PLATO'S NARRATIVES

This will be an attempt to shed light on questions regarding Plato's narratives on Atlantis. Many errors and misunderstanding abound concerning what Plato actually said, which has in turn contibuted to the rejection of Atlantis in modern scientific circles. It is hoped that this will help correct some of those mistaken ideas, which should lead to a better understanding of Plato's story.

Not sure you'll find where was Atlantis, but in my opinion, it can be a usefull link Link

Good link. I've never known too much about Atlantis but since I've been on this site I've wanted to find out more. I'd say that site is a good start. Thanks!

I agree, nice link sorted out the facts from what other rubbish ive heard I'll be sure to point people to this to show them the basics about Atlantis, ive been researching into Atlantis which gives this link added validity

What an intriguing find, UP! I don't agree with all of it, particularly the bits on the Pleistocene extinctions (which took place at different times: www.uwsp.edu... )

It's a nice reference page, though, and very even-handed.

Originally posted by Byrd
What an intriguing find, UP!

Intriguing ? I found one thing intriguing. What the Russian guy think.Saying that Atlantis was in France and England,well....

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your comments.

Plato calls Atlantis an Island. But is not Australia for example an island to someone that lands there?

I do not agree with the logic that Atlantis has to be a certain size based upon some modern standard. To the ancients the americas would seem to be islands too until their extent was completely known. Then only where the land masses did join or cojoin with others one might find that they were indeed continents.

[Edited on 7-11-2003 by THENEO]

i was just wondering, has anyone ever played that old Indiana Jones game for the computer, i think it was called IJ and the Fate of Atlantis?

btw, I'm pretty sure it had a lot of references to Plato's writings, probably not accurate, but whatever

Plato described Atlantis as an Island between Europe and a Western continent. The Island had many marvelous inventions and transportation machines but it sank below the ocean.

So if you wanted to sail from Say Europe to America. The trip was 30 days. After about 2 weeks you could take a nice little vacation in Atlantis befire continuing your trip. Others have said this Island could possibley be next to Cuba, Trinidad, or Hates ext.

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by websuspect]

Doesn't Atlantis have anything to do with the Azores Islands??? I thought i read something about it.

Yep, I've seen the site before, and I was hoping my opponent wasn't going to use it in the debates, hehe....

However, some of it is conjecture, but all in all, they do a good job here...

Still though, my money's on it being the altiplano in South America... It simply fits all the pieces of the puzzle...

A nice set of questions and answers. Overall a good read.

As I have banged on about before, platos works are symbolic fiction. It has been done before and since, Virgils Aeneid and Moore's Utopia. Please read the story and not peoples opinions on them. Here is a link to the full text of Critias.
Plato Critas full text
why is there no search for utopia? Because it is a work of fiction just like gullivers travels. the detail is there as symbolism and to add authenticity. It would be a serious underestimation of plato's gifts as a writer to think other wise. Here is a v good critique I found on net.

Qouted from project guttenburg e-text
Plato, as he has already told us (Tim.), intended to represent the ideal state engaged
in a patriotic conflict. This mythical conflict is prophetic or symbolical
of the struggle of Athens and Persia, perhaps in some degree also of the
wars of the Greeks and Carthaginians, in the same way that the Persian is
prefigured by the Trojan war to the mind of Herodotus, or as the narrative
of the first part of the Aeneid is intended by Virgil to foreshadow the
wars of Carthage and Rome. The small number of the primitive Athenian
citizens (20,000), 'which is about their present number' (Crit.), is
evidently designed to contrast with the myriads and barbaric array of the
Atlantic hosts. The passing remark in the Timaeus that Athens was left
alone in the struggle, in which she conquered and became the liberator of
Greece, is also an allusion to the later history. Hence we may safely
conclude that the entire narrative is due to the imagination of Plato, who
has used the name of Solon and introduced the Egyptian priests to give
verisimilitude to his story. To the Greek such a tale, like that of the
earth-born men, would have seemed perfectly accordant with the character of
his mythology, and not more marvellous than the wonders of the East
narrated by Herodotus and others: he might have been deceived into
believing it. But it appears strange that later ages should have been
imposed upon by the fiction. As many attempts have been made to find the
great island of Atlantis, as to discover the country of the lost tribes.
Without regard to the description of Plato, and without a suspicion that
the whole narrative is a fabrication, interpreters have looked for the spot
in every part of the globe, America, Arabia Felix, Ceylon, Palestine,
Sardinia, Sweden.

Timaeus concludes with a prayer that his words may be acceptable to the God
whom he has revealed, and Critias, whose turn follows, begs that a larger
measure of indulgence may be conceded to him, because he has to speak of
men whom we know and not of gods whom we do not know. Socrates readily
grants his request, and anticipating that Hermocrates will make a similar
petition, extends by anticipation a like indulgence to him.

Critias returns to his story, professing only to repeat what Solon was told
by the priests. The war of which he was about to speak had occurred 9000
years ago. One of the combatants was the city of Athens, the other was the
great island of Atlantis. Critias proposes to speak of these rival powers
first of all, giving to Athens the precedence; the various tribes of Greeks
and barbarians who took part in the war will be dealt with as they
successively appear on the scene.

Its very long but relevant to the disscussion. I want to believe there was an ancient civ before our own technologiccally advanced, indeed there is a lot of evidence to support it, but platos work does not point to this as an accurate description. I accept the source of the text could come from some form of greek mythology, but not physical evidence.
Well thats my ten cents. Thanks for listening, well reading.

If you get into the philosophies of Plato regarding essences or "perfect" FORMS being "out there" which this imperfect reality ascribes to... I think you have to take his own account of 'historical record' in this very light.

There's good reason to believe Socrates never existed except in the writings of Plato, where Socrates was offered as the perfect teacher and source of Plato's insight. Does his work not have more weight in relating this as the teachings of this Great Philosopher and his many trials and tribulations than starting "Well here's what I think..."

Same with the stories of Atlantis - a perfectly advanced civilization that befell it's own devices. It's a morality allegory, pointing to the extremes of what we aspire to become.

Does anyone really believe the Allegory of Cave was 'real'? I'm not suggesting Plato tried to mislead people, for it would have been understood in the ancient tradition of truth in 'STORY' telling at the time. (cite: BIBLE)

This isn't just my opinion of Plato either. A wise man told me "A man wiser than me" so it must be true. (Get it?)

[Edited on 12/15/2003 by FoxStriker]

an interesting read to say the least, however I like to do my thinking for myself.

The author has a very know it all feel to the way he brings the Q&A across which I find unsettling because absolutely NO ONE knows the answers, If we did, Atlantis would have been located by now.

It is interesting reading his take or interpretation of Plato's dialogues but in my opinion, that is all it really is, just another interpretation... nothing more.

He has some interesting ideas, but I think some of his logic is flawed.

In the end, you should never rely on any one persons interpretation as the answer to a question that is still classified as a mystery or myth at the time of the reading. Unless he has found Atlantis based on his findings... I consider this just another opinion.