Is Anti-Americanism generated by Americans?

An article entitled "The Falseness of Anti-Americanism" can be found on

www.travelbrochuregraphics.com...

written by Fouad Ajami, Majid Khadduri professor at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies and a contributing editor at U.S. News & World Report. (Ajami's biographical sketch can be found here:
www.thenation.com... )

I've put as much of the article on here as I felt necessary for the thread, but the full article being read would probably be most effectve:

Mr Ajami says:

Pollsters report rising anti-Americanism worldwide. The United States, they imply, squandered global sympathy after the September 11 terrorist attacks through its arrogant unilateralism. In truth, there was never any sympathy to squander. ..."

...And everywhere there is also an obligatory anti-Americanism, a cover and an apology for the spell the United States casts over distant peoples and places...The embassies targeted by the masters of terror and by the diehards are besieged by visa-seekers dreaming of the golden, seductive country....It is of visas and green cards and houses with lawns and of the glamorous world of Los Angeles, far away from the mullahs and their cultural tyranny, that the crowd really dreams. The frenzy with which radical Islamists battle against deportation orders from U.S. soil— dreading the prospect of returning to Amman and Beirut and Cairo— reveals the lie of anti-Americanism that blows through Muslim lands.....


In Doha, Qatar, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, arguably Sunni Islam's most influential cleric, at Omar ibn al-Khattab Mosque, a short distance away from the headquarters of the U.S. Central Command, delivers a khutba, a Friday sermon. The date is June 13, 2003......The United States was "acting like a god on earth," al-Qaradawi told the faithful. In Iraq, the United States had appointed itself judge and jury....

The preacher had his themes, but a great deal of the United States had gone into the preacher's art: .... what about his way with television? He is a star of the medium, and Al-Jazeera carried an immensely popular program of his. ...And then there are the preacher's children: One of his daughters had made her way to the University of Texas where she received a master's degree in biology, a son had earned a Ph.D. from the University of Central Florida in Orlando, and yet another son had embarked on that quintessential American degree, an MBA at the American University in Cairo. Al-Qaradawi embodies anti-Americanism as the flip side of Americanization. (my emphasis)

A NEW ORTHODOXY
Of late, pollsters have come bearing news and numbers of anti-Americanism the world over. The reports are one dimensional .... This past June, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press published a survey of public opinion in 20 countries and the Palestinian territories that indicated a growing animus toward the United States. ....On the surface of it, anti-Americanism is a river overflowing its banks. In Indonesia, the United States is deemed more dangerous than al Qaeda. In Jordan, Russia, South Korea, and Brazil, the United States is thought to be more dangerous than Iran, the "rogue state" of the mullahs.......

.....The pollsters, and those who have been brandishing their findings, see in these results some verdict on the United States itself— and on the performance abroad of the Bush presidency— but the findings could be read as a crude, admittedly limited, measure of the foul temper in some unsettled places. The pollsters have flaunted spreadsheets to legitimize a popular legend: It is not Americans that people abroad hate, but the United States! Yet it was Americans who fell to terrorism on September 11, 2001, and it is of Americans and their deeds, and the kind of social and political order they maintain, that sordid tales are told in Karachi and Athens and Cairo and Paris. You can't profess kindness toward Americans while attributing the darkest of motives to their homeland.

All in all, and coming from a writer of this one's background and credentials, this seems a well-balanced look at just how the world actually feels about America, not how they SAY they do.

There's a lot of fantasizing on this forum as on others, and it's fun to consider conspiracy theories, and part of that fantasy seems to be that whatever can be imagined can be true.

There is a definite reaction when a question arises about the validity of the information being posted, in particular about America. Trashing, demonizing, talking evil about America and her public figures seems to be a treasured part of the game of conspiracy hunting. Anything that appears to devalue the latest "conspiracy information" is hissed down.

Now, you've got to ask yourself, Why is that?

What does it mean if the citizens of a country are so invested in hating her? Or are they?, is it really the citizens that post the defamatory posts? Or only those "outsiders" clever enough to have spotted the propensity for America-hating from its own citizens and technologically wise enough to see the public forums as a great place to further their own aims?

