Point Blank

Look..here it is point blank: If you commit a terrorist act against a state then you are putting yourself at the full wrath of those whom you committed terror against. Also, if you are a state and you harbor terrorists, then you are putting your gov't and citizens at risk against whom you committed terror against.

Really, its not that complicated.

Folks can cry and moan and complain about what is going on right now but bottom line is that things were quiet until Hezbo pulled this latest stunt.

Indeed, its a horror that innocent Lebanese civilians are dying. At the same time, Israel is not the protector of lebanese civilians, Isreal is responsbile for Isreali citizens (be they samaritans, chasidics, christians, arabs, muslims, druze, etc). The Lebanese government is the one responsible for the Lebanese.


What could be expected? War is horrible, and these civilian deaths are terrible, but, the reality of politics indicates that it was going to happen, why didn't anyone do anything to prevent the sitaution in the first place, likesay, the UN forces in Lebanon, or the Lebanese Army, which we hear has apparently recovered from its cold and can now fight the Isrealis??

Real Politics, thats whats happening right now in Lebanon. Not idealistic politics or wishful politics.

I agree 100%. This more a failure of the UN or world body or whatever they are called than anything.

Would you like to know what the real failure is? After imprisoning, bombing, arresting, razing, patrolling with tanks, building walls, kidnapping politicians , arresting politicians, killing their children, closing their borders, cutting off their supplies, cutting off their money, dropping bombs on them....You still haven't gotten one friggin inch closer to peace. Thats a failure. Not the UN, Not the world bodies who have been screaming for them to stop, people attacking them to make them stop...the stubborness that they believe that opression will actually work is what the failure is. You kick one down and two will lift him up and stand beside him, you shoot another down and 8 people will carry his body and take his place. Don't you get it?

ok so this is the third time the same para has been used by PP.

farout...and now it is thread all on its own!!

pffft.

oh and the whole not so complicated one liner is just like collective policy the Govt stands behind. Its the kind of statement where they can make a point without really discussing anything.

Press Release
"yes, 3 detainees have attempted suicide BUT I repeat, the Immigration Dept MUST continue to take a HARD line here"... ha ha ha = dont care, public opinion means nothing to our agenda....

Yerah i get it. Terrorists deserve no mercy. Too bad no matter how you look at it my side is always gonna win =)

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Look..here it is point blank: If you commit a terrorist act against a state then you are putting yourself at the full wrath of those whom you committed terror against.

Folks can cry and moan and complain about what is going on right now but bottom line is that things were quiet until Hezbo pulled this latest stunt.

ter·ror·ism
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

The same shoe is worn on Israel's foot.

Beach Bombing

Killing a pregnant woman and child

Fly-over Presdient of Syrias residence

Threatening Iran to attack nuclear facilities

Razing houses

Closing borders

confiscating land

using occupied land without compensation

Attacking Iraqi nuclear facilties

Attacking Civilians for acts committed by guerrillas

destroying infrastructure as punishment for guerilla actions

withholding funds in order to protest a government election

using citizens of the occupied population, men/women and children as human
shields against guerilla attacks

assasinating foreign politicians

kidnapping foreign politicians and military figures

Attacking US naval vessels without provocation/Murder of US military

Spying on allied as well as enemy governments

Kidnapping government whistleblowers without extradition from foreign lands using force

There is so much more that can't be listed here. You say people are standing up for terrorists? You need to look in the mirror if you think these are perfectly normal.

Is that Allah's dictionary you are using there?

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Is that Allah's dictionary you are using there?

Is that supposed to be a religious attack of some kind? Im not muslim brainiac.




[edit on 26-7-2006 by ThePieMaN]

Pie continues to completely miss the point. It's now at the point where I'm begining to think he's doing it on purpose.

I'll ask a simple question.
If the UN and Lebanon disarmed Hezbollah, OR if Hezbollah never raided Israel...What do you think would have happened Pieman?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Pie continues to completely miss the point. It's now at the point where I'm begining to think he's doing it on purpose.

I'll ask a simple question.
If the UN and Lebanon disarmed Hezbollah, OR if Hezbollah never raided Israel...What do you think would have happened Pieman?

If Israel never invaded Lebanon in 1982 there would be no Hizbollah, if the Palestinians were not in lebanon but in their own country there would be no Hizbollah. What is your point? Israel was the catalyst that created them in the first place.If Israel and the Phalangists hadn't massacred all those people, hizbollah would have never came into existence.

Do you understand these words:
intimidating or coercing societies or governments

THUGS PLAIN AND SIMPLE

It doesn't matter WHO or WHAT was done when. They are intimidating (Murdering actually) the citizens and government of Lebanon for something that Hizbollah has committed. Not only that but they are now intimidating a world body that is intended to monitor the area and aid the civilians.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Look..here it is point blank: If you commit a terrorist act against a state then you are putting yourself at the full wrath of those whom you committed terror against.

