To make things straight: Babylon is Rome. Why?

Because it's the simplest riddle in the world. That's why. Below you see the the heraldic weapons' shield of the city of Rome:


The shield depicts a she-wolf breastfeeding two children. The Latin world for she-wolf is Lupa. The funny thing is that it is also the Latin word for harlot or prostitute. The name of the city, Roma, comes from Ruma which means breast. The four mysterious letters stand for "Senatus Populus Que Romanum" or "Senate and People of Rome" in English. So now you know, if you didn't already know that is.

Book of Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rome is built uppon seven hills:
Palatine Hill (Palatium), Capitoline Hill (Capitolium), Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis), Viminal Hill (Viminalis), Esquiline Hill (Esquiliae), Caelian Hill (Caelius), Aventine Hill (Aventinus).

The Holy Roman Empire (the "Papal Empire") was eventually divided into ten "Empirial Circles":



Book of Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

If you didn't already know what Christians have known for nearly two millennia. Now you know:

1st Epistle of Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter was the leader of the congregation of Rome, and he was in Rome when he wrote this epistle.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

To make things straight: Babylon is Rome.

Of course it is, but a simple viewing of the Omen could have cleared this up for you... Nice illustration though...

Rome huh? hmmm doesn't that make the roman catholic church the work of the anti-christ then?

I thought Roma was named for Romulus and Remis, the two children who are nursing from the wolf. Didn't they found it?

Babylon is just that: Babylon.

Rome is addressed as rome, and when you say that the name of Rome is from the word roma, I disagree with that, it comes from Romu, as in Romulus, the founder. (one of the two suckling from the she-wolf.) Romulus, and his brother Remis.

That's all I really have to say. *wanders off*

Originally posted by Loki
Babylon is just that: Babylon.

Rome is addressed as rome, and when you say that the name of Rome is from the word roma, I disagree with that, it comes from Romu, as in Romulus, the founder. (one of the two suckling from the she-wolf.) Romulus, and his brother Remis.

That's all I really have to say. *wanders off*

I already pointed that out Loki.

hmm really interesting theory never looked at it from that point of view. But geographically Babylon is just where we took over IRAQ. I bet i am safe to say wathc Iraq boom in the next 10 years and become one of the biggest economies and strongest nations known to man

Biggest economy...and one of the most powerful nations in the world...all under the control of the US. Great.

NephraTari:

Rome huh? hmmm doesn't that make the roman catholic church the work of the anti-christ then?

Yes, indeed it does. Did you ever even think of anything else? Take a brief look at the Bible and then look at the Roman Church. Find 613 errors....

Loki and NotTooHappy:

I thought Roma was named for Romulus and Remis, the two children who are nursing from the wolf. Didn't they found it?

Yes, and Romulus and Remus were named after the breast/ruma of the shewolf/lupa from which they sucked. Etymology of names and words isn't easily understood, I can understand that. But this is how it is. Just look it up. It's not like it's a secret or anything. Below you'll find a good link about the subject. Well worth a read if you're interrested in the mythological history of Roma, which by the way is love/amor spelled backwords.

www.forumromanum.org...

Loki and Quicksilver:
(Mystery Babylon=Ancient Babylon)
If it was ancient Babylon which was the solution to the riddle, then why would it be a mystery in the first place? And Iraq isn't ver well known for serving wine and for adultary now are they? And ancient Babylon wasn't founded on seven hills. Did you read what Peter said about Rome in the end of my post? He is the keeper of the keys to Heaven, and he calls Rome Babylon. She is drunken from the blood of the witnesses of God. This means that she worships the lives of the disciples.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by mikromarius]

And are we not the new Roman Empire?

We put our hand across our chest when we pledge our allegiance, i have heard this was a traditional of only the Romans.


So does Babylon mean America in Rev?

check this out, my friend kairaega wrote this and sent it to me

Tell me your thoughts about it

Revelations 18: 1-9



And after these things, I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the Earth was lightened with his glory.



And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is Fallen! And is become the habitation of Devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (America has fallen, morals decaying, the nation now a home of sins and demons. The bird reference is a subtle way of pointing out the symbol America goes by�the Eagle.)



For ALL NATIONS have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the ABUNDANCE of her delicacies. (America is the richest nation, the nation that wants for nothing and is the envy of all. It is the ability to trade and deal with us that determines another country�s wealth. Cuba, Iraq�look at what they have become because we wont trade with them. We are the whore of Babylon, our country has lured every leader (Blair, Putin, ect..) to be a friend of ours just to partake of our riches. This much is apparent to all.)



