India bombings: More Islamic terror, when will Islam do something about it?

The initial investigation points to two Islamic groups as being responsible for yesterday’s blasts that killed at least 160 people and injuring hundreds more, Lashkar-e-Toiba and local Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI).

Who is safe from Islamic extremists? And short answer is apparently nobody. The bottom line is that these zealots will kill anybody and destroy anything, regardless of belief, to further their agendas as was clearly exampled in India yesterday.

My question is this (I have asked it many times before): When is “moderate” Islam going to do something about the extremists in their ranks? Because it is their problem.

Non Muslims can only use force to combat Muslim extremists; they can only kill in defense. But ONLY MODERATE MUSLIMS can police extremist Muslims and mitigate their hate and anger. Only Muslims can teach their own tolerance and the peaceful ways of their religion.

Islamic terrorism is not the west’s fault, it’s all of Islam’s fault, and sole responsibility to control it lies within Islam. As extreme Muslims will only listen to other Muslims, not the infidels. When are the moderates going to stand up and say enough? Then actually ACT on it?

How many more people will die as a result of Islams inaction and inability to control the fanatics among them?

If my 2.5 year old child goes outside and causes damage on another’s property, who is responsible? My 2.5 year old or me? I raised him, taught him, and instilled his values, so who’s fault is it? And who is responsible for the aftermath? Me.

The zealots have been created in moderate Islam, they were taught by the same people, and they went to the same Mosques. Moderate Islam has allowed these people enough room to deviate from the peaceful aspects of Islam to the point of organized terror groups with dreams of Sharia law and a return of the Caliphate.

Don’t tell me India is oppressing Muslims throughout the world and deserve to be the target of Jihad. How many more bombings, murders, plots and plans need to happen or be thwarted before moderate Islam does something? Because all non Muslims can do to protect themselves is to use force.

Another 160+ people dead at the hands of Islamic Terrorists…

timesofindia.indiatimes.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> Times Of India

Because maybe a lot of bombing were not commited by muslims?

London, New York, Madrid, Bali and many more were not commited by muslims but secrets agencies, there is plenty of proofs, we just need real investigations.

As Hitler said, Terrorism is the better political weapon, because there is not a greatest fear than the fear of a sudden death.

But those bombings in India were made by extremists as you point it.

As you said, the muslims have a responsability in this, but we have one as well.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Vitchilo]

Great points skippy! Unfortunately, we (at least in the US) live in a society that likes to take the blame for everything. Many people view the existence of Muslim extremists/terrorists as their own fault somehow. It seems like I hear it all the time: "If only we listened to them we could understand their plight." I personally think what's going on in the world is horrible; with India yesterday and Israel - Lebanon today it only seems to be getting worse.

I think it's very dangerous to take the stance that muslims are some sort of "different aliens creatures" who cannot be communicated with except by other muslims. That can only lead to alienation (heheheh) , and more problems. You seem to be giving the option that either non-muslims "kill in defense" the muslims, or the moderate muslims convince them to leave their extremist ways.

Muslims are humans just like everyone else. They do something wrong, they should be punished. It seems ridiculuous to lay the blame for extremists solely on the "moderate" muslims. It's like saying all white christian Americans are responsible for the actions of the Ku Klux Klan, or that all Germans are responsible for Nazis.

It should be remembered that India has the largest (or is it 2nd largest?) muslim population in Asia. Many of those who died in the bombings were muslims. A very large number of muslims donated blood for the victims. In a city that has had Hindu-Muslim conflicts for so long, it's a nice step forward.

Lastly, it's not really been discovered who was responsible. Whenever there is an attack, the Indian authorities automatically accuse the LeT or JeM. If it was them, then this is about Kashmir, and doesn't really have much to do with religion.




[edit on 14-7-2006 by babloyi]

In all reality Islam is a very decenteralized religion....there is no ONE in charge like say the pope or something so ISLAM per say cannot do anything about terrorism any more that protestants can do anything about anti-abortion extremists, to draw an analogy. Individual people and cultures can do something by better educating their children in tolerance but for the short term...if you are a moderate muslim and some damned excitable fool with a machine gun is railing against the west...are you going to tell him to shut up?

