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The Bankruptcy of the United States

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posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 05:46 PM
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United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303
Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:


"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11.. Members of Congress are
official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt
entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth
hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a
coroner's report that will lead to our demise.

It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has
been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1,
Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and
insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint
Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause
dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official
capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and
Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal
Government exists today in name only."


Old News? Yes, Important Now...YES.
Current events, both in War, and World Finance, are setting a stage of influence, that "could" change much of the application of all monetary systems. With the advent of the Euro, and 'crisis' around portions of the world, the stage is being set for much change in economic strongholds.

The Bankruptcy of The United States
The Income Tax is Illegal
Why We Must Form a New Nation
SIXTEENTH AMENDMENT RALLY
THE OKLAHOMA PROTEST.
Meet The IRS, America's Enemy From Within
The fast is over!
Redress of grievances
Refusal of Govt Officials to answer questions
About Fort Knox Gold
"FOLLOW THE MONEY!"
Schult'z Letter to the IRS..
THE HARD FACTS NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT
Why You Should Start A Bank Of Your Own
The Declining Dollar
The Fed & Wilson
Dear We The People-Taxes
The Recalcitrant IRS
Recent IRS announcement to ban recording at appeals hearings
The 16th Amendment was not ratified! The Income Tax is therefore illegal
Reference the Money Trust Investigation conducted prior to 1913
'Tax Honesty' Forum Opens In DC
Congress has been put on formal notice
TRUTH-IN-TAXATION HEARING QUESTIONS, Part 1
TRUTH-IN-TAXATION HEARING QUESTIONS, Part 2
Restoration of Fiscal Integrity to our monetary system
The Sad Story Of The Privately Owned Federal Reserve Bank
Congressman McFadden's Speech Before the Attempts on His Life, Part 1
Congressman McFadden's Speech Before the Attempts on His Life, Part 2
Congressman McFadden's Speech Before the Attempts on His Life, Part 3
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
More Congressmen Respond. More of same: Insolence!
MY REMONSTRANCE - Chester L McWhorter
What is needed to restore our Nations Fiscal Integrity
A PLAN
CHIEF JUSTICE ADMITS NO FAILURE TO FILE INCOME TAX LAW EXISTS !
Together, With Force
A monetary trail---follow the bread crumbs
The Injustice of Income Tax...Alan Keyes


====================================================================

After two years of fruitless submissions, the book was published in a small edition in 1952 by two of Pound’s disciples, John Kasper and David Horton, using their private funds, under the title Mullins on the Federal Reserve. In 1954, a second edition, with unauthorized alterations, was published in New Jersey, as The Federal Reserve Conspiracy. In 1955, Guido Roeder brought out a German edition in Oberammergau, Germany. The book was seized and the entire edition of 10,000 copies burned by government agents led by Dr. Otto John.
SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE
The burning of the book was upheld April 21, 1961 by judge Israel Katz of the Bavarian Supreme Court. The U.S. Government refused to intervene, because U.S. High Commissioner to Germany, James B. Conant (president of Harvard University 1933 to 1953), had approved the initial book burning order.

The Jekyll Island Club was chosen as the place to draft the plan for control of the money and credit of the people of the United States, not only because of its isolation, but also because it was the private preserve of the people who were drafting the plan. The New York Times later noted, on May 3, 1931, in commenting on the death of George F. Baker, one of J.P. Morgan’s closest associates, that "Jekyll Island Club has lost one of its most distinguished members. One-sixth of the total wealth of the world was represented by the members of the Jekyll Island Club." Membership was by inheritance only.




posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 05:50 PM
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Very informative and fascinating material there smirkley.
Well done.
Though I don't see a bankrupt US...to many it may seem that way.....
I wonder if anyone has taken the Reagan Era deficits and numbers and changed those numbers to todays dollars for a comparision of "just" how bad it is or "just" how not the US is going to be bankrupt.


regards
seekerof



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 05:55 PM
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.