The American government has caved to a great degree to the pressure put on them by public ridicule and media bashing of its members. It is that that has created the "slimy politician" view as much as anything, imo. Relentless attacks almost certainly produces slippery targets of attack, after all.

The American government is not an entity by itself, it is comprised of individual human figures that have feelings, families, loyalties, job pressures, mental glitches, opinions, and lives just like the rest of us do.

It would seem it would behoove all America's citizens to remember that and consider what it might mean to see your own name in print being linked with hideous, and possibly untrue information that once posted cannot be so easily retracted

mod edit to fix link
Mod Edit: Posting work written by others. – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-6-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

It is not a good thing for Americans to be against their government. I say this as i am one who does not like the current state of things.

Americans have always been united for the most part and we yell loud and clear that we love our country with a passion.

This current administration has forced people to express views and opinions that are hurtful, to us, to the troops, and to our country. I am not proud to be talking against America. This is my land. This is where i live and i love it.

Generating Anti-Americanism is new. It's a shame that this current government has driven us to that.

There's one problem. YOU and your link call it that, its not anti-americanism. Its anti- government, Anti-Bush, anti-administration.

The ones responsible for this anti-americanism are the ones who call it THAT. The government, the talking heads, are the ones who came up with this label and now its perceived around the world that we dont like our own country.

That's absolutely not true. I will NEVER be anti-AMERICAN. I am pro-america, pro-american, and love America. I dont know how i can make it clearer than that.

Of course, we here in the states, know its a cliche used by the likes of Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Coulter, etc........

That's my say.

Originally posted by dgtempe
It is not a good thing for Americans to be against their government. I say this as i am one who does not like the current state of things......This current administration has forced people to express views and opinions that are hurtful, to us, to the troops, and to our country....

If it is only this administration, dgtempe, and please think about it, why has there been anti-American government sentiment expressed for soooo many years? I remember the 60's, and on, and not much before that, but based on what I do remember, I'm confident the same thing went on long before.

Originally posted by dgtempe Generating Anti-Americanism is new. It's a shame that this current government has driven us to that.....There's one problem. YOU and your link call it that, its not anti-americanism. Its anti- government, Anti-Bush, anti-administration.

Generating Anti-Americanism is anything but new...and again, it is not the current admin that "has driven us to that.", though that might be case for you personally.
And it is not the current admin that is bashed alone either, there are plentyof entries for hatred, Roosevelt's admin was too rich, Kennedy was an elitist and so was his White House, not to mention his supposed membership in the Illuminati and so on.

Richard Nixon got impeached as a crook, remember? So your saying that it is the "current administration" that has produced the perceived need to bash American government is just not valid.

Originally posted by dgtempe..I will NEVER be anti-AMERICAN. I am pro-america, pro-american, and love America. I dont know how i can make it clearer than that.

Good, I'm glad to hear someone say that so loud and clear! It makes my heart heal a bit.

The point is, to me, that when non-Americans come in and post things that are vitriolic and venomous that concern things in our govenrment and we have Americans who come in and not only agree with the propaganda but gladly add their bits and pieces of flotsam, it is inflammatory, not only here but all over the world. It is also unseemly, to me, that those who participate in all that America has to offer its citizens and does give us, bite the hand that nurtures them.

It is one thing to disagree with what the govenment does, it is another thing altogether to smear its individual members without sufficient proof of the accusations and then sit back and watch the hyenas approach the carcass.

And I will tell you and anyone else reading this that I believe that is 90% of the posters of horrendous "news" that is unvalidated and uncredentialed. It wouldn't be you, not in the spectacular manner of posting that is done to distribute as widely as possible and as quickly as possible some hideous doings that supposedly happened. That is done purposely, imo, and is well thought out.

It also catches those for whom any hint of negativity about American government is jelly on their toast, whether citizens or not. There is nothing at all wrong with posting to threads that are negative in the connotation towards American government. What is just wrong is the "panting after the spectacular at whose cost who cares" attitude displayed by so many.

We are sooo cossetted. What will it take to wake up those dreamers who think their posting is just their own opinion and will not effect the larger world? Mullah Somebody banging them on the head and demanding they pray to Allah?