Originally posted by babloyi
I think it's very dangerous to take the stance that muslims are some sort of "different aliens creatures" who cannot be communicated with except by other muslims.

[edit on 14-7-2006 by babloyi]

Not Muslims, extremist Muslims, huge difference and WAAAAAY to many people on these forums confuse the two. How can you reason with somebody who hates you so badly they would love nothing more than to DIE, while killing you? You cannot, all you can do is kill them first. Only Muslims can teach tolerance to Muslims, the Quran does not allow it to come from anybody else.

Originally posted by skippytjc

Not Muslims, extremist Muslims, huge difference and WAAAAAY to many people on these forums confuse the two. How can you reason with somebody who hates you so badly they would love nothing more than to DIE, while killing you? You cannot, all you can do is kill them first. Only Muslims can teach tolerance to Muslims, the Quran does not allow it to come from anybody else.

And that really is the bottom line on all of these islamic terrorist issues, isn't it? You cannot talk with them, you cannot reason with them, you cannot negotiate with them. They just want us dead - even if they have to die themselves to accomplish that. This also means there are two sets of 'rules of engagement' for this conflict against the islamo-terrorists. Ours, where we at least try to minimize civilian casualties, and theirs where they try to maximize civilian casualties.

[edit on 7/17/2006 by centurion1211]

Such a simplistic attitude. Sad really. But all things considered it is the very same type of attitude on both sides that prevents any serious dialogue.

I am a regular reader of these threads but rarely post. The main reason being that I havnt got a clue how to it properly lol as there seems to be a bit of a strict policy of how to quote posters and or news items.

The point I would like to make is, as a Christian, tho admittedly a lapsed one. I find it amusing how we can so easily critisise Islam, Muslims, dare I say 'those of different beliefs.

Has everyone forgotten the violent history of Christianity? Not so much the belief but moreso those who claimed to be Christains in their relentless pursuit of power, land and control. Those we wiped out worldwide, the cultures, peoples, races in that pursuit.

Lets repair the damage to our own glass house before we done the cross emblazoned armour once more.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Not Muslims, extremist Muslims, huge difference and WAAAAAY to many people on these forums confuse the two. How can you reason with somebody who hates you so badly they would love nothing more than to DIE, while killing you? You cannot, all you can do is kill them first. Only Muslims can teach tolerance to Muslims, the Quran does not allow it to come from anybody else.

The same point applies. If you treat them like raving lunatics who want to kill civilians for the fun of it, they will become raving lunatics who want to kill civilians for the fun of it. I'd go along with the idea that perhaps one of them are like that, perhaps even two, but ALL OF THEM?! There is obviously a reason that they got into the business.

They must have pretty sad prospects if going and killing yourself sounds like a good idea. Whatever you may wish to believe (and however it may appear), these people are not animals or robots. Nobody can possibly say (except someone who's looking for an excuse to nuke 'em all) that "You cannot talk with them, you cannot reason with them, you cannot negotiate with them. They just want us dead - even if they have to die themselves to accomplish that".

The objective should not be to minimise civilian casualties. It should be to remove all casualties.

The Quran teaches muslims to use logic. It teaches them to strive for knowledge. It doesn't say anything about not listening to non-believers. If muslims had not listened to non-believers, they'd probably know nothing about science that was collected from the greeks.

well , we are being a bit harsh with pakis , they arent the only ones to blame for these bombings.afterall the CIA did "HELP" the PAKISTANI intellegence During the invasion of the sovients in Afghanistan.My father works for the ISI(intellegence pakistan).A former CIA agent known as the PITULL has "HELPED" the isi .
AND Y ARE THE PAKIS DOING THIS.REVENGE IS THE SIMPLIST ANSWER.i ve been to kashmir almost 60,000 innocent civilians have beem killed in kashmir by
indian army mainly after the rebellions against the destroyin of holy Babury Mosque

Moderate Muslims have no obligation in this matter nor do they have any political leverage in quieting 'terrorism -- much of which seems to be a dozen or so spurious incidents. There has never been an evaluation into these acts which does not include presupposed U.S bias into the matter which excludes all if not any U.S issuance of dicates in the Middle East, the real detriment in that region of the world. The U.S has superimposed in all things political in the Middle East to further their own hegonomic agenda and these bloody acts have conditioned an entire society into agony. There is no diplomacy and certainly if there was it does not find itself constituted in military means; the U.S has lost all power of diplomacy and reason by the very fact of it's military budget embowers all economic endevours.

