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Islamic Injustice on ATS

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posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Muslim
SIMI (Student Islamic Movement of India) Islamic terrorist organization. Responsible for inciting violence in India.
Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
Is partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.
Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
Seeks to establish Islamist rule in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, Coptic Christians, tourists, Jews, and “morally offensive” buildings.
Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
Seeks to establish Islamist rule in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.
In recent years has lost influence as the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat gained power.
Hamas (founded 1987)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
In Arabic, "the foundation" or "the base."
Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hezbollah
Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain
Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
JKLF Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front - Pakistan and Kashmir
Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
(Jihad Rite) - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
Muslim Brotherhood - international
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
Kurdish-Hizbullah - Turkey
Hofstad Network - Netherlands
Hizb-ut-Tahrir

en.wikipedia.org...
[Note: Sorry about the size of the post. Just wanted to show what terorist groups operate from which religions. I think Muslim terrorist organisations more than dominate the list]

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Knights]

www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> Mod Note: Surround your snippet and link to an external source with these new tags: [ex] --> Begin external source content
[/ex] --> End external source content






[edit on 16-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 02:14 PM
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Winchester, I aint your research assistant. If you had asked nicely, I would have been more than happy to help you along the path to erudition. Or, if you paid me, you wouldn't even have to ask nicely.


Look into Liberia, Nigeria, Burma, even Lebanon in the 1980's.

Edit: Knights provided a big list,
, but it remains to be seen if that makes any difference. If I've learned anything in life: If someone is dead-set on NOT knowing, there's nothing you can do to help them. They have to put in the effort, and make the decisions - otherwise everybody's wasting a whole lot of time for nothing.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by shire19
these terrorists fight for a cause that they believe to be justified and convicing them of otherwise by simply protesting won't be enough.

So what are you saying? That moslems cant stop terrorism in their religion because its difficult ?
As you say, protests are not enough, then why havent the moslem community adopted a different strategy to deal with the crisis ? If they plan to build a nuclear bomb I'm sure they can counter fanatics and raving imams!


Take the Iraq war protests for example, it's said '36 million people' across the globe took part in almost '3,000' protests but that hardly stopped the war on Iraq.

These protestors protested against the Wests war on Iraq, not terrorism in Iraq. And these protests have had an enormous result in the West, with leaders from all allied nations being brought to task and the role of the West in Iraq being more deeply scrutinized. In some case nations have actually withdrawn, like the Italian contingent in Iraq. So you see, the protests have helped.



Some Muslims are so brainwashed or see the wrong-doing in certain parts of the world that they're anger will make them turn to radicalism and start comitting acts of terrorism and still believe it's justified.

How come christians havent had these notions or jews ? Why arent there christian terrorist organizations blowing crashing planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in the subways etc in Damascus, Riyadh, Tehran etc? Surely, a lot of Christians have died in acts of terrorism and still do today with carbombs, embassy attacks, TV beheadings etc. Arent there some christians angry with the "wrong-doing" they see being done against their people ?



You know terrorism especially Islamic terror doesnt just pop his head out of nowhere for no particular reason, it takes two to tango.
And like I said above some will turn to radicalism because they will turn it into an eye for an eye issue

So your saying that its not their fault ? They just have to go blow themselves up in a crowd of civilians to vent their anger every time some palestinian dies ? Is it solely a moslems prerogative to get "angry" ?

You say that you cant control these terrorists elements and yet dont want to face criticism ? Do you see the irony here ?
All you have said are petty excuses for the incompetence of the moslem community in stemming the growth of radical elements. You present excuses, rationalizations why you cannot preventing it, even going so far as to claim it as justified retaliation! Never owning up, standing up and accepting responsibility for the moslem communities failure to control its own religion is just a reflection of the state of the "pacifists" section in the moslem community. What I want to ask is, Is it indifference or is it just incompetence ?

You preach to be against terrorists yet make no attempt in stopping those who wish to cause terror or have failed miserably in preventing this, yet you claim that the aggreived communites should abstain from criticising you for your apathy and disdain towards the security of others ? Thats rediculous !!

As they say, put up or shut up !



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Religion is the utter downfall of mankind. If we as a race (Human race..) do not find a way to get this monkey off of our backs it will ultimately destroy us. There has never , in my eyes, been anything positive on a global scale comming out of a religious belief system.

It's time to stop telling these fairy tales to our children.