Personally, I think that is what it will take for some, I pray not all.

Originally posted by curiousity
The American government has caved to a great degree to the pressure put on them by public ridicule and media bashing of its members. It is that that has created the "slimy politician" view as much as anything, imo. Relentless attacks almost certainly produces slippery targets of attack, after all.

This statement is false IMO. Public ridicule and media bashing is NOT the cause of Americans viewing politicians as "slimey". They ARE slimey. Their behavior is reprehensible in many cases.

See we Americans get to elect our politicans (from a select chosen few via the electoral college or those wealthy enough to run) and so we get to insult them also. We know they are going to slurp at the trough and take bribes, but we hope that we can catch them when they do. We watch their tv ads with dusgust, unable to change the power structure.

The American government is not an entity by itself, it is comprised of individual human figures that have feelings, families, loyalties, job pressures, mental glitches, opinions, and lives just like the rest of us do.

You forgot the qualities of greed, power-hunger and moral ambiguity. These traits are found in far greater degree in politicians.

It would seem it would behoove all America's citizens to remember that and consider what it might mean to see your own name in print being linked with hideous, and possibly untrue information that once posted cannot be so easily retracted

If I had tried to get a freeride on the people's backs, I'd already be ashamed or I would have accepted that the people would hate me.

You seem to see politicians as being necessary? I'd say they are neccesary for control of the populace, but not for the functioning of government. We live in a push-button age, and the elites hold the button. BUT if the people could ever seize that button themselves, the US could eneter a whole new age where the people actually do determine the direction of this country.

Anti- government, and anti- policies sentiments have always been there. But not to the degree it is today. :shk: I've been around, i remember Tricky Dickey, i remember it well. It was not ANTI-AMERICAN then to call Richard Nixon a lying sleeze, which is what he was. He got his just deserts.

Again- this terminology is a new cliche by the neo-cons to make us look bad, to point out to other Republicans, that Liberals are Un-Patriotic, Anti-American and why not throw in anti-christ while we're at it. Just ask Anne Coulter.

Well, its getting old and stale,imo.

One more thing- Was it considered ANTI-AMERICAN TO CALL BILL CLINTON a horney liar and cheat? Hell-no.

I rest my case.

I don't know why we care so much about anti-Americanism. Regardless of how we react to the crazy fanatics who attack us, they will always find a reason to hate-the minute we change a policey to appease someone they'll find something else we're doing wrong. Face it, we can't make the whole world happy. I think we'd get much more respect if we just made decisions based on what is best for our citizens, contributed to the world in a way most Americans agreed with, and got over having to be liked by everyone. Unfortunately that would require more than 50% of Americans to do their homework and make an effort to vote. Apparently that's asking waayyy too much. It's a shame. I honestly die a little every time Jay Leno askes some knucklehead who the VP is and they can't answer, there's just that vacant stare and stupid giggle. But I digress...

As far a our administration? I said in my other post on another thread that the best man or woman for the job rarely runs for it. Our presidents are politicians, usually career politicians! How much can we expect from them? I just wish more people would "stiff upper lip " it and stop America bashing during war. Especially in international arenas! Natalie Maines(Dixie Chicks) is the poster child for that-I was never PO'd that she said what she said about Bush, I was mad that she said it in London.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
See we Americans get to elect our politicans (from a select chosen few via the electoral college or those wealthy enough to run) and so we get to insult them also. We know they are going to slurp at the trough and take bribes, but we hope that we can catch them when they do. We watch their tv ads with dusgust, unable to change the power structure.

Originally posted by smallpeepsYou forgot the qualities of greed, power-hunger and moral ambiguity. These traits are found in far greater degree in politicians.....If I had tried to get a freeride on the people's backs, I'd already be ashamed or I would have accepted that the people would hate me.

Your first statement above is of course an unsubstantiated opinion. Have you ever told a lie, desired to be in control, or had a moment of "moral ambiguity"? No, then please, look through this screen and forgive my sins. How much "far greater degree" can it get than to lie, manipulate, cheat to the limits of your ability?