And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and god hath remembered her iniquities. (This tells us not to follow our government, not to cave in and follow our leaders down this path of evil. I believe it tells us to leave, but for those of us who cannot, we must remain clean. An example of these plagues that befall the unclean of this nation would be AIDs. Those who live the opulent life that America rewards people for wanting will be stricken with plagues of their own. In other words: Be wary, and keep the moral high ground at all times.)



Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill her to double. (This means, I believe, that we must give our country grief and sorrow the same way she has given us grief and sorrow. That we must protest, and fight, and battle, and raise up against her every time she raises up against us. That for every war our country instigates, we must create a war of our own against her. The million man march, anti-war protests�these are the best examples I can give.)



How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (This states the sad truth that our country does not care about other countries and lives �high on the hog� so to speak, conveniently forgetting that we are ignoring the pain of the third world nations that cry for our help. Our nation glorifies itself and calls itself great, it calls itself a nation of god, under god, for god, and it acts like the agent of the devil. So, since �she� does not experience the sorrow and pain of these other nations, then the bible says to give her pain and sorrow. In a way, this validates every protest or march the activists have done so far, and somewhat frighteningly, might also validate terrorist attacks against America, although you would not catch me doing such a thing.)



Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.(The �one day� quote is not to be taken seriously. Especially since a day in heaven is nearly a year or two on earth, according to the apocryphal studies. However, think about what the past two years have been like. 9/11, the Columbia disaster, two nightclub disasters, Anthrax scares galore, and now a horrible war on the horizon. We are a nation under siege, a nation in mourning, a nation who is at the bottom of a pit of sorrow. America is being judged by god.)



And the kings of earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning. (The countries that benefit from their close association with us like England, for instance, will cry for us and mourn for us�such as the mourning after 9/11, because our collapsed economy will also affect their economy as well.)



Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas the great city of Babylon, that mighty city for one hour is thy judgment come. (For fear of being attacked the same way, many countries will �stand afar� from us, meaning they will distance themselves from us and refuse to help us or join us in our battles. This much is incredibly obvious. America will be judged.)

Micromarius makes some good points.
I however, always thought that the U.S. was babylon.
It certainly fits.

Nope, its Rome,

Revelations, and part of the NT is written in a form of code, as the Romans would not take kindly to the christians saying nasty things about them (hey look what still they did to the christians when they DIDN'T say nasty things about the romans).

So in Revelations they use symbolism as a disguise. Babylon was the historical bogey man state for Israel having conquered them twice and dragged them off to exile. So it naturally came to mean Rome. There are other symbolic desrciptions of Rome around as well.

That was a good post mic, I was interested in the word for harlot being lupa and wolf.

Originally posted by Loki
Babylon is just that: Babylon.

Rome is addressed as rome, and when you say that the name of Rome is from the word roma, I disagree with that, it comes from Romu, as in Romulus, the founder. (one of the two suckling from the she-wolf.) Romulus, and his brother Remis.

That's all I really have to say. *wanders off*

Revelations was a metaphorical response to Rome... hell, I'd even wager that there are similarities between Las Vegas and Babylon as well.

And Irag not being to high on whores and drink? Times change. Look at America... wasn't there a Prohibition? America has changed alot in just 75 years... Irag has had several THOUSAND years to change.

The church is evil. Jesus didn't like the money-takers (yet every Sunday, give 15% tithe)... Jesus didn't teach from the SINagoges (but I suppose, being a heretic, he wouldn't have been allowed)... And yet, how many people were killed in the Inquisition, the Holy Wars, even the Witch Trials? The Vatican has an agenda... too bad it isn't God's.



*I misread something... thus the edit... sorry all around*

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by soothsayer]

Taking the Bible into consideration Rome seems the more likely candidate, with respect to St Malachi (who was made a saint by the Vatican by the way) he seemed to have no doubt's.

That he was made a Saint could imply that neither did they.

Any thoughts?

I disagree. I think that Babylon is just that, Babylon, and that there is a possibility that the Vatican might be the backbone for the Harlot.

But hey, this is just as I see it. I don't see my position being any more rock-solid than anyone's else's. I do know that in time, those left behind will know for a fact.

Originally posted by soothsayer
Revelations was a metaphorical response to Rome... hell, I'd even wager that there are similarities between Las Vegas and Babylon as well.

Yes, her sinful way of living has spread around the globe. In a way we are her children in the West today. And I feel it is my duty to tell her in her face that I feel ashamed about her life. Fans tend to dress up like their idols..... You would probably find dozens of lookalikes around the world today.

