US still main threat to stability in European eyes

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posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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36 per cent of respondents identify the US as the greatest threat to global stability. Better than Iran.

www.ft.com...




posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Well of course its the biggest threat to world peace it exports more arms than anyone else in the world, has a mad man armed with nuclear weapons as its president, has millions religious fanatics (some of whom think evolution is a "lie"). It spends more money on its defence than it does on its healthcare or education. The DemoRep regime abuses its people towards its own ends; it has no compassion towards anyone or anything other than big business and those who lobby it. And if global warming is a bigger threat than terrorism; then its easy for even the most patriotic Americans to see why I fear the place more than Afghanistan.

America is a good country that does many good things. But all of these goods things have nothing to do with its DemoRep regime.

The American people asked God to bless America, looks like one day God let the devil do it instead.

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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A resurgent Russia will solve that problem. The Euro's aren't happy with cause right at the moment they don't really need us. But whenever someone threatens europe's peace (Milosevic in Bosnia and Kosovo for example)and security they come running. I guarantee when Putin decides that he wants more influence over europe they'll be singing our praises again. But this time I say we tell them to stuff it.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by danwild6


A resurgent Russia will solve that problem. The Euro's aren't happy with cause right at the moment they don't really need us. But whenever someone threatens europe's peace (Milosevic in Bosnia and Kosovo for example)and security they come running. I guarantee when Putin decides that he wants more influence over europe they'll be singing our praises again. But this time I say we tell them to stuff it.


here! here! I second that...my how the end of the cold war turned out alot of euro snobs.


I remember when we supported wurope and even gave them intermediate range nukes to help defend themselves and stationed troops in europe and now after all that all they can do is sit on their thumbs exclaiming how evil america is and how its a threat to global peace.
....I got news for you euros.... it was THE US! that kept the peace in the cold war.

and if we are ever succesful in Iraq, I will never let the euros live down their hands off attitude and all the nay say they talked during all this.

I hope the Iraqis remember who helped the over throw that SOB saddam and also remember how europe wouldnt hardly lift a finger to help. (except britain)



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:30 AM
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Thanks dan and Xphiles, nice to see our "close" ally the US doesnt think we're just here to scrounge off them


Remind me again why we're still in the JSF program?

Ah yes thats right....so americans can cancel british contracts.....



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:55 AM
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Opposing Polls

I think it's always a good idea to bear in mind that ATS members live all over the world.

Thus in matters such as these, generalized blanket statements about what people in different countries are like -- also known as nationalistic bigotry -- can be hurtful to some members.

While candid opinions are always welcome, I think it's important to remember that comments made about the people of various nations can be reasonably interpreted as directed at fellow members who live in those countries.

And I see no reason why any of us should have to feel any different about each other based on what some poll says.

On ATS, what matters most is our own personal opinions, which are decided by ourselves as individuals, not what country we happen to live in.

At least, that's the opinion of an American who very much respects the rights of Europeans and anyone else to have whatever opinions they want -- especially if those opinions may not agree with mine.

Just sayin'.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 09:48 AM
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What America did during the cold war was great. It quite literally saved the whole world from becoming one huge North Korea. It wasn’t completely unselfish though; had the Russians taken Europe they would then be in position to take over America even if they got nothing but scorched radioactive earth in return it would still have made them the forever unchallenged global super power empire.

Trouble is the Cold War was what 15 years ago, and many of its issues predate that. In my opinion America saved humanity some time in the 1950's as that's the only time a European empire could have been established without the certain knowledge of awesome mutually assured destruction. Beyond that time even countries like France started to have large numbers of nukes so Europe would have been able to put up a good fight even if the Americans had somehow not been involved at all.

Americans need to understand (that in Europe at least) people fear-dislike American government not Americans. In fact the only exception is the left wing lunatic fringe that just about any democratic country has. For me the most anti American thing I’ve ever witnessed first hand was when a few years ago some friends were joking about some really weird-arrogant American tourists we had just seen. I don't think there is anything anti American about that, than it would be for some Americans to joke about Japanese tourists taking pictures of everything, or an English person with a really posh old fashioned accent. Perhaps it’s not nice but it’s defiantly not anti American as such.

If I was American I too would fear-dislike my own government if I was fully ware that to all practical purposes it is a two party state with both parties being frightfully similar. The same is true in England though I think the different voting systems have made it somewhat different most of the rest of Europe. I don’t think America’s political situation is particularly unusual but I don’t think its healthy or trustworthy ether. It’s certainly not good for the environment when they deny the existence of global warming (or at the very least the need to do much about it). Like any countries government America’s (DemoRep I call it) carries the weight of its countries sins. Regarding the European lunatic left wing fringe I have one thing to say to them “just as it is important to remember that Europeans dislike America’s DemoRep almost infinitely more than they will ever dislike it’s people; it is also important for Europeans to remember that there are many, many Americans who feel just like them.