Mankind is wicked, no doubt about it. The heart is desparately wicked and evil is in the thoughts of mankind. Even the mercies of the wicked are cruel. All Biblical and all true.

As for the "free ride", have you ever gotten a workman's comp payment, or disability check, or refund from taxes you managed through some shrewd manipulation of figures and facts?

I'm honestly not trying to provoke you personally, I'm just trying to inject a shot of reason into the opinions you've presented.

You seem to see politicians as being necessary? I'd say they are neccesary for control of the populace, but not for the functioning of government.....

Not for the functioning of the government? I don't really know if they are necessary or not, but I for sure don't want the guy next door to be able to push a button and get me fined or deported or something because he doesn't like the way I vote or don't vote.

I wish for your sake the "people", whoever that anonymous, faceless, crowd is, COULD rule the world for awhile. Ah, but then they'd ALL be political animals and
subject to your judgements above and the whole thing would start over for you.

I think what you are possibly really wanting is for you and your likeminded friends to be the ones with the buttons and then, what about me and my friends?

Originally posted by curiousity
Your first statement above is of course an unsubstantiated opinion. Have you ever told a lie, desired to be in control, or had a moment of "moral ambiguity"? No, then please, look through this screen and forgive my sins. How much "far greater degree" can it get than to lie, manipulate, cheat to the limits of your ability?

I don't want power over others, so any lie I might make, has little consequence. When a person decides to gain power over others, then they strive to become more than a man. They wish to become a leader of men. In such a position, they must be held to a higher standard, which standard is not met by politicians in the US these days.

Mankind is wicked, no doubt about it. The heart is desparately wicked and evil is in the thoughts of mankind. Even the mercies of the wicked are cruel. All Biblical and all true.

Do you also have this low opinion of your self? How difficult it must be to get through each day. I commend you for not jumping off the nearest cliff and thereby removing one more "wicked" human.

No, humans are good. But then, is that what you really want to talk about? I am not sure from your post. It's a good place for us to start, however.

As for the "free ride", have you ever gotten a workman's comp payment, or disability check, or refund from taxes you managed through some shrewd manipulation of figures and facts?

This is one of the more inane comparisons I've read. A US Senator is like a US taxpaying worker in what way again? A lobbyist is like an injured worker in what way again? I'm not following you.

Not for the functioning of the government? I don't really know if they are necessary or not, but I for sure don't want the guy next door to be able to push a button and get me fined or deported or something because he doesn't like the way I vote or don't vote.

Not surprisingly, you have failed to understand what I am saying here. Since this is a conspiracy site, I am describing a wider conspiracy to keep mankind working (now most spouses work too) when in fact, the ease of George Jetson for example, pushing his button at work, could easily be delivered into the hands of the people. The button he pushes in that prescient cartoon scene, is symbolic for technology. In our current world, technology is used against us, and used to build stupid baubles and distractions. This is designed and fostered by the people who rule us via politics.

But then, with people who have a low opinion of humans (and themselves necessarily), it's hard to really communicate the idea that humans could rule themselves without so-called "leaders". You will (sadly) always fall back on the idea that humans will destroy anything good. I however think that if people could live free from brainwashing and lock-step societal indoctrination, that humanity could have a whole different paradigm of "government" and what that means.

I think what you are possibly really wanting is for you and your likeminded friends to be the ones with the buttons and then, what about me and my friends?

I am talking about technology. Perhaps you haven't noticed that it has grown quite a lot since the premises you stand on, were established? You say man is cruel to man. I say man WAS cruel in the past, but that modern man if given the chance, would find his true good nature. Men want little more than family, home and a fulfilling life. These three things are kept from men, by the politicans and the trappings of the State.

There will one day be a world without politics and war (which is the only fruit of politicians) and this world will be chosen by the majority of humans. Instead of senators, they will have a secure electronic terminal (not made by Deibold or any corporation) where they vote for themselves and without any representatives. You can't see it because of your view of humans. Let's work on that first, okay?

Why do you think humans are evil?


[edit on 25-6-2006 by smallpeeps]

Just like John Titor said..

It's not americans that are the problem, its the american government.