Great then Israel can take the full wrath for murdering the Austrian, Finnish, Canadian and Chinese, Lebanese U.N observers ?


"Like i have said before justice is justice NOT JUST-US Jews" helium3

Edit...............Sorry about that Majic



[edit on 26-7-2006 by helium3]

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Regardless of how far apart we might be on issues like this, it is imperative that we focus on member opinions and not on members themselves if we are to have any hope of uncovering something meaningful.

If anyone dislikes the topic or can't bring themselves to comment here without being rude about it, I am happy to report that there are many other PTS topics available for further exploration.

Please refrain from insulting other members.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I'll ask a simple question.
If the UN and Lebanon disarmed Hezbollah, OR if Hezbollah never raided Israel...What do you think would have happened Pieman?

This article explains it in a nutshell.

Published on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 by Ha'aretz (Israel)
Morality Is Not On Our Side
by Ze'ev Maoz

There's practically a holy consensus right now that the war in the North is a just war and that morality is on our side. The bitter truth must be said: this holy consensus is based on short-range selective memory, an introverted worldview, and double standards.

This war is not a just war. Israel is using excessive force without distinguishing between civilian population and enemy, whose sole purpose is extortion. That is not to say that morality and justice are on Hezbollah's side. Most certainly not. But the fact that Hezbollah "started it" when it kidnapped soldiers from across an international border does not even begin to tilt the scales of justice toward our side.

Let's start with a few facts. We invaded a sovereign state, and occupied its capital in 1982. In the process of this occupation, we dropped several tons of bombs from the air, ground, and sea, while wounding and killing thousands of civilians. Approximately 14,000 civilians were killed between June and September of 1982, according to a conservative estimate. The majority of these civilians had nothing to do with the PLO, which provided the official pretext for the war.

In Operations Accountability and Grapes of Wrath, we caused the mass flight of about 500,000 refugees from southern Lebanon on each occasion. There are no exact data on the number of casualties in these operations, but one can recall that in Operation Grapes of Wrath, we bombed a shelter in the village of Kafr Kana which killed 103 civilians. The bombing may have been accidental, but that did not make the operation any more moral.

On July 28, 1989, we kidnapped Sheikh Obeid, and on May 12, 1994, we kidnapped Mustafa Dirani, who had captured Ron Arad. Israel held these two people and another 20-odd Lebanese detainees without trial, as "negotiating chips." That which is permissible to us is, of course, forbidden to Hezbollah.

Hezbollah crossed a border that is recognized by the international community. That is true. What we are forgetting is that ever since our withdrawal from Lebanon, the Israel Air Force has conducted photo-surveillance sorties on a daily basis in Lebanese airspace. While these flights caused no casualties, border violations are border violations. Here too, morality is not on our side.

So much for the history of morality. Now, let's consider current affairs. What exactly is the difference between launching Katyushas into civilian population centers in Israel and the Israel Air Force bombing population centers in south Beirut, Tyre, Sidon and Tripoli? The IDF has fired thousands of shells into south Lebanon villages, alleging that Hezbollah men are concealed among the civilian population. Approximately 25 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Katyusha missiles to date. The number of dead in Lebanon, the vast majority comprised of civilians who have nothing to do with Hezbollah, is more than 300.

Source

Prince of peace: As stated prince of peace, thing in the middle east have not been stable for along time, for you to say it was quiet befor hezbollah did this latest 'stunt' is false. As also stated by others, Israel has attack and terroized its neighbours, and the primary reason for hezbollahs exisitnece was because of the Israeli invsasion, the the occupation of farms in southern lebanon. These 'stunts' have been going on for along time, and it was not as easy as people say "lebanon and the u.n. should of disarmed hezbollah" yeah and then their could of been a lebanese civil war, creating even a longer battle with more civilian deaths. If israel was so divine and mighty, it should of pulled out of southern lebanon along time ago, and firstly should not of invaded lebabanon in 82.

Thatsjustweird: With your sig, you say that we are up in arms about 300 civilians but dont care about the deaths of 14000 civilian deaths in iraq. The deaths in iraq are not from terroists but from insurgents/freedom fighters (however you wanna percieve it) whos attacks would never of happend if america did not invade iraq. Now you can say but what if we let saddam rule, he might of killed some of his own people but atleast he stopped them from blowing up each other. Which i believe would of created less loss of civilian life. There is a big differene between lebanon and iraq, and to even compare the two is wrong.


Great Article Pie

[edit on 023131p://upWednesday by wang]

It seems that some people don't want to see the big picture.

1) Stop the murdering terrorists Hezbollah-someone-anyone....no-as usual, it's up to Israel.