The only time I sympathise with genuine anti Americanism is in Muslim-other dictatorships and that’s because you would hardly expect the people to know any better. Personally I see Americans, Australians, Canadian and New Zealand people as different versions of the same thing (i.e. English people). So I guess it might be a little different for some e.g. French people. Even so I'm quite sure that most French people would distinguish between American people and their government (if anything because we are fellow Westerner’s; and we are all (potentially) equally vulnerable to almost any of its flaws and problems) (government or not).



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Liberal1984 gave some good points... and for some reason i see some Europeans in here judging the American people for what our government are doing, wishing death to the people and our soldiers and i think that is just pure ignorant... because not all Americans people agree with our government actions. Hell, i'll just say majority of American people.

As far as the Missile testing goes, i'm glad we step up and say something about it... Because I wouldn't let some lunatic shooting missile and not knowing where the thing would land or what is in it... That is like someone messing around with a gun and pointing it toward me.

[edit on 20-6-2006 by IspyU]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Why would Europe or anyone in the world be threatened by Iran, North Korea, or any other supposedly evil dictator that according to US is just waiting to spill some blood. What those nations are doing is trying to survive in a one superpower (one-polar) world, where no one would protect them except for themselves.

During the Cold War, any nation that did not want to side with US, or that feared US or Western Europe for some reason, simply sided with USSR. There were a few "neutral" or non-polar nations- but look what happened to them. Yugoslavia is disolved and Serbia is all but destroyed. Now that Soviet Union is gone, the nations that do not wish to side with US are forced to ensure their survival through militarization and acquiring of the only weapon that will keep US at bay - nuclear.

If Iran or North Korea had no nukes, or didn't try to make any nukes US would have still fround reason to label them as outposts of evil, making them potential targets for American military expansion after 9/11. Iran would never attack Europe other than as retaliation. North Korea is also hardly capable of threatening world peace.


America however sensed at the turn of the century that China is rising at neckbreaking pace, and Russian quickly growing economy can bring it superpower status again in a few decades. In consideration for a possibly, or rather inevitable Cold War in the future, America used 9/11 as an exuse to build-up its military presence around the world. Look at what is happening in Ukraine, Georgia, Poland- all are new outposts of American military. However by doing this it only brought the world closer to the next Cold War, and in the process lost some old allies.

So if there is anyone threatering stability in the world it would be the US. It wasn't content with being the only super power. It wanted more. Sure there are problems all over the world, but being the strongest does not give us an exuse to mind everyone elses business. And it doesn't exactly promote democracy all over the world either. America supports some of the worst dictators in the world- look at Pakistani Musharaaf. It America really wanted to help the world, it would pay more attention to global warming and the genocide in Africa. But nooo- after Somali and Congo we have no interest in Africa- after all no oil there. However ensuring oil resources and military outposts for itself, hardly seems to be enhancing world stability.



[edit on 20-6-2006 by maloy]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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What kindof crap spin is this?

Did anybody even read the poll. 36% of those in the poll believed the US to be this threat to stability in Europe. Thats means 64% disagrees. Last I checked, 36% was a minority, and 64% is a majority, right? Or did I miss that memo.



Move Along. These aren't the droids your looking for.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
What kindof crap spin is this?

Did anybody even read the poll. 36% of those in the poll believed the US to be this threat to stability in Europe. Thats means 64% disagrees. Last I checked, 36% was a minority, and 64% is a majority, right? Or did I miss that memo.



Move Along. These aren't the droids your looking for.


here, have a WATS for that





You have voted WolfofWar for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 02:48 PM
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Uh if I was part of the Euro/UN/Rothschild/Monarchist wing of the NWO or OLD WORLD ORDER then yeah I would see the USA as a threat to my stated plans of world conquest.

Gladly the USA/Old British Empire/Rockefellers/Israel exist to stand up to them and provide some opposition.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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America is part of the problem and part of the solution. Until another country or countries wants to step up to the plate financially or militarily on actually being the bad/good cop (say China could lean on North Korea) on some of the larger issues around the world, you will continue to have less say and have to snip at what USA does. This causes distrust, jealousy, suspicion, at times hatred, and at times quietly making you happy that your country didn't have to make a sacrifice but benefited from it.

I think some US foreign policy issues have been wrong in my opinion. But like already posted. The US helped stop a Soviet takeover of Western Europe. After WWII the US could (up to 1949) have taken out the Soviet Union with nuclear blackmail or something sinster like that. But the US didn't. It helped rebuild Japan and Western Europe.