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:12 PM
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Of course not all Muslims are terrorists. Yet all Muslims who take the Quran word for Word will likely end up as terrorists. THAT is the problem. The problem isn't religion either. It's religion+rabid nationalism. Wherever you have that mix things screw up, doesn't matter what the religion is. Thankfully as a Christian this world is nothing but an empty shell of it's former state to me- I do have to be careful on how I handle everyday events and not be negligent though.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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We learn from history that we learn nothing from history... specially if we don't know history to begin with, in this case islamic extremism.
It didn't start with Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden, it started 60 years ago in Egypt. A lot of people don't know that and don't care that much. They don't know about Egypt's fight against these people (*gasp* like omg, it is true, there were people fighting terror way before Bush and Rumsfeld).

Another thing is this "they hate western values and thats why they fight" thing. It is not about that, they hate western imperialism and constant meddling into other countries' affairs while absolutely denying such action in their countries by others. At least thats what the whole thing is about now to some(Mind you, the irony being that this "fight" against opression of inocents is fought by killing innocents and probably those who ordered it would do the same thing they are fighting against if they had power in their hands). 50 years ago it was about stopping the decline of moral values in islamic countries that could be caused by liberal western way of life. Yeah, terrorists hate liberals
, oh the irony when I see all the posts making liberals out to be the best friends of terrorists... such is ignorance I guess.
But all that is not known to many who only see the whole thing as a simplified issue of "they hate our freedom".

I won't even go into the complicated events that played out during the cold war in Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan and all that.

In the end it culminated in Al-Qaeda spreading beyond borders of islamic countries and the west woke up. Not knowing the background story many were surprised and such situation was used to plant stories like "they hate you cause they hate christians and jews for no reason, they are going to kill you all".
Suddenly, Muslims had to prove that they are NOT guilty (that being contrary to backbone of american justice system "innocent till proven guilty").

Much like the Jews were viewed throughout the history as a collective and not individuals, Muslims were branded by some the exact same way. They were all somehow responsible for the actions of few.

If you apply the same criteria to Muslims like you apply to lets say americans, then you have to follow a certain logical path:
killers, rapists, child molestors, abusive individuals, drug dealers, sex slave trade, all that doesn't make americans evil. It makes those people who commited the act evil and John Smith from god forgotten village in Texas doesn't have to appologise for it or justify his existence somehow. He is also not required to leave his family, his job, his life and go on a rampage across america catching all the killers and criminals. You can't blame the simple man for everything and you can't ask him to do everything.
Apply that to Muslims and you will see why Mohammad who sells newspapers 15 hours a day can't go buy a gun and hunt terrorists. That would create mayhem and chaos.

How many people know of certain infdividuals to be drug dealers, to beat their wives or something like that but never go to police to tell it? How many gang members are afraid to go to the police and sell out their leader? Does that make americans bad?

Life is neither simple nor perfect. The highest you should expect from others is what you are yourself. The highest you should expect from other country is to be like yours. By expecting others to be perfect you only sound like a hypocrite.

That being said, it is clear what should actually be the topic of such discussions: POLITICIANS and how they run the world. The organisation of legislative and executive branches in various systems, which ones let lying bastards go unpunished, which ones allow corruptions more then others, which ones create a better illusion of freedom, which are infiltrated by religious extremists who's actions are confined to borders of their own country and which extend beyond that (there is a HUGE difference between those two, a difference that goes unnoticed by many).
Then there is a question of CONSEQUENCES of trying to influence those regimes, successful and unsuccesful interventions and all that, the role of globalisation, money paths throughout the world, race for control of natural resources (you have to be pretty naive to think that these things have nothing to do with current wars and power struggles).

The anti-islamic sentiment comes from people who are not aware of the whole extent of this issue and who do not view it from a proper perspective. Many of them actually do not have their own opinion, they merely repeat what they've heard somewhere without bothering to check the facts.
Ignorance is an easy way out, it does not require thinking.

Of course there is that group of anti-islamics who are just plain evil and crazy.

I think that the ratio of ignorance/active brains on ATS roughly reflects that ratio in real world. As the ignorance in real world grows so does the number of anti-islamics on ATS.
One's greatest strength is one's greatest weakness, in this case: freedom of speech. By allowing people to talk you allow ignorant people to talk too. It cannot be avoided.

