Persecution of Christians ?

Jadg your responses to date have been full of links and referrences (with exception to this thread) why????

Where have I plagerized (treated data as my own)????

You like to argue well for the record you have one

No way in hell the Jews denied Jesus based upon "Duh we do not think is the right one."

Again, I see no response in keeping with your standard.

Present an argument which specifically denies the link as a whole as valid?

I am not impressed Jagd feel free to do so

worshipping one and forsaking all...
or respecting all and forsaking none...

From the "You're going to Heaven Thread"
quote:
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from Judaism
(Quotations from Yehuda Ashlag)

Isaac Luria:
Prior to the Four Worlds, there was only the Endless, in the Form of "He is One and His name is One", in a wondrous concealed unity... [Even the Angels] have no conception of the Endless, blessed be He. There is not intellect created which could conceive of Him, since He has no place, and no boundary, and no name.
(p. 89, Verses 30-31)

Yehuda L. Ashlag:
... all names and appellations discussed in the wisdom of the Kabbalah concern only the Light extended form the Creator's substance and not the substance itself, for truly speaking, we have neither word nor thought of expression by which to speak of His substance.
(p. 56)

... with one "Thought" of the Creator all existence was emanated and created, the upper worlds in conjunction with the lower worlds, including the evolutionary processes of development which creation will constantly undergo until all functions reach their final completion -- the Millennium...

Thus this unique Thought of the Creator is simultaneously:

the doer of everything;
the substance of all actions;
the toil and endeavor;
the achiever of the goal;
the perfection and full reward awaited by the created ones.
(p. 37)

... the Creator, the Thought and the Light are one and the same thing. In accordance with this condition, the Endless Light extending from the Creator's substance enveloped all existence within the abundance [where the abundance is this very Light]; while the word "Kingdom", within the Endless Light, comprises all the recipients of this abundance -- until it attains its destined future of absolute completion and perfection.

(p. 94)
This Upper Light always remains in a condition of absolute tranquillity... Since all we can grasp is the concept of reception of Light by the vessels, we call this knowledge the "wisdom of receiving."
(p. 110)

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quote:
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from Christianity
(Quotations from Cyril of Alexandria)

The divine transcendence
... the difference between Creator and created is incomparable...
(Cyril of Alexandria: Select Letters", p. 103, quoting Cyril's "On the Creed" 10)
[God is] incorporeal, immaterial, impalpable, beyond quantity and circumscription, beyond form and figure.
(The Image of God in Man according to Cyril of Alexandria, p. 22, quoting "Responsiones ad Teberium" 14)

Men of good sense who focus their minds' eyes sharply on the attributes of the ineffable Godhead, see it as existing beyond every created thing, transcending all acuity of intellect, being wholly outside bodily appearance and, as all-wise Paul says, "dwelling in light unapproachable" (1 Tim 6:16). But if the light surrounding it is unapproachable, how can one gaze on it? We see "in a glass darkly and know in part" (1 Cor 13:12). Deity, then, is wholly incorporeal, without dimensions or size and not bounded by shape.
(Cyril of Alexandria: Select Letters, p. 185, quoting "Doctrinal Questions and Answers" 1)


The incarnation of the Uncreated One
In Christ, our flesh achieved what was beyond the ability of our condition
... for the Only Begotten Word of God has saved us by putting on our likeness. Suffering in the flesh, and rising from the dead, he revealed our nature as greater than death or corruption. What he achieved was beyond the ability of our condition, and what seemed to have been worked out in human weakness and by suffering was really stronger than men and a demonstration of the power that pertains to God.
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 130)
The Only Begotten did not become man only to remain in the limits of the emptying. The point was that he who was God by nature should, in the act of self-emptying, assume everything that went along with it. This was how he would be revealed as ennobling the nature of man in himself by making [human nature] participate in his own sacred and divine honors.
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 101)


Christ accepted human limitations
[Christ did not] regard the economy as unacceptable by disdaining the limitations involved in the self-emptying.
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 76 )

[Christ was wearied (Jn 4:6), hungry (Mt 4:2) and required sleep (Mt 8:24).] Just as we say that the flesh [assumed in the incarnation] became his very own, in the same way the weakness of the flesh became his very own in an economic appropriation to the terms of the unification. So he is "made like his brethren in all things except sin alone" (Heb. 2:17).
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 107)


The paradox of Word's self-emptying
Indeed the mystery of Christ runs the risk of being disbelieved precisely because it is so incredibly wonderful. For God was in humanity. He who was above all creation was in our human condition; the invisible one was made visible in the flesh; he who is from the heavens and from on high was in the likeness of earthly things; the immaterial one could be touched; he who is free in his own nature came in the form of a slave; he who blesses all creation became accursed; he who is all righteousness was numbered among transgressors; life itself came in the appearance of death. All this followed because the body which tasted death belonged to no other but to him who is the Son by nature.

