Salmond: 'Independence not popular'

ALEX Salmond admitted yesterday that most Scots did not want to live in an independent Scotland.

The SNP leader conceded during a television interview that his party’s overriding aim was not shared by the majority of the electorate. Instead, he argued that most Scots wanted to see the Scottish Parliament take on greater powers - an approach supported by the SNP and some other MSPs in the parliament.

But his admission that independence does not command majority support in Scotland was treated as a gaffe by his political opponents who claimed Mr Salmond had finally admitted that independence was not a priority for the people of Scotland.

news.scotsman.com...

i have to say, i admire the SNP for finally admitting that independence is not very popular in Scotland. in time, i can see the SNP going like Plaid Cymru and moving away from independence.

There are loads of reasons why independence isn't popular in Scotland. One of the bigger questions for me is what would independence actually achieve for the greater good of Scotland? Would it be wise for us to breakaway from the union because of a patriotic urge, brought on by silly posturing and a (fictional) movie that shall not be named? No. Plus, I sincerely doubt that spliting with the union will be "economically beneficial" to Scotland. It'd cost a hell of alot of money, and cause some disruption between Scotland and England. I would rather have some more autonomy over our own affairs. We haven't really used our expensive parliament for much really, except for meaningless debates, and point scoring. We got through anti-smoking legislation, making all the smokers, social pariahs which is a good thing. Salmond is right about most Scots don't want to live in an independent Scotland. All Scottish TV will just keep replaying that damned movie over and over again. What I hate more then anything else, is the Braveheart nationlism shtick. So Scottish, they filmed it in Ireland.

Interesting stuff; of course there's nothing unusual about a political party agitating for an (at present) unpopular political position/policy.
Personally I'd be against it but it takes all sorts I guess.

(and the much under-rated 'Rob Roy' was a far far superior film to grossly over-rated Braveheart IMO
Pity that Ireland's movie tax regime has been so attractive to movie-makers but at least Rob Roy was actually filmed in Scotland - and with a mainly Scots cast too )

[edit on 29-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Ha! that's true. Rob Roy had an awesome pantomine villian and everything. It was also slightly more believeable then Braveheart who fought the battle of stirling bridge on an open field. Absolutely bonkers!

I am a little shocked by his statement. After all these years off him trying to ram down our throats. Independance this, Independaance that. He now turns round and says, the majority off Scots do not want Independance.

This has just put me off the SNP now. Im gonna go with the Green Party now

Btw Rob Roy was a great Movie, and so was Braveheart in my opinion.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
I am a little shocked by his statement.

- Why's that sj?
Surely he is only acknowledging the truth of the present situation?
What's up with that?

Don't we want realistic and honest politicians?

After all these years off him trying to ram down our throats. Independance this, Independaance that. He now turns round and says, the majority off Scots do not want Independance.

- Why do you see an inconsistency between merely recognising the present reality of where most Scots stand on the issue and his personal view that Independence would be the better course for Scotland?

Much as I disagree with his political view on this I can't see that it is right to criticise him for just being honest about where Scots seem to stand on this issue right now.

I'd far rather he accepted and articulated the reality of the situation than suffer the risk of a pretence (and possibly stir up the dangerous and extreme idiot element) with talk that Scots were in favour of independence right now but that it was (somehow) being denied them by outside political manipulation.

This has just put me off the SNP now. Im gonna go with the Green Party now

- Fair enough but I still think your logic about this is suspect.

Btw Rob Roy was a great Movie, and so was Braveheart in my opinion.

- Rob Roy I'd call a great movie, Braveheart was merely quite good (but rather too silly in places).

[edit on 30-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Why's that sj?


Surely he is only acknowledging the truth of the present situation?
What's up with that?

Yeah well then he shouldnt have been banging on about independance for the last 9 years. Do you really think he woke up one morning and said to himself. Ooh dear we will never get independance, better change the direction of the party?? Come on!!

Don't we want realistic and honest politicians?

You are joking right?? There is no honest politician, most of them are corrupt.

Why do you see an inconsistency between merely recognising the present reality of where most Scots stand on the issue and his personal view that Independence would be the better course for Scotland?

How would you know? You live in Scotland? You chat to ordinary Scots who prefer the SNP to stay as it is. This is a guy from the start when he became the Leader off the SNP, said Independace was the best thing for scotland. They are now turning out to benot better than the tories, when they were in power during the 80's and refused to give Scotland Devolution.

Much as I disagree with his political view on this I can't see that it is right to criticise him for just being honest about where Scots seem to stand on this issue right now.