As a Muslim I made my peace with the existence of these fools. I reply with knowledge to their ignorant ramblings and thats about the extent of what I can do. Fighting with them is not very productive, as that "old" saying goes: "arguing with stupid people is pointless; they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience"


Personaly I think ATS is one of the best boards on the net and I think that the certain number of ignorant people is not sufficient enough to ruin the whole experience.


One has to be careful though, the enemy is sometimes subtle, sneaky and if you fall asleep you might wake up in ruins...



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Knights, where have you obtained this list, please give us the source !


Originally posted by Knights
Christian
Freedomites (1902-present) Active in Canada, notable for their longevity

This is what wiki has to say about them:


Some of the Freedomites (A very small minority) were notable for their arson campaigns, as a sign of their protest against materialistic life. Being pacifistic, they targeted belongings and other material posessions......
Both arson and bombing were used. Targets included the property of themselves and other Doukhbors to further exhibit their dislike of materialism




Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.

To classify this as an Christian group is rubbish, for they are not fighting for religion rather they are fighting for independence from democratic India. Another point to dwell on would be, why would it be about Christianity if the leader of India's majority party[Sonia Gandhi] is a christian ??? They are figting for independence rather than religion. Here is an insightfull article about the Nagaland rebels. They are currently on a ceasefire with the Indian Military.
What do the Nagas want


National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.

Again another minor rebel group fighting for independence from the Indian state. Though the aim here is to set up a christian fundamentalist state eventually there are many conflicting groups that have separate interests.
www.globalsecurity.org...


Lord's Resistance Army Christian/Pagan terrorist group

From what I have read about this terrorist group, they are fighting the Sudanese Islamic government rather than on some religous quest. A group having little to do with Christianity other than its name. They have even attacked Churches and priests.

www.globalsecurity.org...
in June 2003 the leader of the LRA, Joseph Kony, told his fighters to destroy Catholic missions, kill priests and missionaries, and beat up nuns.


[edit on 16-4-2006 by IAF101]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:22 PM
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Thanks for exposing the strawman arguments, there is nothing in either the Torah or NT that incites violence. I really can't say the same for the Qu'ran though. Jihad (whatever you think it is) is a sacrament in both the commentaries and the Quran itself.



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Knights
Muslim
SIMI (Student Islamic Movement of India) Islamic terrorist organization. Responsible for inciting violence in India.
Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
Is partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.
Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
Seeks to establish Islamist rule in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, Coptic Christians, tourists, Jews, and “morally offensive” buildings.
Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
Seeks to establish Islamist rule in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.
In recent years has lost influence as the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat gained power.
Hamas (founded 1987)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
In Arabic, "the foundation" or "the base."
Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hezbollah
Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain
Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
JKLF Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front - Pakistan and Kashmir
Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
(Jihad Rite) - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
Muslim Brotherhood - international
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
Kurdish-Hizbullah - Turkey
Hofstad Network - Netherlands
Hizb-ut-Tahrir


Al-aqsa martyrs brigade is not an islamic orginisation. Alot of people get confused and assume they are islamic but they are actually secular. The name al-aqsa comes from the Event that occured at al-aqsa to start the 2nd intafada.

and also those islamic groups that are listed the list actually names alot of groups but in actual fact alot of those groups are just 1 group al-queda but which has alot of "sub-groups" for al-qeada everytime they have a new group in a region they give it a new "name" but in actual fact they are just wings of al-qeda and not actually a completely different group. Alot of lists do this to make the islamic "terrorist" group list look bigger and make muslims look like they have an astronomically large list of terrorist orginisations.

Also hizb ut tahrir from what i know isnt actually a terrorist orginiation and have never been involved in any atatcks directly although they may have given vocal support but not much more.

also hezbollah is not considered terrorist orginisation by many countries in the world. Only a few countries call hezbollah a terrorist orginsation the majority don't recognise it as a terrorist orginsation and infact a legitimate freedom fighters they arnt even on the EU list of terrorist orginsation infact the only countries that lable hezbollah as a terrorist orginisations are those that are pro-israel like israel, america, canada, austraila and Britain.
Infact linking hezbollah to any terrorist acts is actually very hard all evidence against them is actually just opinion while they have never actually been charged or convicted of any terrorism. Alot of people make the mistake of assuming that the attacks against the marine barracks was a terrorist act infact it wasn't.

infact if you where to rename all the al-qeada sub-groups into al-qeda get rid of hizb ut tahrir ,hezbollah and al-aqsa martyr brigade the list wouldnt actually be that big.