2) Once they are stopped and disarmed, if Israel does any military moves-w/o being attacked first-they are at fault-period.
Of course if they are attacked again... and the UN only tries to stop Israel and not the terrorists Hezbollah (as normal)-it would be just fine to bomb them too.
The reason being they would have clearly taken sides and are no longer neutral, but enemy combatants’.

3) We all know that is a pipe dream-anyone helping Israel against the terrorists-sigh

4) NO ONE has the "GUFF" to go in and stop the terrorists but Israel-Period!!!!!

5) Clearly Israel learned from the US's mistakes in Vietnam. They would call for peace talks and in the calm, send men and equipment to attack again.
All peace negotiations were just attempts to get a break and rearm
Israel knows this and won't stop till they remove the terrorist threat, one way or the other.

Honestly mymonsoon. All i read in your posts is "terroist, terroist, terroist kill them all"
I believe 5 years ago this is how your psot would of appeard.....

It seems that some people don't want to see the big picture.

1) Stop the murdering arabs Hezbollah-someone-anyone....no-as usual, it's up to Israel.

2) Once they are stopped and disarmed, if Israel does any military moves-w/o being attacked first-they are at fault-period.
Of course if they are attacked again... and the UN only tries to stop Israel and not the arabs Hezbollah (as normal)-it would be just fine to bomb them too.
The reason being they would have clearly taken sides and are no longer neutral, but enemy combatants’.

3) We all know that is a pipe dream-anyone helping Israel against the arabs-sigh

4) NO ONE has the "GUFF" to go in and stop the arabs but Israel-Period!!!!!

5) Clearly Israel learned from the US's mistakes in Vietnam. They would call for peace talks and in the calm, send men and equipment to attack again.
All peace negotiations were just attempts to get a break and rearm
Israel knows this and won't stop till they remove the arabs threat, one way or the other.

In every point you made you said terroist.....are you sure you dont do PR work for Bush&Co?

[edit on 103131p://upWednesday by wang]

--------------------------------
deaths in iraq are not from terroists but from insurgents/freedom fighters (however you wanna percieve it) whos attacks would never of happend if america did not invade iraq.
--------------------------------

And who are these "Freedom Fighters" trying to free?

Iraqi's?

Who are these "Freedom Fighters" trying to free Iraqi's from?

America?

'Cause, I don't see how Arab/Musilim Freedom Fighters killing inocent Arab/Musilim civilians is going to free Arab/Musilim Iraqi's from anyone.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Pie continues to completely miss the point. It's now at the point where I'm begining to think he's doing it on purpose.

I'll ask a simple question.
If the UN and Lebanon disarmed Hezbollah, OR if Hezbollah never raided Israel...What do you think would have happened Pieman?

If Israel never invaded Lebanon in 1982 there would be no Hizbollah, if the Palestinians were not in lebanon but in their own country there would be no Hizbollah. What is your point? Israel was the catalyst that created them in the first place.If Israel and the Phalangists hadn't massacred all those people, hizbollah would have never came into existence.
Do you understand these words:
intimidating or coercing societies or governments

THUGS PLAIN AND SIMPLE

It doesn't matter WHO or WHAT was done when. They are intimidating (Murdering actually) the citizens and government of Lebanon for something that Hizbollah has committed. Not only that but they are now intimidating a world body that is intended to monitor the area and aid the civilians.

lol
Whew, for a minute there I almost thought you were going to actually answer my question. Good to see your track record of not answering simple questions and changing subjects is still in tact.


I'm going to go over your statement (which needs to be corrected a bit) later but first, I'm going to ask this again (not expecting an answer)

Here and now in of 2006. If Hezbollah never raided Israel what would have happened? Or if the UN and Lebanon disarmed Hezbollah like they were supposed to, would this be happening?

Originally posted by wang
Thatsjustweird: With your sig, you say that we are up in arms about 300 civilians but dont care about the deaths of 14000 civilian deaths in iraq. The deaths in iraq are not from terroists but from insurgents/freedom fighters (however you wanna percieve it) whos attacks would never of happend if america did not invade iraq.
...
There is a big differene between lebanon and iraq, and to even compare the two is wrong

1. The people of Iraq are calling them terrorists. Freedom fighters!? You should be ashamed. Killing thousands of innocent people is freedom fighting? You're really going to have to explain this one especially since the violence as of late has been sectarian violence.

2. You say the attacks would never have happened if America did not invade Iraq. Well you can say the same thing here. Israel would not have attacked if Hezbollah didn't raid Israel.

3. Yes there is a big difference. People justify the terrorists in Iraq by calling them freedom fighters completely ignoring the fact that they have PURPOSELY killed more innocent civilians than the coalition. While in this situation, people get on Israel for going after terrorists....