(On the Unity of Christ, p. 61)
[For the salvation of the whole world Christ] wished to suffer, even though he was beyond the power of suffering in his nature as God, then he wrapped himself in flesh that was capable of suffering, and revealed it as his very own, so that even the suffering might be said to be his because it was his own body which suffered... Since the manner of the economy allows him blamelessly to choose both to suffer in the flesh, and not to suffer in the Godhead (for the selfsame was at once God and man)...(cf. 1 Pet. 4:1).
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 118)


The divinity of the Word is undiminished
[Christ] did not cease to be God when he became man...

(On the Unity of Christ, p. 76 )
We must not think that he who descended into the limitation of manhood for our sake lost his inherent radiance and that transcendence that comes from his nature. No, he had this divine fullness even in the emptiness of our condition, and he enjoyed the highest eminence in humility, and held what belongs to him by nature (that is, to be worshipped by all) as a gift because of his humanity.
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 123)

The Word was alive even when his holy flesh was tasting death... The body which lay under corruption became a body of life so as to become beyond death and corruption.
(On the Unity of Christ, p. 115)

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quote:
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from Islam
(Quotations from Titus Burckhardt)

Muhyi-d-Din ibn 'Arabi in his Epistle on Unity, the Risalat al Ahadiyah:
... None grasps Him save He Himself. None knows Him but He Himself... He knows Himself by Himself... Other-than-He cannot grasp Him. His impenetrable veil is His own Oneness. Other-than-He does not cloak Him. His veil is His very existence. He is veiled by His Oneness in a manner that cannot be explained. Other-than-He does not see Him; whether prophet, envoy, or prefected saint or angel near unto Him. His prophet is He Himself. His envoy is He. His message is He. His word is He. He has sent word of His ipseity by Himself, from Himself to Himself, without intermediary or causality other than Himself...Other-than-He has no existence and so cannot bring itself to naught...
(pp. 28-29)

(Paraphrased: According to the fundamental formula of Islam, the 'testimony' known in Arabic as the shahadah

There is no divinity if it be not The Divinity
(la ilaha ill-Allah)

which, so to say, 'defines' the Divine Unity. This formula should be translated as here indicated and not, as usually the case, 'there is no god but Allah', for it is proper to retain in it the appearance of ... paradox.

Its first part, 'the negation'..., denies in a general manner the same idea of divinity which the second part, the 'affirmation'... affirms by isolation; in other words the formula as a whole postulates an idea -- that of divinity -- which at the same time it denies as a genus. This is the exact opposite of a 'definition', for to define something means first to determine its 'specific difference' and then to bring it to the 'nearest genus,' i.e. to general concepts. Now as the shahadah indicates, Divinity is 'defined' precisely by the fact that Its reality eludes ever category...

According to this 'testimony; God is distinct from all things and nothing can be compared to Him... Now perfect incomparability requires that nothing can be set face to face with the incomparable and have any relationship whatever with it; this amounts to saying that nothing exists in face of the Divine Reality so that, in It, all things are annihilated. 'God was and nothing with Him and He is now such as He was' (hadith qudsi).

Thus extreme 'remoteness' must imply its opposite. Since nothing can be opposed to God -- for it would then be another 'divinity' -- every reality can only be a reflection of the Divine Reality. Moreover, every positive meaning one might give to the expression ilah (divinity) will be transposed in divinis: 'there is no reality if it be not The Reality', 'there is no force if it be not The Force', 'there is no truth if it is not The Truth.' We must not seek to conceive of God by bringing Him down to the level of things; on the contrary, things are reabsorbed into God so soon as one recognizes the essential qualities of which they are constituted.
(pp. 53-54)

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Hinduism
(Quotations from The Bhagavad Gita)
... the beginningless Brahman, ... can be called neither being nor nonbeing... It is both near and far, both within and without every creature; it moves and is unmoving. In its subtlety it is beyond comprehension. It is indivisible, yet appears divided in separate creatures. Know it to be the creator, the preserver, and the destroyer. Dwelling in every heart, it is beyond darkness. It is called the light of lights, the object and goal of knowledge, and knowledge itself.
(BG 13:12, 15-17, pp. 170-171)