NOTE : also some of the Kashmir groups are quite questionable as well.

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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woah woah, I didn't state the above as all fact.. just a mere cut and paste job.

Link

I didn't check each and every organisation, I just wrongly presumed all the information would be correct



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
So what are you saying? That moslems cant stop terrorism in their religion because its difficult ?
As you say, protests are not enough, then why havent the moslem community adopted a different strategy to deal with the crisis ? If they plan to build a nuclear bomb I'm sure they can counter fanatics and raving imams!


And Muslims have taken another strategy as I already posted, they are trying to prevent radicalism that will eventually lead to terrorism.


Originally posted by IAF101
These protestors protested against the Wests war on Iraq, not terrorism in Iraq. And these protests have had an enormous result in the West, with leaders from all allied nations being brought to task and the role of the West in Iraq being more deeply scrutinized. In some case nations have actually withdrawn, like the Italian contingent in Iraq. So you see, the protests have helped.


Enormous results? When the protests occured in 2003 it was against the war and it hardly made a dent. The invasion went ahead as planned and even after all these years even though so many don't support the war it's still going.


Originally posted by IAF101
How come christians havent had these notions or jews ? Why arent there christian terrorist organizations blowing crashing planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in the subways etc in Damascus, Riyadh, Tehran etc? Surely, a lot of Christians have died in acts of terrorism and still do today with carbombs, embassy attacks, TV beheadings etc. Arent there some christians angry with the "wrong-doing" they see being done against their people ?


Most of these conflicts happen to be occurring in the Middle-east hence the rise of Islamic terror.


Originally posted by IAF101
So your saying that its not their fault ? They just have to go blow themselves up in a crowd of civilians to vent their anger every time some palestinian dies ? Is it solely a moslems prerogative to get "angry" ?


Not at all, I'm just implying that the other side isn't innoncent in all of this and I'm sure your know this.


Originally posted by IAF101
You say that you cant control these terrorists elements and yet dont want to face criticism ? Do you see the irony here ?


I don't see how they can be controlled, what can be done is cutting their recruitement line by swaying young Muslims from joining their cause and this is already happening around the world. But this doesnt mean terrorism will just end.
It's not that simple.


Originally posted by IAF101
All you have said are petty excuses for the incompetence of the moslem community in stemming the growth of radical elements. You present excuses, rationalizations why you cannot preventing it, even going so far as to claim it as justified retaliation! Never owning up, standing up and accepting responsibility for the moslem communities failure to control its own religion is just a reflection of the state of the "pacifists" section in the moslem community. What I want to ask is, Is it indifference or is it just incompetence ?

You preach to be against terrorists yet make no attempt in stopping those who wish to cause terror or have failed miserably in preventing this, yet you claim that the aggreived communites should abstain from criticising you for your apathy and disdain towards the security of others ? Thats rediculous !!

As they say, put up or shut up !


You act as if I can actually do anything, I'm an ex-muslim and happen to live amongst a huge Muslim crowd here in Leicester and my entire family being Muslim and all I always try to seperate terrorism from Islam whenever I get the chance. There are no mosques here in Leicester where radicalism is preached and Muslims here just like everyone else are trying to live their lives. So tell me what are they meant to do besides set right those that are on the path to radicalism if they ever came accross any?

I am against terrorists and never claimed their acts were justified so stop trying to put words into my mouth.

First you blame the Muslims for not doing anything and then when shown how they do protest against terrorism and do try to prevent others from joining these radical Muslims it's suddenly not enough? Thats ridicolous for it's better than nothing at all!

What attempts would you like to see from 1.5billion Muslims?

You know what I would like to see from the West? Withdraw all their troops from the middle-east, stop funding these dictators such as the Saudi regime. End all interventions in middle-eastern countries and see what happens.. Let them rely on each other for a change.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by shire19]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip
We learn from history that we learn nothing from history... specially if we don't know history to begin with, in this case islamic extremism.
It didn't start with Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden, it started 60 years ago in Egypt. A lot of people don't know that and don't care that much. They don't know about Egypt's fight against these people (*gasp* like omg, it is true, there were people fighting terror way before Bush and rumsfeld). ......................................................