Americans should wake up and realize the direction of all the anger isn't at them, but the people they ********"ELECT"********

The Bible states baldly that there is none who do good, NOT ONE. You, me, the guy on the corner. I hold the Bible view as accurate and quite true also in my long life experience. The tendency toward evil is in every single person I've ever met, no matter how godly, and it is a struggle every day to choose the good and "eschew the evil" as the Bible has it (Job) If it were not for the power of Jesus Christ inherent in the Holy Spirit working within those who have chosen Him, all Christians would be just as selfish, self-centered and concerned about the ME ME ME of it all. As it is, much of the time, Christians CHOOSE to be selfless, other-centered, and God-focused. Not all the time, maybe not even as I just said "much of the time", but frequently, that is the case.

Originally posted by smallpeepsDo you also have this low opinion of your self? How difficult it must be to get through each day. I commend you for not jumping off the nearest cliff and thereby removing one more "wicked" human.

As the Apostle Paul said, I don't judge myself, but press on.

Originally posted by smallpeepsThis is one of the more inane comparisons I've read. A US Senator is like a US taxpaying worker in what way again? A lobbyist is like an injured worker in what way again? I'm not following you.

Your outlook appears to be that the evil resides only in those who are in political offices. Have you thought of how illogical that is? They are not another species, nor aliens, they are human, they work, they get paid. You were speaking of their "free ride". I was merely pointing out that it is human to take the easy route regardless of the cost in character, morality, justice, etc.

Originally posted by smallpeepsNot surprisingly, you have failed to understand what I am saying here. Since this is a conspiracy site, I am describing a wider conspiracy to keep mankind working (now most spouses work too) when in fact, the ease of George Jetson for example, pushing his button at work, could easily be delivered into the hands of the people.

You are being insulting but I will answer nevertheless, since it is you who has evidently confused life with cartoon characters. Who is this magic SOMEONE who can 'deliver into the hands of the people' ANYTHING? Jetson worked, I recall that much, and you yourself mentioned it, the stuff didn't appear in his house because the SOMEBODIES gave it all to him. Your analogy is illogical.

Originally posted by smallpeepsBut then, with people who have a low opinion of humans (and themselves necessarily), it's hard to really communicate the idea that humans could rule themselves without so-called "leaders". You will (sadly) always fall back on the idea that humans will destroy anything good.

Good assumption, and well borne out by all evidence of history

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I am talking about technology. Perhaps you haven't noticed that it has grown quite a lot since the premises you stand on, were established? You say man is cruel to man. I say man WAS cruel in the past, but that modern man if given the chance, would find his true good nature.

Well, this one is so full of assumptions I hardly know where to start, technology has bettered man? Is that what you are saying?

Are you oblivious? Has the bomb not been dropped on Hiroshima in your world? Are we not even now in a life and death race to keep some maniac from dorpping a dirty bomb or worse in the good ol' US of A, do we not have genocide in Africa, threats on all sides, AIDS, not to mention identity theft, child pornography, hackers,all of which have been either directly or indirectly connected to technology or the 'GOOD" nature of man you insist on?

Communism has failed, socialism has failed, why? Could it be the basic nature of man is always towards evil, selfishness, and lusts of life? Man doesn't just want a family, home and fulfilling life unless that is accompanied by a 52 inch screen TV, or even larger Plasma TV, the latest gas-sucking SUV, all the latest bells and whistles in technology, and plenty of distractions all around him.

Does average Joe want to worry about the town budget, or attend those long boring city meetings, or figure out whether the voters are gonna get mad enough to vote him out if he votes for a new highway through THEIR 40 acres? I can tellyou a bit about the long boring city meetings, I've attended them as a citizen and I was the only non-elected one there. There were important things to be learned there, but the rest of the city's citizens would ahve to settle for the short version in the newspaper the next day,if they even bothered to read that.

Originally posted by smallpeepsThere will one day be a world without politics and war (which is the only fruit of politicians) and this world will be chosen by the majority of humans. Instead of senators, they will have a secure electronic terminal (not made by Deibold or any corporation) where they vote for themselves and without any representatives.