The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Lecture on the Federal Reserve

I am currently listening to this, and will give my editorial, when finished.

edit--This is an excellent lecture...albiet an hour and a half long,...but very thorough !! Must Hear Audio Material! The topic discussed is probubly the most complete description of the monetary system as it exists today. From beginning to end, the Federal Reserve, it's practices, policies, and controls.



[Edited on 31-10-2003 by smirkley]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 06:00 PM
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.

The following article, written in three parts, presents, in the
author's mind, how the IRS has and does perpetrate a colossal fraud on
the United States citizens.


LIBERTY - YOUR RIGHT TO MAKE A LIVING



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 06:00 PM
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Federal Reserve? wow....now we are talking "agendas" and the Bilderberg/Illuminati, etc.....
"Secret Societies/New World Order"
Link:
www.grailwerk.com...



Federal Reserve is mentioned a bit in here.......
If US bankruptcy has anything to do with this.......US bankruptcy won't happen. Why? Will hamper the "unseen" from utilizing the greastest power in this world to best that they can to achieve the agenda of NWO............


regards
seekerof



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
If US bankruptcy has anything to do with this.......US bankruptcy won't happen. Why? Will hamper the "unseen" from utilizing the greastest power in this world to best that they can to achieve the agenda of NWO............


But maybe the USD is not going to be a part of the NWO?!

The real power are men who are always recruited without exception from the secret societies of Harvard and Yale known as the Skull & Bones and the Scroll & Key. Both societies are secret branches (also called the Brotherhood of Death) of what is otherwise historically known as the Illuminati. They are connected to parent organizations in England (The Group of Oxford University and especially All Souls College), and Germany (the Thule Society, also called the Brotherhood of Death).

What has been going on since 1931, could be just a move to shift the wealth into another currency, removing the wealth from the most powerful economy, to create another one.

Seekerof...excellent link BTW..
Thanks !!


[Edited on 31-10-2003 by smirkley]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 06:10 PM
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smirkley

I would encourage you to write a longer piece on this subject.You've obviously done some research on this topic already.The board might gain from a comprehensive and imformative post outlining your feelings.



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
Thanks for the pointer...



Having maintained an interest in the current world economy, especially since 2001, when the last 'bubble' burst, I have been researching and learning what I can about how we got ourselves into this position of an economy, appearing prone, and dis-functional.

All my 'findings' have seemed to root to changes beginning in the aftermath of the Great World depression, and more accuratly, in 1931, when Britain, and other countries, suspended the Gold Standard, forever changing the world credit system. It is suggested that this occurance, singlehandidly changed, and predisposed us to war, prior to ww2.

How the City of London created the Great Depression

Now what does this have to do with the now, the present, and the world? You may ask.

China, as well as other 'emerging' currencies seem to be poised to make a major influence on the world economy and credit system. China, who has been playing a currency game, by pegging ther currency to the USD hard, which means that their products are cheaper for us to buy, than our own. Many textile manufacturers, furniture manufacturers, and soon, automobile manufacturers, deeply dis-agree that the US governments statement, that no 'foul play' is occuring in reference to china. Additionally, the Euro, making ground in establishing themselves in oil countries, is attempting to make itself an international trading currency, removing the USD as the benafacto standard.

All this, rooted from this era, and directly related to the current US currency, and its fragility. It is appearing that we may be close to an economic 'shift' and the beginning of a new 'economic' crisis, here in the US and abroad, due to currency fradgility, and rooted from the removal of the gold standard.


My gut feeling, is this is history repeating itself, or the same event, coming to fruitation.

Basically,...we have become slaves to our debts, never to be repaid,..ultimatly paid to the federal reserve (including all of your income taxes!),...and going overseas.

[Edited on 31-10-2003 by smirkley]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by smirkley

Originally posted by John bull 1
Basically,...we have become slaves to our debts, never to be repaid,..ultimatly paid to the federal reserve (including all of your income taxes!),...and going overseas.


