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Given planned force expansion, Europe will field 4 fleet aircaft carriers as well as more than half a dozen smaller escort carriers and numerous surface warships by 2015. Combined with the Airbus A400M and aerial refueling tanker orders, this sea power will, if placed at EU disposal, unquestionably achieve superpower status for Europe.
Originally posted by st3ve_o
what i thought it ment was the EU having its own military therefore EU member countrys could say "oi can we borrow the carriers/warships for this and that mission"
its not a bad idea that, i can actually see it happening in the future as it will put all EU nations on par with each other on a military scale & also rival the US's mighty defence budget.
Originally posted by devilwasp
... So for I believe we have 4 brigades designed to act as peacekeepers inside the EU, ...
... I'm not too sure on thier actual purpose but 16th air assualt is one of those brigades I believe (MON the 16th!)
Originally posted by longbow
Ehm what is it - half dozen smaller carriers? Those 4 bigger carrier would be British and French I assume, but I don't kow about 6 smaller carriers, I think only Spain and Italy will have one marine corps like carrier. Also I don't understand why should A-400 contribute to superpower status - what is it, some Airbus propaganda? A-400 won't be strategic transport even if it is advertized as such, it is just larger tactical plane like Hercules on steroids. It cannot lift MBTs and it will have problems to lift even future european IFV - I've read that german one would weight 40tons and their Pz 2000, which is otherwise great artillery weights 55 tons.
Not to bash EU - I'm from Europe too, but while EU is economically superpower it is definitely not superpower militarily or concering foreign policy.
Firstly militarily even if combined it lacks strategic transport planes, long range bombers, military satellites, spy planes, strong navy - those 4 small carriers would probably not be enough, especially if you take into account the problems British had with Argentine during Falklands war. Superpower must be capable to act alone and what would happen if US decided to not give EU their satellite photos for example? The combined ground forces are OK, but the force projection sucks and it doesn't seem to change in future. Those 60 000 thousands men are good for peacekeeping but not for real war. And just because you have peacekeepers it doesn't mean you're superpower.
Secondly and even worse EU is divided concering foreign policy. There's quite a big difference between British and French block, not to mention that many states have strong neutral and pacifist tendencies. You can hardly play superpower if half of your forces doesn't want to play with you.
Originally posted by longbow
Not to bash EU - I'm from Europe too, but while EU is economically superpower it is definitely not superpower militarily or concering foreign policy.
Originally posted by Lonestar24
FOR the EU
There´d be a big obvious problem if one would expect peace keeping to be necessary WITHIN the EU...
Originally posted by longbow
Ehm what is it - half dozen smaller carriers? Those 4 bigger carrier would be British and French I assume, but I don't kow about 6 smaller carriers, I think only Spain and Italy will have one marine corps like carrier.
Not to bash EU - I'm from Europe too, but while EU is economically superpower it is definitely not superpower militarily or concering foreign policy.
Firstly militarily even if combined it lacks strategic transport planes, long range bombers, military satellites, spy planes, strong navy
Superpower must be capable to act alone and what would happen if US decided to not give EU their satellite photos for example?
The combined ground forces are OK, but the force projection sucks and it doesn't seem to change in future.
Those 60 000 thousands men are good for peacekeeping but not for real war. And just because you have peacekeepers it doesn't mean you're superpower.
Secondly and even worse EU is divided concering foreign policy. There's quite a big difference between British and French block, not to mention that many states have strong neutral and pacifist tendencies. You can hardly play superpower if half of your forces doesn't want to play with you.
Originally posted by devilwasp
Well could you see the EU allowing thier troops to go into a NON EU country?
Originally posted by paraphi
Must take issue but collectively the EU has over ten times the number of peacekeepers in the field, excluding the recent Lebanon contribution.
I don't have the list to hand but the USA has been involved in less military conflicts since 1945 than France showing that France has got its hands dirty more often than the US.
Regards
Originally posted by longbow
Ehm what is it - half dozen smaller carriers? Those 4 bigger carrier would be British and French I assume, but I don't kow about 6 smaller carriers, I think only Spain and Italy will have one marine corps like carrier. Also I don't understand why should A-400 contribute to superpower status - what is it, some Airbus propaganda?
Firstly militarily even if combined it lacks strategic transport planes, long range bombers, military satellites, spy planes, strong navy - those 4 small carriers would probably not be enough, especially if you take into account the problems British had with Argentine during Falklands war. Superpower must be capable to act alone and what would happen if US decided to not give EU their satellite photos for example? The combined ground forces are OK, but the force projection sucks and it doesn't seem to change in future. Those 60 000 thousands men are good for peacekeeping but not for real war. And just because you have peacekeepers it doesn't mean you're superpower.
Secondly and even worse EU is divided concering foreign policy. There's quite a big difference between British and French block, not to mention that many states have strong neutral and pacifist tendencies. You can hardly play superpower if half of your forces doesn't want to play with you.
Also on the satellite photos part, there was a plan recently for Europe to set up it's own sattelite comms system for military use, in a similar way to GPS. I seem to remember the plans fell through as the cost was just too much.
Originally posted by stumason
I am not aware of any other EU nation operating carriers, though I may be wrong.
Originally posted by st3ve_o
Originally posted by stumason
I am not aware of any other EU nation operating carriers, though I may be wrong.
the royal navy have HMS_Illustrious & HMS_Ark_Royal that are currently active...but no large carriers as of yet.