Oh, good plan! Then I can vote for myself, and you yourself, and next door Joe for himself, and that way there will be NO majority vote OR conversely, we will all turn into your cartoon version of Politicians! And in the meantime, the streets' potholes grow, the water is shut off cuz the plant is run by idiots who don't know where the valves are, or else they "just don't like you" and think your water is being used a little too much for THEIR good. And how are we to get to this Utopia you envision?

Oh, what a world vision that produces when one contemplates your "new world".

Originally posted by dgtempe
This current administration has forced people to express views and opinions that are hurtful, to us, to the troops, and to our country.

Actually, the Bush administration brought out the best and the worst in all of us since late 2000. It's a good thing, forcing many Americans to re-evaluate their political beliefs. After 9/11/2001 attacks came, it drove many Americans into two camps: those siding with the Bush administration and those siding against the Bush administration. I don't think it was the US Presidential 2000 electoral fiasco that polarized Americans, it was the 9/11 attacks. Since the Iraqi war of 2003, the polarization of Americans went deep, then reared its ugly head in the 2004 US Election. The ultimate insult to the injury is the whole sordid "We are sorry, world" movement over the final results of the 2004 US Election which garnered another term for Bush. Suggesting the other half of the American people who voted for Bush as "idiots" was just a very dumb insult.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Generating Anti-Americanism is new. It's a shame that this current government has driven us to that.

Actually, anti-Americanism have been going on since the 1960s. It's not new. The current administration only attracted and generated it.

Originally posted by curiousity
The Bible states baldly that there is none who do good, NOT ONE.

Oh great, another Christian yapping about how sinful everyone is. Yeah, I know the story. We're all sinful and can't do anything without God's help, etc, etc. Christians choose to be selfless? Hilarious.

Don't you see: A man who thinks himself a mushball of sin, will always think the worst of those around him. How can you ever hope to extract yourself from that dark hole? Wouldn't you like to affect a paradigm shift inside your head and somehow learn to see your neighbors as inherently GOOD? No wonder you need a savior. Sounds like you need primarily to be saved from your own low opinion of humanity.

Anyway meet me in the religion forum and we can continue this angle of the discussion.

Your outlook appears to be that the evil resides only in those who are in political offices.

Again, it'll be difficult for us to even communicate due to the enormous gulf which lies between us. I think the best of humans and you think the worst.

What I was saying is not that evil resides in those who are political (how on earth did you come up with that?). Evil doesn't reside in any human except as a potential. What I am saying is that when a person grabs for power, then this will usually cause them to A: sacrifice their moral integrity (as all office-seekers must) and B: seek more power/elimination of rivals.

You are being insulting but I will answer nevertheless, since it is you who has evidently confused life with cartoon characters. Who is this magic SOMEONE who can 'deliver into the hands of the people' ANYTHING? Jetson worked, I recall that much, and you yourself mentioned it, the stuff didn't appear in his house because the SOMEBODIES gave it all to him. Your analogy is illogical.

Ha ha, no. See, I understand metaphor and symbolism. Many of the people who created American cartoons were actually very smart and they sewed meaningful analogues into their animated work. In that cartoon, George Jetson still has to go to work and push that big red button. Why does he have to go to work? The point is that the political infrastructure says man must always have a job. He must always have a society that requires him to work for corporations. Idle hands do the devil's work, yeah?

And I wasn't being insulting, I used precisely the same tone you used. Anyway, the "Jetson" example was intended to help you understand my earlier phrase "the button". Let me use a different example to clarify what I mean by "the button". Here is a quote from Bill Cooper's excellent essay (which he claimed to find) called "Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars" and which describes how economic manipulation is at the heart of American society:

www.lawfulpath.com...

Silent weapon technology has evolved from Operations Research (O.R.), a strategic and tactical methodology developed under the Military Management in England during World War II. [...] It was soon recognized by those in positions of power that the same methods might be useful for totally controlling a society. But better tools were necessary.

Social engineering (the analysis and automation of a society) requires the correlation of great amounts of constantly changing economic information (data), so a high-speed computerized data-processing system was necessary which could race ahead of the society and predict when society would arrive for capitulation.

[...] those in positions of power strongly suspected that it was possible for them to control the whole world with the push of a button.