Well, wasn't that the idea from conception.

Yep, those bankers sure have a wicked side don't they.



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 07:54 PM
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Smirkley,

I just wanted to say that I am very impressed with the extent of your research. Keep up the good work. I've always meant to learn much more about the national and global economies, your links will get alot of use! I hope other members put as much effort into posting evidence to support their theories.

MK



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 08:34 PM
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There was a 'successful' attempt to circumvent the problem that has led us here today. This solution has been completely ignored since President Kennedy was assasinated. This Presidential Executive Order is STILL in force today, yet immediatly after the 'assasination' all silver notes were removed from circulation. Additionally, Kennedy knew that if the silver-backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. This is a very simple matter of economics. The USN was backed by silver and the FRN was not backed by anything of intrinsic value. Executive Order 11110 should have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level (virtually all federal debt has been created since 1963) if LBJ or any subsequent President were to enforce it. It would have almost immediately given the U.S. Government the ability to repay its debt without going to the private Federal Reserve Banks and being charged interest to create new "money". Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S.A. the ability to, once again, create its own money backed by silver and real value worth something.





Executive Order 11110

AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289
AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF
CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the
United States Code, it is ordered as follows:
SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is
hereby further amended -
(a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following
subparagraph (j):
"(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section
43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue
silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver
dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding
silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver
certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver
currency for their redemption," and
(b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.
SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done,
or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced
in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such
liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not
been made.
JOHN F. KENNEDY
THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 4, 1963
Executive Order 11110 is still valid. According to Title 3, United States
Code, Section 301 dated January 26, 1998



.



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 08:42 PM
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I have a silver certificate. I scanned it but I dont have enough room to host...

I wanted something I could show people... To tell them about America. Its dated 1957.



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 08:50 PM
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smirkley....
Another person, that I know of, that has great knowledge of this is Jagd (I forgot how to spell his full ATS name) but he is around and likes to lay low. He is one you may wish to encourage by U2U to comment on this.
*edit* his full ATS name is: jagdflieger

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 31-10-2003 by Seekerof]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 09:31 PM
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Just found this article by the Wall Street Journal:
"Economy Turned In Its Best Growth Rate In Nearly Two Decades"
Link: (must be registered)
online.wsj.com...

Here is the article or excerpt from:

"Friday, October 31, 2003 by Jacob M. Schlesinger and Jon E. Hilsenrath

The U.S. economy shot out of the doldrums to its best quarterly growth rate in nearly two decades, giving a potentially powerful political lift to President Bush despite chronic weakness in the job market.

The 7.2% annualized rise in gross domestic product in the third quarter was the strongest pace of growth since the first quarter of 1984 and the broadest-based gain in the economy in the three years since the stock-market-fueled boom years of the 1990s.

Spending by consumers, exports and residential construction all registered sharp gains. But the news economists found most significant was that investment by businesses grew at an 11% annual clip, the fastest rate since early 2000.

The burst of growth was in different measures both an economic and a political achievement for President Bush. As the economy sputtered after the stock market tanked in 2000 and the terrorist attacks of 2001, he pushed through the biggest tax cuts in history, adding fiscal fuel to the monetary stimulus of lower interest rates set by the Federal Reserve.

WHAT ECONOMISTS THINK

Economists had expected a surge in GDP, but the sizzling 7.2% rate was out of the ballpark. See a graphic snapshot of the economy and analysis from select economists.

While the economy certainly won't keep up the third quarter's blistering pace in the months ahead, most economists believe the quarter marks a distinctive shift into a more-robust expansion that could stretch to next year's presidential election. "We're not going to see 7% growth again, but we could well see over 4% over the course of the next year," said Richard Berner, an economist with Morgan Stanley in New York.