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Buddhism
(Quotations from Sogyal Rinpoche)
[Quoting Dudjom Rinpoche on the buddha-nature:]
No words can describe it
No example can point to it
Samsara does not make it worse
Nirvana does not make it better
It has never been born
It has never ceased
It has never been liberated
It has never been deluded
It has never existed
It has never been nonexistent
It has no limits at all
It does not fall into any kind of category
(p. 49)

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quote:
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from Zen
(Quotations from Bodhidharma)
... this mind, through endless kalpas without beginning, has never varied. It has never lived or died, appeared or disappeared, increased or decreased. It's not pure or impure, good or evil, past or future. It's not true or false. It's not male or female. It doesn't appear as a monk or a layman, an elder or a novice, a sage or a fool, a buddha or a mortal. It strives for no realization and suffers no karma. It has no strength or form. It's like space. You can't possess it and you can't lose it. Its movements can't be blocked by mountains, rivers, or rock walls... No karma can restrain this real body. But this mind is subtle and hard to see. It's not the same as the sensual mind. Everyone wants to see this mind, and those who move their hands and feet by its light are as many as the grains of sand along the Ganges, but when you ask them, they can't explain it. It's theirs to use. Why don't they see it?

... Only the wise know this mind, this mind called dharma-nature, this mind called liberation. Neither life nor death can restrain this mind. Nothing can. It's also called the Unstoppable Tathagata, the Incomprehensible, the Sacred Self, the Immortal, the Great Sage. Its names vary but not its essence.
(pp. 21-23)

All these quotes were copied without modification from web pages and without reference to the web site as being the source of the quotations:

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

www.digiserve.com...

If you want to know why the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, ask a Jew - don't ask a goy. Basically it does boil down to Jesus was not the Messiah the Jews wanted (a guy to kick the Romans out of Israel). For anyother answer ask them not a goy.

christians persecuted?...
is that it?
by whom are they to be persecuted from their fellow man...
because thay are not above the level man is at at that present time(god)...

let me ask you this...
are chickens to be persecuted?...
are dogs?...
why not dogs because they are domestic animals?...
and chickens so because they are wild?...

does this ever end or does it continue in the fashion you are presenting as a spiral to self with christ body the savior saving you from the self?...
why do you need salvation?
is this your belief?
saving from yourself or fellow man that is to persecute christians...

dont get me wrong i believe in the christ body...

but do you? do you believe he is within you and all beings?...

so because christ was in the image of man and had extra attributes than the common man in that time period of civilization he was "perfect"...

are not all creations that are not tampered with?...

where are you the observer finding imperfections in the object?...
and if there are imperfections in the object is that due to your view of perfection?...

is the grass always going to be greener in iraq...
and in iraq is the grass going to be greener in america?...

who are you to judge if you are not perfect?...
and if you are why are you judging?...

for within perfection lies many things...

when i cut my grass and my mother says it looks good does she not see the dead crickets?...
but in all the grass is still green by our perception...

some very interesting times we live in indeed...

Toltec, you seem to be having a great deal of difficulty comprehending Jadg. Let me help you out.

He who lives in glass houses should not throw rocks. That is in reference to your comments thrown at him, such as he is FOS and other means of going to attack when you have no legitimate response.

I have watched and noticed your bias. A non-Christian may attack and insult a Christian and you stand and watch, but let the Christian defend himself and you are there. If you cannot handle the job, stand up and say so. If you are going to do the job, do it right, be fair.

Originally posted by Toltec
Jadg your responses to date have been full of links and referrences (with exception to this thread) why????

Where have I plagerized (treated data as my own)????

You like to argue well for the record you have one

No way in hell the Jews denied Jesus based upon "Duh we do not think is the right one."

Again, I see no response in keeping with your standard.

Present an argument which specifically denies the link as a whole as valid?

I am not impressed Jagd feel free to do so

For the record, you have cut/paste since you have been here, and were warned a few times.

I find your lack of understanding of the very basics of a religion that you want to ridicule is irritating, your attempt to tear it down with dubious and shaky articles written by people with no better understanding than you annoying, and your uneven manner of moderating unacceptable. The fact that I had to come down here to the sewer to see if you have been doing as advertised really angers me, and to find out that it is true downright pisses me off! You wanted to be a mod, I argued for you, you're a mod, now do it right!

As far as Christianity, you didn't even recognize the spanking, you might as well stop your attempts at back-door insults and attacks, you don't understand it enough to do it, and you certainly don't understand it enough to fence with one who does.

Gentlemen you are behaving like children....

1. That site is called mysticism in Christianity not parallels in Christianity the format I am using was not intended by the creator of the site.