A true diplomat would never speak of aggresive means to end conflict or deflect potential harm upon his country, a true diplomat exhausts all verbal means before bearing a rifle. What the U.S has shown is that the rifle is beared before words are spoken and this has caused the world to bath itself in blood than water.

Don’t tell me India is oppressing Muslims throughout the world and deserve to be the target of Jihad.

What do you know of the Indian political system? India has been oppressing the entire totality of society that dissents against it's endevours. India is a country rampant in corruption and blood and being an Indian myself, I can simply assert that if you have not understand the complexities of this vast populace then you simply can't make such claims.

Luxifero

[edit on 4-9-2006 by Luxifero]

AND Y ARE THE PAKIS DOING THIS.REVENGE IS THE SIMPLIST ANSWER.i ve been to kashmir almost 60,000 innocent civilians have beem killed in kashmir by
indian army mainly after the rebellions against the destroyin of holy Babury Mosque

You have been to Jammu & Kashmir? Is it simply not heaven on earth IF you dont get blown up by one of the terrorists that is!

So the Indian Army has killed inncoent civillians...i dont argue with that. But you cannot justify the terrorists in any way. Do we need to be reminded of the persecution of the 'Kashmiri Pandits', the massacre of enitre Sikh villages. Now it seems it does not even matter to them of you are a muslim. They kill absolutely anyone! These terrorists do not beleive in the Sufi ideology that is the form of Islam practiced in Kashmir. The are 'Wahabis' or 'Talibs'. They are not independence fighters. They are not locals. Atleast not anymore.

And where did Baburi Masjid come into this. Terrorism in Kashmir started in 1984, it gained pace in 1990. Babari Masjid incident happend after that. (I shall refrain from stating the 100's of hindu & sikh temples and gurudwaras that have been destroyed by certain fanatical muslim leaders in the past)

And again i do not see your point of Pakistan exacting revenge. revenge for what. The 2 losses in the 65 & 72 wars maybe, but certainly not for Kashmiri's or the Babari Masjid. That certainly is none of their business.

Look i have nothing against the Pakistani populace. Infact the love & affection that the Indian's receive over there when they go for cricket or whatever is very good, and i am the same is the case when they come here (if they can get away from the movie theatres that is ) but Pakistan should rope in the extrimists outfits operating on its soil and then the WORLD, and not just India, would be a much safer place.

India has been oppressing the entire totality of society that dissents against it's endevours.

Would you please care to elaborate. What do you mean by 'entire totality of society' & 'its endeavours'

I agree that corruption is rampant within the country. And it has a long way to go to remove this evil (which seems tgo be the root cause for all its problems) but that does not take away from the fact that it is a fantastic democracy!

From what i can understand the civil liberties in India are some of the best in the world. They have seperate 'personal laws' for every religion. That means every religion is allowed to decide its own rules of marriage, inheritance etc. You have to understand that 'Secularism' in India is very different from what people in the west define it as. In India secularism is the ACTIVE PROMOTION of every religious community and their interests.

well, i to have nothin againts the indiains to , but the true cannot be avoided.
AND YESS Since when did pak lose the 1965 war.we were pinned down by your army which was 3 times larger then ours.the only defeat in that War was Operation gibraltar and uttar and after that we managed to defend your counterattack.IF WE HAD LOST THAT WAR THERE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN NO PAKISTAN.there were more losses but there was atleast a pakistan . LOOK AT UR MASSIVE BUDGET compared to our tiny one.but still somehow we manage to keep your forces on your on your land not ours.DUDE STOP WATCHING INDIAN MOVIES THEY ARENT ALWAYS TRUE >LOL

but the true cannot be avoided

What truth might this be?

DUDE STOP WATCHING INDIAN MOVIES THEY ARENT ALWAYS TRUE

dude, i dont watch Indian movies I must agree the that the protrayal of the armed forces in Indian cinema borders on the ludicrous. Simply terrible. The only decent one i can remeber is 'Haqeeqat'

AND YESS Since when did pak lose the 1965 war

Ok i admit. Saying Pakistan lost the 65 war was a mistake. It ended inconclusively.