You are entitled to your views, as I am to mines, and This is the right time to criticise him. And anyways he is a public figure any Scot or British Citizen has the right to criticise him. Just because you dont think this is right time. Who are you to tell me when it is the right time or when it is not?

I'd far rather he accepted and articulated the reality of the situation than suffer the risk of a pretence (and possibly stir up the dangerous and extreme idiot element) with talk that Scots were in favour of independence right now but that it was (somehow) being denied them by outside political manipulation.

He has done that for years. Makes no difference.

Fair enough but I still think your logic about this is suspect.

That is your opinion. A few scots where I live agree with me, with regards to him changing his stance.

Rob Roy I'd call a great movie, Braveheart was merely quite good (but rather too silly in places).

Again that is your opinion, you are entitled to yours as I am entitled to mines.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Yeah well then he shouldnt have been banging on about independance for the last 9 years.

- Why not?

Many political movements start small and relatively speaking, 'unpopular'.

Just because he recognises that most Scots, right now, are not likely to vote in favour of independence is surely no reason to stop him believing and campaigning that Scottish independence is a better path for Scotland to take?

Do you really think he woke up one morning and said to himself. Ooh dear we will never get independance, better change the direction of the party?? Come on!!

- I think you have gotten the wrong end of the stick here.

I don't think that is what he is saying at all and I don't understand what you think amounts to a change of direction.
That's what I am asking, what change of direction?
I really can't see one.

He is merely recognising and articulating the truth of where Scottish opinion is right now; that is not in any way inconsistent with still believing independence is the better path and campaigning for it (which he and the SNP will continue to do).

You are joking right?? There is no honest politician, most of them are corrupt.

- Well aside from that sort of 'musichall gag' and that kind of supposed 'common knowledge' this is surely an example of a politician telling the truth, no?

.....and if you insist not then let us know why not.

How would you know?

- I live in the UK and am a keen follower of British politics.

You live in Scotland?

- No, but what has that got to do with anything?
Should only people living in Westminster/London have a view or comment about Parliament etc etc?

......and funnily enough, by blood, I am a member of a clan and am entitled to wear a kilt.

Just out of interest, are you?
......and would it make the slightest difference to anything either way?

You chat to ordinary Scots who prefer the SNP to stay as it is. This is a guy from the start when he became the Leader off the SNP, said Independace was the best thing for scotland.

- Actually sj he still does.

He isn't changing anything he is merely telling the truth when he says that most Scots, right now, would be very unlikely to vote for independence.

Salmond's view (and for that matter the SNP's view) that independence would be the best possible course for Scotland to take remains unchanged.

They are now turning out to benot better than the tories, when they were in power during the 80's and refused to give Scotland Devolution.

- Well much as I can criticise the SNP I don't think calling them no better than tories is accurate.

But having said that, yes I can see where the disappointment arises, just as it did for some Labour supporters.
Now that the easy - responsibility-free - shouting from the side-lines is gone and they are actually in power in places, they are facing the difficulties that exercising real power brings in terms of the compromises and prioritisation that must be faced and dealt with.

You are entitled to your views, as I am to mines, and This is the right time to criticise him. And anyways he is a public figure any Scot or British Citizen has the right to criticise him. Just because you dont think this is right time. Who are you to tell me when it is the right time or when it is not?

- SJ that wasn't what I was getting at at all.

He has simply said out loud that it was a fact that most Scots would probably not vote for outright independence if a referendum on this were held tomorrow.
I think the voting record in umteen elections speaks for itself and he is simply telling the truth - and is right about this.

But that doesn't mean he has changed his mind and become a unionist.

I'm trying to get at why you have criticised him for telling this plain truth and why you believe that simply stating the reality of the situation is such a terrible thing for him to have said and, according to you, a change of political view.

I'm not questioning your right to criticise anybody at any time.

He has done that for years. Makes no difference.

- I don't think he has ever claimed a majority of Scots would vote for independence given the choice......how could he given that the SNP have always been a fairly small minority party after umteen polls?

That is your opinion. A few scots where I live agree with me, with regards to him changing his stance.

- Well that's exactly what I am asking, what 'changed stance'?

Again that is your opinion, you are entitled to yours as I am entitled to mines.

- .......and I have never said any different.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Never under estimate the powr of nationalism - it can charge through politics seemingly out of nowhere once the conditions are right (Poll tax Scotland anyone?)

At the moment the population is content, once that changes it could be a more interesting ball game

Nationalism increases when times are hard. I have a feeling water could be a deciding factor in years to come