2. These are quotes, which belong to other people not the creator of the site, none of the content taken from this site and copied to my blog is specifically written by the creator of the site.

3. The content copied to my site is not organized in a way I need it for the presentation I am making. To simply post the site and sugest one look at it for what I intend on presenting would not make sense.

4. The order in which information is formatted in the blogs is in keeping with the limitations of the blog. In other words when I was completed with the format, needed to present the information in the way I am suggesting (as to its relationship to parallels then the topmost entry would have included a link to the site.

TC what is your problem?????

What are you talking about??????

The purpose of this site is to discuss issues, which are controversial

What is this with the Glasshouses??????

Why are you accusing me in open forum of such a thing?????????

I respond to as many post as I can and to be honest it is you who are behaving in a biased manner (beyond any shadow of doubt).

My opinion concerning MY BELIEFS has nothing to do with my responsibilities as a mod.

I have done everything in respect to what one person can do in this site in respect to addressing the issues of inappropriate behavior. I do more in respect to it than is and has been suggested.

You accuse me of being biased?????

You accuse me of pirating data???

You accuse me of plagiarizing in a U2U about a month ago and yesterday said I was going to get a spanking
and the first thing, which was brought up by Jagd, is your exact words?

We have not discussed this privately with me but is seems apparent you have conspired against me with members.

To be honest TC what you have done is wrong.

Has any member posted in this site information warranting a warning?

Do I deal with foul language at this site?

Do I engage is posting frivolous information?

Is the content of my posts related to the topic of Religion and Spiritualism in respect to a conspiracy site?

If I ask as question or post information which is not in keeping with your ideal, is that not an opportunity for those who feel as you do to respond in an intelligent way?

Is against the policies of this site for me to present comments, which argue a point from the perspective of disagreeing with an idea?

Is it against the policies of this site for me to express myself?

I am and adhered to the policies presented at the face of this forum in respect to presenting articles for review.

There is no need to warn me about anything in my opinion you do not seem to be making any sense

You are Jagd have as of yet responded intelligently to the topic of this thread (on the real side)

I am a 41 year old man who the hell do you think you are talking to (in respect to spanking)??

What is your problem???

If the initial post is in your opinion invalid them why all this other and unrelated issues????

This is a discussion forum, which offers information in respect to Conspiracies and as a result looking into all potential causes.

I am not a hypocrite, so as the Mod for Religion and Spiritualism I will present information related to the subject at hand. Which for the record does include material related to Christianity and all the other religions (which I am doing as well in my blog)

---------------------------------

Bigsage to be honest the term persecution is suggestive of people making accusations or threats or to cause harm without foundation.

Any thoughts?

TC I am offended and your behavior towards me persecution

Just so we are clear

who are we as men to cancel out someone elses spirtual
light for in the end all paths lead to god we are always eager to say the way we worship god was ordained by god and all other ways or wrong. each persons spiritual path is there own and as tey reach higher lvls of awareness more is revealed to them alot of people pray asking for answers but never want to take the time to listen to the response given to the spirit again who are we as man to judge anothers spirtual it is nothing but ego that interfers with our enlightenment for in the end freinds all paths lead to god some or just longer then others

forgive me for my crude spelling i do not know english very well

Toltec, are you in America? Do you not understand the euphamism? I didn't expect a literal spanking.

Everyone is biased, one way or another. But, as a mod, one cannot allow the bias to interfere. I u2u'd you in reference to this, and you said you ok. It is obvious you are not. Your offense toward a Christian and allowance of Christians being insulted but being quick to spank a Christian for returning the favor was in public. You are offended? Sorry, but what you should be doing is reevaluating yourself. Argue your point, make good positions, but do your job properly. I had no problem defending others when I held your position, I ref'd as I should have. When the time came I could not stand being in the sewer anymore, I raised my hand. There's no shame.

Thomas you U2Ued me and asked that I provide special support to Christian as they constitute a majority in the US.

While that is correct as to the secular version in respect to our prior conversation you made clear you did not consider them Christians. To be honest as a result have no idea what you are talking about.

My response to you was that as this is a predominately Christian society. Should not a site, which looks into conspiracies, address the issue of Christianity as relatable to the matter suggested? If this were for instance a Buddhist society the same would apply in respect to the same issues.

Thomas you have royally disrespected me and thank for adding by lying with respect to our conversation (which your first U2U was titled Plagiarism, which you misspelled by the way).

I am not impressed

and it is you who are being biased again simply respond intelligently to the thread topics. If you can't then I am not the one who has the problem.