The darkest shadow over the economy now is unemployment, which remains above 6% of the labor force. Thursday's GDP number was also just a preliminary estimate by the Commerce Department and could be revised in a few months. Some economists questioned whether steady growth could continue once the short-term effects of pump-priming from tax cuts and low interest rates wear off. Moreover, critics of the tax cuts argue that their contribution to the latest burst of growth comes at a steep cost: mounting federal budget deficits.

But Thursday's report will take some sting out of the most potent attack Democrats have been honing for the 2004 campaign: that Mr. Bush, like his father, is presiding over a weak economy and doesn't deserve another term. By early afternoon, Mr. Bush's campaign aimed to take advantage, e-mailing a giddy report with the subject line, "Breaking News: Largest economic growth in 19 years."

"There is no precedent in the last generation and a half of an American president losing an election when the economy is booming," says Republican pollster William McInturff. The last president to enjoy such a strong quarter was Ronald Reagan, who successfully managed the shift from economic gloom to optimism to win a second term after a deep recession.

Strong growth, if sustained, helps Mr. Bush in his running argument with Democrats about the wisdom of his aggressive tax-cutting, the centerpiece of his economic policy. As retired Gen. Wesley Clark, one of the nine Democrats competing to challenge Mr. Bush, said in a debate in Detroit earlier this week: "They said tax cuts would help us.... They didn't." Mr. Bush was quick to offer a rebuttal in a speech Thursday afternoon before an aluminum company in Columbus, Ohio, where he trumpeted the growth report and asserted it was because "we left more money in the hands of the American people."

Independent economists say the tax cuts deserve some credit for the good quarter -- but not the bulk of it. Chris Varvares of Macroeconomic Advisers in St. Louis estimates about 1.5 percentage points of the quarter's growth, or just about a fifth, came directly from the cuts. The 7.2% rise in GDP measures the increase in the nation's total output of goods and services; it is an annualized rate adjusted for inflation and seasonal factors.

Mr. Bush isn't out of the economic woods yet. For voters, jobs and income matter far more than GDP statistics -- and by those measures, the president's record is still weak. The unemployment rate remains near a nine-year high, and even during the third-quarter boom, the economy shed 41,000 jobs.

Since Mr. Bush took office, businesses have slashed a whopping 2.7 million jobs, a record that -- Democrats never tire of pointing out -- is the worst for any president since Herbert Hoover presided over the Great Depression. Even under the most optimistic forecasts for the next year, the economy will likely end up having lost jobs during all of Mr. Bush's first term. "A jobless economic recovery is a little bit like going on a diet and gaining weight -- what's the point?" says Clark aide Chris Lehane.

There are reasons for some caution about the growth outlook in the months ahead. Economists say much of the third quarter's increase came from the peak of the mortgage refinancing boom and the implementation of tax cuts -- factors that won't be repeated in coming quarters. Consumer spending has already begun to show signs of slowing after surging over the summer. Sales of cars and light trucks, for instance, slowed to an annual rate of 16.7 million units in September from 19 million units in August. J.D. Power & Associates, which tracks sales at more than 6,000 dealer franchises around the country, says the slowdown continued into October.

Because businesses are operating more efficiently and getting more output out of each worker, rapid economic growth may not guarantee a better job market soon. "Any good news on the economy is welcome, but it would be premature for President Bush to declare 'mission accomplished' on the economic front while we still have a jobless recovery and a huge jobs deficit to erase," said Rep. Pete Stark of California, ranking Democrat on the Joint Economic Committee.

While the economic news may roil the political world, it made barely a ripple on Wall Street, which has already been rallying for months in anticipation of an improving economy and corporate profits. The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 12.08 points for the day to close at 9786.61.

CNBC DOW JONES BUSINESS VIDEO

U.S. Commerce Official Kathleen Cooper says the strong GDP data and lower jobless claims in recent weeks point to strong job creation in coming months.