The US is not perfect, and many people are going to hate and dislike them. Hey I distrust many thing about the US, and can see why. The US will get involved in many world issues, but your country could to try to help with some of those issues. And then we could distrust your country as a threat to world security.


The news article points out that 30% think Iran is a major issue. This compares to the 36% to the US. The polls leaves out the + & - error perentage to the poll, which could even out the stats. And the French probably skewed the anti US to the poll.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
What kindof crap spin is this?

Did anybody even read the poll. 36% of those in the poll believed the US to be this threat to stability in Europe. Thats means 64% disagrees. Last I checked, 36% was a minority, and 64% is a majority, right? Or did I miss that memo.



Obviously you've missed the point completely wity your "spin". Nowhere in the article does it say "majority". It says "US still main threat to stability in European eyes". Which seems to be true.

36% voted U.S.
30% voted Iran
18% voted China
which leaves 16% voting "others"

So your spin of "64%" (a meaningless number since it was not an "A" or "B" choice) and talk of "majority" is irrelevant in regards to the U.S. being seen as the main threat.

Did you "even read the poll"?

[edit on 6/20/06 by redmage]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by redmage

Originally posted by WolfofWar
What kindof crap spin is this?

Did anybody even read the poll. 36% of those in the poll believed the US to be this threat to stability in Europe. Thats means 64% disagrees. Last I checked, 36% was a minority, and 64% is a majority, right? Or did I miss that memo.



Obviously you've missed the point completely wity your "spin". Nowhere in the article does it say "majority". It says "US still main threat to stability in European eyes". Which seems to be true.

36% voted U.S.
30% voted Iran
18% voted China
which leaves 16% voting "others"

So your spin of "64%" and "majority" is irrelevant in regards to the U.S. being seen as the main threat.

[edit on 6/20/06 by redmage]


As a Main threat? a 6% difference makes us a Main threat? The point is that 64% believe that Iran, China, and "other" (North Korea I guess?) forces are more of a threat then the United States.

Its a deliberate attempt to spin the subject of a pole by saying that the US is the Main threat of the European Stability, when infact the majority of people view otherwise.




posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
As a Main threat? a 6% difference makes us a Main threat?


I don't like it anymore than you do, but if the U.S. gets more votes than any other country then yes, in their eyes, we are seen as the "main" threat.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by redmage

Originally posted by WolfofWar
As a Main threat? a 6% difference makes us a Main threat?


I don't like it anymore than you do, but if the U.S. gets more votes than any other country then yes, in their eyes, we are seen as the "main" threat.


So because it, by itself, had a marginal difference of votes compared to all the other countries, that makes it the main threat? Nah.

Like I said, this polls a tactic to make it look like the overwhelming majority of people believe that the US is a threat to Europe. People are ignorant to the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are actually more concerned about the combined dangers of all the other countries.

64% is a strong number. But some people are just ignorant to what the statistics really mean, I suppose. Its a clever spin, but most people, I hope, see through it.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
So because it, by itself, had a marginal difference of votes compared to all the other countries, that makes it the main threat? Nah.


Yes, if more people see the U.S. as the main threat, over any other country, then in their eyes we are viewed as the main threat.


Originally posted by WolfofWar
Like I said, this polls a tactic to make it look like the overwhelming majority of people believe that the US is a threat to Europe.


I don't agree. You are the only one trying to bring/spin "majority" into the mix.


Originally posted by WolfofWar
People are ignorant to the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are actually more concerned about the combined dangers of all the other countries.


While I didn't see "combined dangers" as an option in the poll, I think a rational person could see that, from the results, the majority of the people are more concerned with other threats. However, this still doesn't change who is viewed as the "main" threat.


Originally posted by WolfofWar
64% is a strong number.


Again, in regards to the article's conclusions, 64% is a relatively meaningless number because it was not an "A" or "B" choice.


Originally posted by WolfofWar
But some people are just ignorant to what the statistics really mean, I suppose. Its a clever spin, but most people, I hope, see through it.


.................yup.


[edit on 6/20/06 by redmage]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 04:23 PM
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Excuse me, but USA has been in lots of wars in the last few years (vietnam, gulf war 1, yugoslavia, afghanistan gulf war 2)...all these war plans bring instability and a fear for the future.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by masterp
Excuse me, but USA has been in lots of wars in the last few years (vietnam, gulf war 1, yugoslavia, afghanistan gulf war 2)...all these war plans bring instability and a fear for the future.


Did you really just put Vietnam in the "last few years" category?!?

Afghanistan (not the Soviet/Afghan war of the 80's) had great support worldwide due to 9-11. As did Gulf War I, due to Iraq invading Kuait.

I see this as more of a reflection on the current situation in Iraq, and the fact that we are now engaging in wars of "choice" (not necessity) based on what many feel are blatent false pretexts.





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