And i am not going to get into a debate over whose forces are bigger & badder.

LOOK AT UR MASSIVE BUDGET compared to our tiny one

As for the budget. Lets look at it in terms of GDP shall we.

Indian - 2.29 (2006-07)
Pakistan - 3.9 (2005, quick search cudnt find the current years figure but it is said to be above 4%)

Now you cant really blame India for having a larger economy can you. And another reason for the larger Indian budget is that Indian Military Doctrine has shifted focus from parity with Pakistan to Parity with China. This means that India no longer perceives Pakistan as a conventional miltary threat.

but still somehow we manage to keep your forces on your on your land not ours

Some might argue the only reason for this is MAD, and not conventional parity.


Anyway getting back to the topic, i must say that according to me the majority moderate voice in the Islamic world is being drowned out. Some by the extremists within the 'Quom' and some by Self-Serving politicians in the west. Come to think of it even the extremists seem to have the same agenda as the politicians. Plain and simple POWER.

" More Islamic terror, when will Islam do something about it?".this Statement itselfs shows extremism the fact it that THERE ARE BLACK SHEEPS IN EVERY COMMUNITY, HITLER WAS CHIRSTIAM , I ASK YOU DID ANY ONE BLAME CHIRSTAINITY FOR HIS ACTIONS NOOO . WHY? . AND NOW WE HAVE FANATICS WHO ARE THE BLACK SHEEP OF OUR COMMUNITY .SO Y ARE THEY BLAMED???

" More Islamic terror, when will Islam do something about it?".this Statement itselfs shows extremism the fact it that THERE ARE BLACK SHEEPS IN EVERY COMMUNITY, HITLER WAS CHIRSTIAM , I ASK YOU DID ANY ONE BLAME CHIRSTAINITY FOR HIS ACTIONS NOOO . WHY? . AND NOW WE HAVE FANATICS WHO ARE THE BLACK SHEEP OF OUR COMMUNITY .SO Y ARE THEY BLAMED???

Ok who are you talkin to? Me? Or is that just directed at the world in general?

Look the point I am trying to make here is that, granted there are 'Black Sheep' in your community, but it is the responsibility of moderates like you (i am assuming you are one) to make themselves equally vocal. You have to understand the 'otherside's' point of view. It troubles them that there is no vocal opposition to the extremists from within the Islamic World. Statements condemning their actions just does not suffice. There needs to be more done.

Look you have to understand that 'shouting' like this wont get you any respect here on ATS. It will simply make people ignore you. And i dont want that, because we have very few ppl here from Muslim World (used the term for the want of a better word) Atleast i have not come accross many, and it is always good to hear the "otherside's" POV. I want you to stay here and i want your voice to be heard. So just lighten up a bit. Be more constructive and measured in your responses.

Isn't that like telling the muslims to start a "crusade" in it's own religion? Wouldn't that spawn/promote more extremism? It's harder to indoctrine someone into an extremist thought if the supposed enemy is nothing but warm and kind, most people would then laugh at the thought of killing themselves to destroy peaceful people. If they thought that thier deaths would be less constuctive and meaningful they wouldn't do it.

look man, to tell you the truth i m not here for respect . ive been in ATS as a guest never joined it but when i saw posts that offended my religion or community ,i could nt have just watched like all the others doo. i had to prove my point
im not your 30 yr old well educated conspiracy therapist. im a 18 yr old teen.
" If islam is the fastest growing religion in the world it just further supports my argument that most people in the world are too stupid to be using my air".now this was a post made by some guy in a topic relating to islam isnt that offensive . if then i ALSO HAVE THAT RIGHT TO BE OFFENSIVE '

skippy wrote:
My question is this (I have asked it many times before): When is “moderate” Islam going to do something about the extremists in their ranks? Because it is their problem

and my question is this (and i have asked it many times before)...what the hell do you expect us to do? The simple fact that we are "moderates" means we dont tend to hang around "extremists"

people like you always always ask this stupid question....and people like you always always ignore the many many voices on here that cry out for "moderate" islam