Windows Media Player Required: HIGH bandwidth (DSL, Cable) LOW bandwidth (Dial-up)

The booming third quarter is likely to bring comfort -- but no policy change anytime soon -- at the Federal Reserve, whose aggressive interest-rate cutting over the past couple years has been a major factor behind the current rebound. The Fed has suggested it will take several more quarters of strong growth to use up the slack in the economy and prompt the Fed to consider raising rates -- though minutes of its Sept. 16 meeting released Thursday indicated it was struggling with when and how to drop its reference to a "considerable period" for low rates. (See related article.)

For months, economists have argued that a real recovery would not take hold until business executives had confidence to start investing again. That now appears to be happening. The Business Roundtable, an association of CEOs from large companies, said earlier this month that 23% of its executives expected to increase capital spending in the months ahead, while only 12% were cutting. Just three months earlier, the percentage of those planning additional spending was roughly equal to the percentage that planned to cut.

"Almost everybody you talk to will say, 'I see very definite positives in the economy,' " said Philip Condit, chief executive of Boeing Co. and chairman of the Business Roundtable. "But they will follow that by recognizing that they are going to be careful in terms of making sure that their business spending is where it produces results."

Executives are clearly seeing the benefits of growth in their bottom lines. Profits grew by 14% in the second quarter, compared with a year earlier, and Mr. Berner of Morgan Stanley estimates third-quarter profits jumped by more than 30% from a year earlier. That is based on the Commerce Department's broadest based measure of corporate profitability.

What's unclear -- and what matters most for Mr. Bush and his would-be Democratic challengers -- is just how much households are benefiting from the economic spurt. Individuals are certainly spending as if they are better off. Purchases of durable goods, such as automobiles and furniture, grew at a blistering 27% annual rate in the third quarter.

The tax cuts helped encourage families to spend: Inflation-adjusted personal after-tax income rose at a 7.2% clip during the quarter, lifted by the child tax credits and lower tax rates that were written into law in the spring. That was far faster than an average of 3.2% growth during the previous five years.

But the third-quarter boom came even as businesses continued to lay off workers -- or at least refused to expand their payrolls. In a separate report, the Labor Department said Thursday that first-time claims for unemployment insurance fell slightly last week, by 5,000, to 386,000 -- a level that suggests the unemployment rate might have stabilized, but isn't falling by much yet. According to an October poll of economists by The Wall Street Journal Online, the unemployment rate is expected to drop only to 5.9% by next May from 6.1% in September.

Wage gains, too, remain under some pressure. The Labor Department's Employment Cost Index report for the third quarter, also released Thursday, showed that wages and salaries were up just 2.9% over the previous year, well below the 4% pace registered at times during the late 1990s boom.

"We have yet to see if any of this will hit Main Street instead of just Wall Street," says Mandy Grunwald, an adviser to presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman, senator from Connecticut.

The Labor Department compensation report also showed that benefit costs to companies, largely health insurance, soared by 6.5%, the fastest rate in more than a decade. That has put a damper on company hiring plans and led companies to impose more health costs on workers.

Indeed, if the economy and the labor market do improve through next year, Democrats will try to steer the debate away from general conditions and more toward specific weaknesses in the economy, such as health care.

"Soaring health-care costs and education costs and higher local taxes are still putting enormous stress on middle class families," says Sarah Bianchi, policy director for Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, another presidential aspirant, foreshadowing the likely turn in rhetoric.

Anticipating the whopping growth number -- and the impact it would have on the political debate -- candidate John Edwards, senator from North Carolina issued a "prebuttal" on the news even before it came out, asserting that "3.8 million Americans have lost health insurance" since Mr. Bush took office while "the cost of health insurance for the average family has risen by almost 50%." He also noted rising household debt and bankruptcies, and a 14% increase in college tuition this year.

Democrats will also ratchet up their attacks on the record budget deficits ushered in by Mr. Bush's tax cuts, arguing the long-term costs exceeded any short-term gains. Most economists believe that, over time, interest rates will be higher -- and growth lower -- because of the sharp increase in expected government borrowing under Mr. Bush.