With respect to this issue in regards to my Blog you have really stepped over the line with me.

From another thread
Well..
what if christ came back to earth? what do you think he would see of the church etc?

I think he shoul;d get the angel of death and kill the fking lot of them... so much corruption

Since the church is composed of all Christians, this post is advocating the killing of all Christians (of course by the angel of death). But the sentiment to kill all Christians is there. Comments anybody????

Yes you forgot to quote me....

You know this is so funny

The OT must be soooo different from the Torah you could drive a truck though it

Toltec:
Then I must conclude that you concur with the concept of killing Christians as per my previous post.

You guys are really behaving is a very strange way.

My question is again is the torah and the OT different?

Quite franky gentlemen I understand the seriousness of such a statement but I am just asking the question.

Is it a sin to review the Torah or something (boy that would make the matter worst).

I simply asked the question

This is the way you guys want to respond feel free

This is actually fun

Toltec:
Well find the passages from the Torah you want reviewed, post them (i. e., Daniel 9:24 - 9:27), and they will be reviewed. However, it has already been said that one set of passages does match. You are expecting a review of the entire translation of several different Bibles. (That would be comparing several thousand pages of text.) Now if you have some specific passages that you would like checked out and analyzed, I would be glad to do that for you. However the extent of Bible literature precludes a passage by passage comparision due to the length of time it would take. So give some specific key prophecy passages you want compared.

Because Toltec when I read certain authors as references for a web page, I know I do not

Yes, we know, good old christian brainwashing, god cammands you to deny any logic that might rip your silly outdated religion to shreds.

But, I also feel the same when I see words from Christian, um....scholars, lol.

Anyway, your post is excellent, Toltec. It shows the basic hypocrisy.

You see, the Christians were bad Roman citizens, they were trouble makers, they were inciting riots, turning against thier Roman civilization, so on and so forth. The ideals of society back then were strong, The christian faith was attacking and subverting institutions and beliefs Romans held dear. Mind you, Christianity is a Masochistic death cult, and naturally, the majority of adherents in the orginal days were slaves, or people sunjugated by the Romans.

Anyways, as CXhrist insanity spread in the fall of Rome and infected the rest of the world with its madness, the Christians themselves became the oppressors. Long gone was the idea of love thy enemy, turn the other cheek. People were massacred and butchered for refusing to convert, corrupt kings converted to it. The masses were converted by the sword, old pagan temples attacked, practiioners of the old pagan faiths were killed everywhere. The Christians began to do to the pagans what the Romans once did to them. The old pagans, who did not follow or believe in the silly suicidal teachings of christianity suddenly became enemies of the state, and were sought out and persecuted themselves. This persecution of heathens continued on for more than 1000 years until the age of enlightenment and the scientific revolutions pretty much threw christianity out on its sorry ass. By then, however, the churches controled so much weath, Christianity had held its ground.

Thus, now in the moder age, Christians are once again laughed at for thier silly beliefs. We now know the earth is not the center of the universe, that it rotates around the sun, that it is not flat, and that many of the bible stories are fairy tales and scientific jokes. Yet the Christians still hold thier insanity dear, they still hold thier schitzophrenic beliefs dear to thier heart as mankind advances and leaves them in thier dark ages.

So, as to the persecution fo the Christians, naturally, I must say, since they did the same thing to people when they were in power, why should it be looked on as a bad thing?

The Romans needed some form of amusement, what better way then to feed a cult of religious loonies to some poor hungry lions?

Excuse me???????

Go back a couple of pages where I asked you about the Link

Specifically the second one

You want to know the crazy part all I wanted to do was address this issue.

Does my original post claim I found it interesting or that I agreed with it.

I am really trying to understand what is going on here?

Jagd I am a very educated man who simply prefers being on the Internet as opposed to watching TV.

That it!!!!!!

The links were related to the site for there conspiratorial nature

As I understand it you come here to address the Christian point of view and you have presented
your self as educated in respect to what you know.

All I am doing is giving You a real chance to make your point, but you keep going on an on about how I have something against you.

I don�t and since very few people in this site are prepared to argue with you I am giving you a chance to argue with someone who really does know enough to do so.

Why did you come here man???

Is this not what you wanted in the first place????




Any thoughts?

Well Skadi, let me ask you one question. Do you hold that only the concept of the Christian God is wrong? How about other views of theism such as Hinduism, Islam, Zoroasterianism, some forms of Buddhism, and certain pagan beliefs? After all the Hindus believe in God (Brahma), well Skadi was is your view point on that?