Down with Political & Personal cartooning!

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
The Declaration of Independence had no legal force to nullify, and therefore no language to that effect was necessary. As for the one part of it with legal force, the Constitution did not nullify that, as we remain independent from Great Britain.

Great, good to see both documents are still applicable to the country they helped form.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
What the Constitution did nullify -- and interestingly, it contains no language to that effect -- was the Articles of Confederation. The circumstances of the Constitution's implementation is an interesting topic in itself, but quite wide of the mark of the present discussion.

True, back on point then.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No. I don't agree. It's an opinion. How many times must this be said? There may be some truth in there (Bush is a war president) but it's still an opinion. What the reader expects/believes/perceives is entirely up to them.

Too bad. Everyone is entitled to have and express their opinion. It's a Constitutional right. Highest law in the land. People can handle being hurt. I handle it. you handle it. Everyone can handle it. It's part of life.

I have no problem with people expressing their opinion. This is not the issue.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you read about slander, then you know what you're saying is untrue. An opinion isn't slander. Whether you believe it's an opinion or not.

I never said an opinion is slander.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
In this post you're using definitions and principles, maybe. You've been all over the place as regards the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, morals, civility... I'm totally lost.

Sorry, it's a topic that effects more than one person and one problem. Although I think I tied them all together, I'd be happy to repeat or rephrase anything that was unclear. I think I've done a fair share of repeating though.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But

for the great diversionary tactic. I can't help but notice you use this tactic in most of your 'debates'.

Pot, meet kettle. I do bring any analogies to a template that's applicable in this situation. I've noticed your analogies seem quite non-topical and very loosely binding at best. We'll start our own thread on the topic of going off topic sometime if you like, but let's stick to the topic, shall we?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
By the way, I'm not talking about state laws either.

Good! I'd be a quite a disadvantage I'm sure.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have. And I have told you what it looks like, what I would do, what I would expect and how I would feel. I have answered every question you have asked, even if I don't see the significance.

Glad you have but apparently not entirely. It seems you sitll do not feel or see where your rights are being violated...so we still have a ways to go on this journey.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yes, I see the difference. Welcome to life! We ALL conform to our environment.

Hehe, or we change our environment, one or the other.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We all make choices based on what we think the outcome will be. Welcome to reality.

Oh yes, me, so out of touch with reality. Give me a little credit as a person of experiences at the very least, I think I've done so for you.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This debate was really enjoyable for me for the first 6 pages or so, but your diversionary tactics, your refusal to acknowledge basic tenets, your negation of certain analogies while embracing others, your refusal to talk about your personal opinions on religion while bombarding me with questions about my personal feelings and how I would feel in certain situations and your constant changing of viewpoints and positions has made the last few exchanges not only unenjoyable, but downright painful and unpleasant.

I'm not forcing you to post. I won't talk about topics that are unrelated, sorry. Feel free to invite me to a new thread or U2U your questions about my personal opinions on religion. They have no basis here. Also, I apologize for making you feel pain and unpleasantness, that was not my intent. I really am sorry for that. If I knew, I would not have pursued. I figured it would be inconsiderate to leave any questions or issues unanswered (since I'm the thread author). Now knowing that this is the case, also acknowledging the thread topic is not one worth causing such effects, and finally realizing that I've provoked another's ill-will even though I have been advised all the while to deal with it, it's part of reality, and people get hurt, I'll cease further discussion to prevent further pain and unpleasantness.

Thank you all for your participation and I do appreciate the input given here. It's been quite educational for me, forcing me to respond to the hard questions and do research. I hope it has been a valuable experience for the readers and contributors as well. All others free feel free to discus among each other or a moderator is welcomed to close the thread.

Originally posted by saint4God
I have no problem with people expressing their opinion. This is not the issue.

Gosh, it sure sounds to me as though you do have a problem with it:

Originally posted by saint4God
The author should simply write, "it is my opinion that he is a war monger" rather than try to prove this point by a slanderous falsehood.
…
I think there is the expectation that there's an "underlying truth" in a poli/personal cartoon.
…
The direct falsehood is easy to establish. The underlying accusation cause additional harm.
…
Can you candidly tell me you have never been influence in opinion or fact by a political/personal cartoon?

Originally posted by saint4God
I'd be happy to repeat or rephrase anything that was unclear.

Then why didn’t you answer my very clear bolded request in my last post?

I honestly wish you would set out your argument in a few concise sentences so I know where you stand. I think it's:

Political cartoons are mean and 'hurt' people.
They make people look bad.
They should not be allowed because they are lies.

And why did you ignore and/or deflect on these?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What Constitutional right do political cartoons infringe upon?

Your answer... "Liberty and the pursuit of happiness." (Not Constitutional rights. Why don't you just tell the truth and say "none")

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Will you support the eradication of religious expression as strongly as you support the eradication of political cartoons?

Your answer... "What's this have to do with the topic"? After ALL the personal questions you asked and I answered!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
How does a political cartoon infringe upon the rights of liberty and the pursiut of happiness given to people by their Creator?

Your answer... "Do you believe having lies spread about you inhibits the pursuit of contentment, a pleasurable or satisfying experience for those depicted, friends and family thereof"?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
what 'harm' do these cartoons inflict? How do these chararacter drawings that exaggerate and poke fun at public figures actually 'hurt' them or their family?

Your answer... "Being that you're from the "sticks and stones" school of thought, I do not think I could convince you the fact that spite and malevolence is a bad thing."

WTF??? It goes on and on throughout the whole thread.

I have overwhelmingly answered your questions. You simply either wipe mine out in your responses, 'answer' with a question to me or divert to another subject, claiming ignorance or irrelevance. That hasn't gone unnoticed.

Originally posted by saint4God
It seems you sitll do not feel or see where your rights are being violated...

No, I do not. I don’t think they have been violated and you haven’t made a decent argument for your assertion that my “right to pursue happiness” has been violated. I have every right to pursue happiness and I’m not being prevented from doing so. I could call an agent today if I wanted. No one is stopping me from pursuing happiness. If you can prove elsewise, I'm all ears.

Originally posted by saint4God
I figured it would be inconsiderate to leave any questions or issues unanswered

WHAT? I could pick out 15 questions you have blatantly ignored!

Originally posted by saint4God
Also, I apologize for making you feel pain and unpleasantness, that was not my intent.

I don’t in any way hold you responsible for how I feel. No need for an apology. You have ‘caused’ none of my feelings.