"The Democratic nominee is going to have to make the case that President Bush has made very unwise tradeoffs for our future," says former Clinton economic aide Gene Sperling, who is advising many of the campaigns.

The economic debate will also focus more on time horizons. While Republicans will try to trumpet the good news over the next year, Democrats will continue to try to hold Mr. Bush accountable for how Americans have fared throughout his whole term. And growth, jobs and income were so weak at the start he isn't likely to come out ahead by that measure.

"It's the old Ronald Reagan question -- are you better or worse off than when George Bush took office," says Mark Penn, Mr. Lieberman's pollster. "That is still going to work against him."



Another interesting outlook:
"OUTLOOK FOR THE U.S & GLOBAL ECONOMY"
Link:
www.commonwealthclub.org...


regards
seekerof



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:00 PM
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the usa does not need terrorist or another nation to come over and attack us....actualy that would be a good thing....if that never happens, the usa will kill itself...we r our own worst enemy..we can all just sit back and watch the downward spiral.....
marginal lending....(boy, i wish i could do that)..big business, insurance, the pole-leaz, we r in the canoe with out a paddle but for some reason nobody seems to care.....
internal primates forever



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:02 PM
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A very informative link,..seeker,...and obviously a well thought out article.


For those who wish to blame President Bush for the economy, and equally for his tax cuts...

What about fiscal policy? Here we had a good start. When George Bush inherited this recession the first major program that he instituted was a major tax cut. He cut taxes and began to increase military procurement at a rather rapid pace. When this was combined with the fact that federal tax revenues were falling, or at least not growing, due to the economic slump, and due to the fact that there were really no revenues from the capital gains tax since there were no capital gains – this meant that nationally we moved from a position of very substantial budgetary deficit into one of quite substantial budgetary deficit.

....What are those realities? First of all, we have to realize that we live now in a kind of strange, new unknown territory. We live in a post-bubble economy, and we shouldn't kid ourselves: the bubble that built up in the final Clinton years was a really, really big one. It was a bubble that went beyond financial markets and embraced the entire economy and corporate structure of this nation.



As for the future of interests rates,...it is cyclical,...and nowhere to go...

What we have been taught, which has worked quite often in the past, is that the Federal Reserve watches the business cycle and when we get to a point where it's overheating and inflation rears it ugly head, the Fed – which sees its primary job as fighting inflation – raises interest rates to the level that is sufficient to cool off the economy, stop inflation and normally it dumps us into a brief recession. Once inflation is run out of the system the Fed starts to lower interest rates and off we go again.

....but UP ! It is unlikely that any further lowering will produce any gain to the economy.


And internationally..

China is booming along, growing at 8 percent a year. Their trade surplus vis-à-vis the U.S. last month was $10 billion. Prosperity is no longer just in Shanghai and Beijing but spreading throughout the country. They keep attracting foreign investment at the rate of $50 to $60 billion a year. They are absolutely bound to become a superpower, not in 50 years but in 15 years, in every sense of the word. India is becoming the software capital of the world. Microsoft a month ago said it is putting in another $400 million into its software facilities down there. India has the brains, the universities that turn out the mathematicians and the engineers, the infrastructure, the democratic system and a good legal system. So India is also one of the star performers of our economy at the present time, which is very important, because if you take China and India combined that is half the people on earth. Instead of being a millstone around our neck, they are providing new and good market opportunities for us.


I completely disagree with the very last sentance here,..primarily becouse China is falsly using their currency to produce a significant portion of their trade surplus.

(As a note...Both India and China have been bringing large amounts of monetary gold into their system for the recent term.)


================================================================

Overall, after hearing todays economic report, industrial output has increased, but productivity gains mean just one thing...the same number of workers,..working harder. No new hire's,..and quite the opposite! Interest rates are poised to go up, as soon as the economy can support it. Inflation IS occuring at many levels, although not noticable when referencing to things like housing. It is most noteable in employee costs, which will be applied to manufacturing/services costs in the near future, if not already.


