ECK and other thinkers apply here.

'I believe we'll be there until all nations converge on Israel and wipe each other off the face of the earth in the battle of Armageddon."


Thats Correct so to Speak it or something like it is the logical outcome of our present course !!

How to Bring peace in 10 Days

Let us The Powerful countries of the world[US Russia China] come together in agreement that..
1: If the present course is not altered that it will lead to
in all probability Global Nuclear War
2:We Must !! come to a Global Consensus in that in order to Preserve a cohesive "Global community"
We Must bring about a total end to War & Terrorism
Worldwide
3: That A Global Proclamation Be Made that "No Nation Or Group be allowed to persue Agression Against Another Group or Nation"
4:This Should Be #1 Disband The United Nations
5: Should Agression Occur ANYWHERE that presents
a Threat to the stability of an area of the World
That the afore mentioned nations meet and conclude
that a danger is apparent
6: That a warning be issued to the offending parties
"If All Hostilities Do No Hence Forth Cease that in 3 Days
the power of our Nations Will be brought to Bear to compel you to Resume Peacefull Coexistance

How does it Work ?

Heres how ..lets take Iraq for example .
Us calls Russia & China " Were in an situation we want
Peace And self rule for Iraq but it not going to happen as long as fighting continues to destabilize our efforts.
China & Russia say OK We Agree proceed..
A Joint Proclamation is issued it states
"In order to preserve World Peace and eliminate the threat of Global Nuclear War you are Ordered to cease
All hostilities within 3 Days"
Action cools in most areas Except Bagdad
"A Joint proclamation is issued you have failed
to comply with our Warning hense you are Ordered to Leave the city of Bagdad in 7 days the city will be razed
to the ground"
Seven days later small nuclear devices are used to level the city.

Next stop Isreal/Palestine [yes i would level jerusalem]
Better them than the World

When a man has no home ..no food...his thoughts turn to survival not making war


This tactic will most likely be needed in the near future
in Pakistan/India....

Peacefull coexistance or Death the choice is YOURS !
Choose !

Originally posted by infinite

How do you propose on getting the US out of this mess that it is in with Iraq, Affie and the other quagmire stuff it is involved in?

you cause the mess, you fix the mess i say. If the US pull out then they will leave the country in a mess

+++++

Well, if your goal is to make another 'little america' - you lost from the git go

GETTING OUT OF THE MESS:
* Grid the whole country, N C S, Northern leave to Kurds
Central- cordorn the population centers= where the Free Iraqi are 'protected' by US forces[bagh/baby/naja & major towns] S- is under UK & is actually only Basra.

everything outside these 'protected' areas is like the MAD MAX desolation zones/

in these controlled Free Iraqi areas...all streets, thoroughfares, rooftops, subways, are littered with 3 yard concrete pyramids..bristling with imbedded sensors
to detect explosives, vibrations, etc etc
a few instant response, shok & awe, retaliations will cease any mischief & tampering with these 'beacons of safety'...while serving as deterrant & peace keeper sentries!!

in these Free Iraqi megacenters, the skies will be dotted with tethered dirgibles to recon & scan, day & night, the whole population of civilians & liberators!

No more troops (volunteer or otherwise) will be needed
only the make-up & training & personnel to service/ maintain more & new surface pyramids & sky blimps...all networked in a 'FLYs EYE Sensor Grid'

With this Hi-Tech solution...the Great Satan label can be made into an asset...mass population control, at first, then leading to greater autonomy & self-direction as conditions warrent.

there may be something useful,or can be developed ?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Cearbhall
How do you propose on getting the US out of this mess that it is in with Iraq, Affie and the other quagmire stuff it is involved in?

The first issue we must face is the issue of security. Before we can even think about the possibility of leaving Iraq, we have to figure out how to stabilize the security situation. Currently law and order and chaos reigns supreme, despite what you may hear from the network news, White House and Pentagon. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our troops are facing 30 to 35 attacks a day.

The biggest problem at the moment has to do with the fact that we do not have enough soldiers on the ground to handle the security situation. Our troops are woefully outmanned for the task at hand. Estimates show at least 200 to 350 thousand more troops are needed, bringing the number of troops closer to the number former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki had originally predicted would be needed for the invasion. But still short.


I ran across this gem of a study early today. It represents the efforts of two teams from the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) who went to Iraq, Qatar, Afghanistan and Kuwait to determine how it was all working out... Check out the PDF:

www.globalsecurity.org...

I mistakenly called Gen. Eric Shinseki Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. His title at the time was Army Chief of Staff.

Here's some op-ed analysis from the New York Times on the issue of the shortage of US troops in Iraq.

November 4, 2003
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
So Few Soldiers, So Much to Do
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAK

CHEVY CHASE, Md.

The Bush administration's reaction to the deaths of 16 American soldiers in the downing of a helicopter on Sunday morning was the same as it was to the suicide bombings at police stations and the Red Cross headquarters in Baghdad a week earlier � and the same as it has been to every other setback the coalition has faced: insistence that there is no need for more American troops beyond the 133,000 now in Iraq.

It is part of any president's job to inspire confidence under pressure, but given the true number of troops in Iraq � actual armed soldiers doing a soldier's job � President Bush might just as well have said that there is no need for any American troops in Iraq. Because zero is the exact number of soldiers actually present at many sites that should be secured 24 hours a day.