And Irag not being to high on whores and drink? Times change. Look at America... wasn't there a Prohibition? America has changed alot in just 75 years... Irag has had several THOUSAND years to change.

As long as Muslims stay Muslim, it is absurd to even think about them decriminalising alcohol and prostitution. It is thevery core of their religion. Mohammed understood the Book of Revelation, he believed in Jesus. And the Koran is a set of rules and prophecies written to avoid God's judgement in order to receive salvation, just like the Tannakh is.

The church is evil. Jesus didn't like the money-takers (yet every Sunday, give 15% tithe)... Jesus didn't teach from the SINagoges (but I suppose, being a heretic, he wouldn't have been allowed)... And yet, how many people were killed in the Inquisition, the Holy Wars, even the Witch Trials? The Vatican has an agenda... too bad it isn't God's.

Jesus was a highly respected, though disputed Rabbi who taught and and held speeches among the priests and the scribes in the synagogues. The reason the Pharicees wanted to get rid of him was that they had power over the synagogues, and they feared that they would loose that power if the wind changed. Jesus taught in the Temple the first time when he was twelve, and he marvelled and amazed all the scribes and the priests present. Jesus was the most rightious Jew who has ever lived, he attended the synagogue or the Temple atleast once a week, probably every day.

Edit: But it seems obvious from reading the Gospel that the years of his ministry was a result of him being expelled from synagogues. This may be why he stressed he was without sin, a rightious son of God. And why he made counter measures chasing away those who changed money and sold sacrifices in the courtyard infront of the Temple.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by mikromarius]

Originally posted by Netchicken
Nope, its Rome,
...
So in Revelations they use symbolism as a disguise. Babylon was the historical bogey... So it naturally came to mean Rome.

This (whole post) is 100% correct.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

You know what I say Mik! Nonsense! The Vatican wasn't built on any of the Seven Hills that Rome was founded on. Vatican is Vatican, Rome is Rome. It might point to pagan Rome not the Vatican or the Church.

Also the Holy Roman Empire wasn't ever based in the Vatican. It was founded by Charlemagne in 800 and stayed France/Germany/northern Italy. Another name for the HRE is the Empire of the Germans.

[Edited on 10-23-2003 by Cearbhall]

In Phillip K. Dick's final trilogy, he expounds upon this idea- That the social control mechanisim of Rome was transfered to the Pope after the Fall of Rome. The same organization has been controlling world affairs for 4,000 years. "In order to fight the Empire, one had to become what it represents. If a segment of the Empire is defeated, the victor assumes it's role, thus becoming what was defeated. In this way the mechanism of control is sustained" Babylon is our paternal, militant, consumer- oriented society, which we aren't about to give up. All of our "beat em up and take it" paradigms only sustain the Roman system- It's a way of doing things that we are conditioned to, more than any particular person pulling strings behind the curtain. The system is so successful precisely because it opperates in the open and is considered to be "the sensible way to do things". It is "official."
Responsible Anarchy is the future hope of Humanity.....

Originally posted by Cearbhall
You know what I say Mik!

Nonsense! The Vatican wasn't built on any of the Seven Hills that Rome was founded on. Vatican is Vatican, Rome is Rome. It might point to pagan Rome not the Vatican or the Church.

The Vatican may verywell be the eigth as I will explain below.

Also the Holy Roman Empire wasn't ever based in the Vatican. It was founded by Charlemagne in 800 and stayed France/Germany/northern Italy. Another name for the HRE is the Empire of the Germans.

When Romulus founded Rome in the area around Palatine Hill, this area was called Germanum, hence the phrasing. And as for Vatican Hill not being among the original seven. Rome is also divided into seven Catholic Church districts. Have you read the whole part about the beast? How the beast itself is the eighth king who is also one of the seven to whom all the rest pays homage and give their power. Peter the Roman, the last pope according to st. Malachy's prophecy about the future popes which the Church seems very comitted to live by, will probably be a cardinal from one of these seven church districts. It would fit perfectly. Toi say that the HRE wasn't controlled from the Vatican is bogus. The pope coronated their emperors, and the very papal crown is symbolic of this power. The three diadems in the pope's crown symbolises how the Pope is above both the kings and the emperor.

Edit: And why was it called the Holy Roman Empire in the first place? To show that they had their power "from God", it's emperors were coronated by the Pope who still today is regarded next to God in power.

Clovis of the Merovingians in France was given the title "Novus Constantinus" or "New Constantine" in return for his conversion to the Roman Church by the Pope in 496. This is the true beginning of the Holy Roman Empire. You forget the French emperors....

Blessings,
Mikroamarius

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by mikromarius]