.


[Edited on 31-10-2003 by smirkley]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:04 PM
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clearmind,
The beautiful thing about what you imply is twofold:
The Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean.....good luck with an invasion theory.....I think history herself speaks pretty clear on this.....


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 31-10-2003 by Seekerof]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:07 PM
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smirkley said:
"I completely disagree with the very last sentance here,..primarily becouse China is falsly using their currency to produce a significant portion of their trade surplus."


Agreed, I think the Bush administration has been "working" on getting China to "fix" this.....


regards
seekerof



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
smirkley said:
"I completely disagree with the very last sentance here,..primarily becouse China is falsly using their currency to produce a significant portion of their trade surplus."


Agreed, I think the Bush administration has been "working" on getting China to "fix" this.....


regards
seekerof



You couldnt tell it by the by the US Treasury Department report to Congress.
They actually implied the opposite, and they determined by comparing
to a 'rule' of determination, that they like to reference to.


U.S.: Trade Partners Not Manipulating Exchange Rates

Commission Says China Unfairly Supports Its Manufacturers

China Denies Manipulating Its Currency


China is not manipulating its currency and will not give in to "international browbeating"
to change its foreign-exchange policy, the government's main English newspaper said
Tuesday as the U.S. treasury secretary arrived for a visit.



(as another note...IF China were to un-peg their currency,..they would be put in a position to BUY much more Gold, to firm up the value of it. Estimated in the hundred of tonne. This would only drive up the price of gold internationally, as they already are one of the largest buyers of the metal. This while we enter into a cycle of increasing interest rates, and inflationary patterns, potentially. And what is a hedge against inflation....GOLD! Do you see a coorolation there?!)



.


[Edited on 31-10-2003 by smirkley]



posted on Oct, 31 2003 @ 10:54 PM
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Yes, I have read those articles and though half clammer one way, the others clammer the other way....
Check this:
"U.S. Says China Not Manipulating Currency"
Link:
story.news.yahoo.com.../nm/20031030/pl_nm/economy_treasury_currency_dc_8

Excerpt:
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration angered lawmakers on Thursday by giving China and other trading partners a pass on whether they were manipulating currencies to gain an unfair advantage over U.S. manufacturers........
China's tight currency peg to the U.S. dollar has turned into a hot political issue in the United States, where industry groups claim millions of factory jobs have been lost to unfair competition at the same time that the U.S. trade deficit with China has swelled to more than $100 billion last year........
Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat who has proposed raising tariffs on Chinese goods if Beijing does not revalue its currency, took a harsher line.


"This report is a whitewash. It treats China with kid gloves when it should be taking off the gloves and confronting China about the fact that it's manipulating the yuan," he said.


Snow defended the administration's approach, saying "financial diplomacy ... is the surest course to get the results we want."


He said China was committed to moving to a flexible exchange rate, and added he expected to see "concrete steps" in the next weeks and months toward that long-term goal........"


This article goes along with the above, just a bit more indepth:
"Snow Seeks Flexible Exchange Rates From China, Japan (Update4) "
Link:
quote.bloomberg.com...


And this article:
"Commission Advises Congress on China’s Currency, Industrial Policies"
Link:
www.uscc.gov...

Excerpt:
"The Commission found that “China, in violation of both its IMF and WTO obligations, is in fact manipulating its currency for trade advantage” and recommends that the Treasury Department “immediately enter into formal negotiations with the Chinese government” over its undervalued currency. The Commission further “urges the Congressional leadership to use its legislative powers to force action by the U.S. and Chinese Governments to address this unfair and mercantilist trade practice” should Treasury’s efforts prove ineffective."

And this:
"China to study currency shift"
Link:
news.bbc.co.uk...


regards
seekerof





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