Such is the arithmetic of an ultra-modern army. The support echelon is so large that out of the 133,000 American men and women in Iraq, no more than 56,000 are combat-trained troops available for security duties. As for the rest, there are many command posts where soldiers operate computers not guns, there are many specialized units charged with reconstruction and civil duties, and even in the actual combat formations there is a large noncombat element. The 101st Airborne Division has 270 helicopters, which alone require more than 1,000 technicians. The Fourth Infantry Division has the usual panoply of artillery, aviation and antiaircraft units that are needed in war but have little role in peacekeeping and security duties.

And even the finest soldiers must sleep and eat. Thus the number of troops on patrol at any one time is no more than 28,000 � to oversee frontiers terrorists are trying to cross, to patrol rural terrain including vast oil fields, to control inter-city roads, and to protect American and coalition facilities. Even if so few could do so much, it still leaves the question of how to police the squares, streets and alleys of Baghdad, with its six million inhabitants, not to mention Mosul with 1.7 million, Kirkuk with 800,000, and Sunni towns like Falluja, with its quarter-million restive residents.

In fact, the 28,000 American troops are now so thinly spread that they cannot reliably protect even themselves; the helicopter shot down on Sunday was taking off from an area that had not been secured, because doing so would have required hundreds of soldiers. For comparison, there are 39,000 police officers in New York City alone � and they at least know the languages of most of the inhabitants, few of whom are likely to be armed Baathist or Islamist fanatics.
http:// www.nytimes.com/2003/11/04/opinion/04LUTT.html?ei=5062&en=b3d0d05c69d00964&ex=1068526800&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=

Let's start by trying to figure out how we ended up here to begin with...
We have all the heard the saying that nothing happens by accident in politics,right?.
We all know that wars are fought to procure resources in the end,when the true purpose of the war is claimed to be something other than the citizenry is told until it is too late to stop it,right?.
OK....read this-
www.redmoonrising.com...
The author puts a few things together that may surprise you when you realise just how long this war has been going on.
They just gave it a new name but it's the same old #..
Do your own research though, this article supports what I had come to suspect through my own, while a lot of other authors leave too much hanging,or have too much of a bias of this or that to be trustworthy in their views.
The truth will set you free, patriotism and loyalties are just like handcuffs and a cell for your mind, unfortunately it is becoming very obvious that thinking for yourself is a dangerous thing today in the US,considering a lot of these horse# laws that are being passed in the name of"national security",look past the #,politicians are liars, almost all of them, and those who are not won't last long in the biz anyway.



[Edited on 5-11-2003 by uNBaLaNCeD]

Originally posted by Dreamstone
I little late to reply, but yes ECK, I in fact am going to enlist, in the army as a matter of fact. I had two cousins in this past war, one of whom was wounded by shrapnel. And you never know, I might just side with you after serving my tour of duty.

But I hope not

Dreamstone, serving your country is a higher calling, regardless of what some might say, and I commend you for stepping up to the plate. I hope you do well and stay out of harm's reach. I also hope you have the best possible experience and remain unjaded by what you encounter. It can open doors for you never even imagined.

Whatever you do, pay attention to detail! Do everything you're told, when told, do not take insults personnally (!) do not complain, be where you're supposed to be ON TIME and always keep your sense of humor! It will save your life! If you follow these instructions, you will excel!

Great posts. A lotta interesting views/info. in the thread. Keep 'em comin'. The winner gets a free ticket to Baghdad to kick Jerry Bremer's imperial azz out of the castle and to take over his reign.

Step #1: Bolster our forces
#2: Dealing honestly with Iraq

I have never been a big supporter of the UN, but this time I have to say, the only thing we CAN do is GET REAL and start dealing honestly with Iraq and the world community. We have to agree to some kind of power-sharing arangement with the UN. Security should remain an American duty; however, the reconstruction effort should fall to the UN with our financial help. Re-development/construction projects should also be open more widely to competition. The Bush cronyism has got to stop.
Efforts to build Iraq's military and police force should be stepped up with the addition of more troops.
More power should also be given to the Iraqi Governing Council as an act of good faith on the part of the US and Britain.
Once these forces are in place, the UN takes over and the IGC is firmly in place, we should begin the withdrawal.
If these steps were followed or a similar effort was made, I believe the attacks would lessen and Iraq could move toward self-governance. Until the Bush administration figures out the reality of the situation, or realizes it cannot sustain the opposition any longer, nothing will ever get better. Things will only escalate into perpetuity.

Because everyone is addicted to oil and we are approaching a decline in the possible production of it.
EVERYONE DEPENDS ON IT,EVERYBODY WANTS IT,EVERYONE WILL JOIN THE FIGHT ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER TO FIGHT FOR WHAT IS LEFT.
A few more years of this garbage like the current events today and you will be able to see it too.
That's just the way it is.
ACCEPT IT!.
All the other # is just a distraction until all hell breaks loose, it hasn't yet but when it does you will know it did for sure.
This war has been going on in one way or another for 100 years!.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
Because everyone is addicted to oil and we are approaching a decline in the possible production of it.
EVERYONE DEPENDS ON IT,EVERYBODY WANTS IT,EVERYONE WILL JOIN THE FIGHT ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER TO FIGHT FOR WHAT IS LEFT.
A few more years of this garbage like the current events today and you will be able to see it too.
That's just the way it is.
ACCEPT IT!.
All the other # is just a distraction until all hell breaks loose, it hasn't yet but when it does you will know it did for sure.
This war has been going on in one way or another for 100 years!.

You're preaching to the choir. The steps I mentioned are ways things could change IF big oil wasn't running the show.