soluble (water is required for absorption and are excreted in urine) or fat-soluble (requires fat for absorption and are stored in fat tissue). There are 9 different water-soluble vitamins: vitamin C and the eight B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamins B6 and B12, folate, biotin, and pantothenic acid); and, 4 different fat-soluble vitamins: vitamins A, D, E, and K. Each of these vitamins have unique roles and functions in our bodies. For example, vitamin A promotes eyesight and helps us see in the dark, and vitamin K helps blood to clot.

Minerals are categorized as major or macro- (calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, chloride, magnesium, and sulfur), and trace or micro- (iron, iodine, zinc, chromium, selenium, fluoride, molybdenum, copper, and manganese) minerals, the former needed in quantities of 100mg/day or more, and the latter required in much smaller, or "trace," amounts. These 16 essential minerals also play vital roles in the body, such as calcium in osteoporosis prevention and iron in (iron-deficiency) anemia prevention; and, they can be found in the body dissolved in body fluids as ions and/or are part of important compounds, such as calcium and phosphorus in hydroxyapatite found in bones and teeth. Other minerals, such as lead, are contaminant minerals and not nutrients because they can cause harm by disrupting normal bodily functions and processes, as in the case of lead poisoning.

Vitamins are not minerals.


Here is a research link: Ormus Research


Here's also a link about gold binding to DNA: Gold/DNA

Some more links...

Scientific Overview
Magnetic traps
Magnetic water

It is not the water itself that magnetizes, but the superconductive particles within it.

It is not the water itself that magnetizes, but the superconductive particles within it.

Oh really?

Wow...wasn't aware my water contained "superconductive particles", considering these are particles with zero resistance and no internal magnetic field...which would seem to contradict your idea of "magnetizing" them.

Also, if water contains such particles, why are they so freaking expensive to purchase? I use microwave filters in a magnetic imaging system in the lab. The filters block the magnetic pulses from escaping (hence the LACK of magnetization, as opposed to your magnetized particles).

I think you've made yourself a victim of a snake-oil salesman who throws around spiffy sounding scientific words. Perhaps you should read up on this stuff in, oh I don't know, peer reviewed journals, or something other then a .com ?

Originally posted by Uplifted
Vitamins are not minerals.

Here is a research link: Ormus Research


Here's also a link about gold binding to DNA: Gold/DNA

Could you by any chance link me to the website that you excerpted from? You do know that that is plagiarizing, don't you? Unless I missed something there in the links you provided, then I'm left to assume that this was taken without reference, which doesn't help your argument at all. True, I mixed the two up, but if nothing else, they are both similar.

I will here freely admit, before all of you my ATS brethren, that I was wrong. I had forgotten that there was a difference between Minerals and Vitamins. Now that I've been enlightened on this, I can at least sleep well in knowing that I learned something today. Thank you Uplifted, I had forgotten that little bit. I truly thank you.

That all being said Uplifted, I suggest you go look a little harder for proof. I would suggest that when you find the source that you took that excerpt from, that you email them about these "Ormus elements", and see what kind of a response you're going to get. Please, do post the responses for all of us to see. It might be enlightening, even for me.

Again, it should be stated that I have an open mind on some things, but I'm not going to freely just suck down what someone spoon-feeds me as their "truth", when it stinks of fabrication.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
Could you by any chance link me to the website that you excerpted from?

First link I saw on Google. Ask Alice It's a health website for Columbia University.

Now that I've been enlightened on this, I can at least sleep well in knowing that I learned something today. Thank you Uplifted, I had forgotten that little bit. I truly thank you.

Wow. Totally didn't mean to offend you.

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Perhaps you should read up on this stuff in, oh I don't know, peer reviewed journals, or something other then a .com ?

I'll post this link again. Check out some of the works listed, I have. Ormus Research

Originally posted by Byrd
Looking forward to seeing what your "ORMUS expert" says

He sent me a link with pictures of positive effects on plant and animal caused by ormus. I would suggest that anyone who denies the effects of ormus should contact him (phone or e-mail). Contact info is on this link, too. Pictures