Immediately, the Rockefeller Foundation got in on the ground floor by making a four-year grant to Harvard College, funding the Harvard Economic Research Project for the study of the structure of the American Economy. One year later, in 1949, The United States Air Force joined in.

In 1952 the grant period terminated, and a high-level meeting of the Elite was held to determine the next phase of social operations research. The Harvard project had been very fruitful, as is borne out by the publication of some of its results in 1953 suggesting the feasibility of economic (social) engineering. (Studies in the Structure of the American Economy - copyright 1953 by Wassily Leontief, International Science Press Inc., White Plains, New York).

[...]

The Quiet War was quietly declared by the International Elite at a meeting held in 1954.

So I have now given you a better persepctive on the subject of what really happens in America and who controls it. Controlling the masses of America is the primary goal of those in power and has been since the days of Hamilton and others like him. They used the term "masses" long before Marx or Lenin. Anyway, the article goes on to make the point I am getting at:

In 1954 it was well recognized by those in positions of authority that it was only a matter of time, only a few decades, before the general public would be able to grasp and upset the cradle of power, for the very elements of the new silent-weapon technology were as accessible for a public utopia as they were for providing a private utopia.

I'm sure you don't get it, thinking that all humans are evil as you do, but if you could somehow let the sun shine into your heart, you'd see that the people are good and if we had our way, we'd have a much better life for ourselves. Our masters will not allow this because they have taken the reins of humanity. Maybe it's not a coincidence that they've used your very sad view of mankind to do it?

Are you oblivious? Has the bomb not been dropped on Hiroshima in your world? Are we not even now in a life and death race to keep some maniac from dorpping a dirty bomb or worse in the good ol' US of A, do we not have genocide in Africa, threats on all sides, AIDS, not to mention identity theft, child pornography, hackers,all of which have been either directly or indirectly connected to technology or the 'GOOD" nature of man you insist on?

Using atomic bombs to deride technology as a potential benison to mankind, is shameful. You really should check your premises.

And your comments about computers are also indicative of someone who knows little about technology. Identity theft, child porn and hacking are results of technology? Uh no. ID theft is made possible by the increasing fascist state and their papers (Americans didn't even need a driver's license just a few decades back), child porn is created by cameras, and hacking (however you define it) isn't different from any other theft.

Technology could be used to give man a good life as my last quote describes. It is engineered into society, that technology is used only for the preservation of the status quo and the powers-that-be.

Communism has failed, socialism has failed, why? Could it be the basic nature of man is always towards evil, selfishness, and lusts of life? Man doesn't just want a family, home and fulfilling life unless that is accompanied by a 52 inch screen TV, or even larger Plasma TV, the latest gas-sucking SUV, all the latest bells and whistles in technology, and plenty of distractions all around him.

If that's your view of mankind, it's no wonder you went looking for a savior. Glad you found him. I do not agree with your words above at all, further illustrating the intellectual and philosophical gulf between us.

Does average Joe want to worry about the town budget, or attend those long boring city meetings, or figure out whether the voters are gonna get mad enough to vote him out if he votes for a new highway through THEIR 40 acres?
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Oh, good plan! Then I can vote for myself, and you yourself, and next door Joe for himself, and that way there will be NO majority vote OR conversely, we will all turn into your cartoon version of Politicians!

Clearly I am not talking about the people electing themselves into office. I am talking about them controlling more of their country, not electing themselves into office. Yes, in fact, the people DO want more control, and would be willing to handle it responsibly. It is the beauracracy you describe which (as you so wonderfully point out) makes it intolerably burdensome and boring for him. It's all meant to make the common man feel stupid and helpless. It's engineered.

No, count me on the side of the original Americans i.e. the Cherokee, Creek, Karuk, Sioux and all the others who already knew how to live a satisfying life and who had no need for a savior. Native Americans were the first Americans and the laws of the Creator were written on their hearts just as they are written on yours and mine. Someday America will reflect that original premise.

Originally posted by pawnplayer


Actually, anti-Americanism have been going on since the 1960s. It's not new. The current administration only attracted and generated it.

If you look at my second post, i've explained it is not new. I did not make it clear in my first post.