One has to be careful though, the enemy is sometimes subtle, sneaky and if you fall asleep you might wake up in ruins...



wow


You have voted paperclip for the Way Above Top Secret award.


you deffinently deserved that one.

thats exactly what people don't understand they assume these terrorist just woke up one morning and said "hey lets kill these infidels" and just went around bombing stuff.

brilliant post.



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
Knights, where have you obtained this list, please give us the source !


Originally posted by Knights
Christian
Freedomites (1902-present) Active in Canada, notable for their longevity

This is what wiki has to say about them:




the same could be said about alot of "islamic" groups out there. The people in kasmir are fighting for independance considering they never wante dto be under indian rule. And the same for chechnya they have been fighting for independance for over 400? years and they only became muslim about 100-200 years ago and they have been fighting before they where muslims and after they where muslims for independance from russia. same could be said about palestinians infact the secular arabs like the PLO, black september etc... started the freedom movements in palestine the muslim groups came after like hamas and islamic jihad who came in 1987? while the secular groups where there since the 1950's.

why do you have double standards why is it when christian groups kill fight etc... for independance then it has nothing to do with christianity yet if muslims fight for indepedance or end occupation then its the fault of muslims? Alot of conflicts that muslims are in are actually very old like chechnya and kashmir.

Mod Edit: removed Huge Quote


[edit on 4/16/06 by FredT]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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Hopefully, someday we'll all get over the religious bickering.

Bickering, to the extreme, I might add.
Then we can move on to only killing each other over resources, and politics.

Face it, the major religions have taken turns, over the centuries, in being mega-righteous, to the point where lives, and pieces our own human history have been destroyed. And it just repeats.



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by iqonx
also hezbollah is not considered terrorist orginisation by many countries in the world.

And so because many nations do not, that must imply that Hezbollah is not a "terrorist" organization, that Hezbollah has not been involved in "terrorist" operations, and that Hezbollah is not involved in terrorism at all?
Again, and so?




Originally posted by iqonx
...they arnt even on the EU list of terrorist orginsation

You talk in half-truths, iqonx.
Though the organization of Hezbollah may not be on the EU list as a "terrorist" organization, aspects of Hezbollah are:


The European Union has designated Hezbollah's so-called External Security Organization or international wing as "terrorist."


Furthermore:


On March 10 2005 the European Parliament voted overwhelmingly (473 in favor 33 against) on a resolution branding Hezbollah in whole as a terrorist organization. The resolution stated that the "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The EU has also decided to block Hezbollah's Al-Manar television from European satellites due to its anti-Semitic content.


Oh, and lets not forget the UN resolution concerning Hezbollah:


The United Nations has not included Hezbollah on its list of terrorist groups (which is just being drawn up). However it has called for the disbanding of Hezbollah's military wing in the UN Security Council Resolution 1559.

Quotes from: Hezbollah
And: EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group



Originally posted by iqonx
....infact the only countries that lable hezbollah as a terrorist orginisations are those that are pro-israel like israel, america, canada, austraila and Britain.

And for good reason.
Again, so?



Originally posted by iqonx
Infact linking hezbollah to any terrorist acts is actually very hard all evidence against them is actually just opinion while they have never actually been charged or convicted of any terrorism. Alot of people make the mistake of assuming that the attacks against the marine barracks was a terrorist act infact it wasn't.

Umm, no, it is not an 'assumption,' it is fact; the implications speak for themselves. Your simply trying to justify this "terrorist" organization and its existence.

Whats that again that I said previously in this topic about perception: "another man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter or martyr"?





seekerof

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

You talk in half-truths, iqonx.
Though the organization of Hezbollah may not be on the EU list as a "terrorist" organization, aspects of Hezbollah are:


The European Union has designated Hezbollah's so-called External Security Organization or international wing as "terrorist."


Furthermore:


On March 10 2005 the European Parliament voted overwhelmingly (473 in favor 33 against) on a resolution branding Hezbollah in whole as a terrorist organization. The resolution stated that the "Parliament considers that clear evidence exists of terrorist activities by Hezbollah. The (EU) Council should take all necessary steps to curtail them." The EU has also decided to block Hezbollah's Al-Manar television from European satellites due to its anti-Semitic content.


Oh, and lets not forget the UN resolution concerning Hezbollah:


The United Nations has not included Hezbollah on its list of terrorist groups (which is just being drawn up). However it has called for the disbanding of Hezbollah's military wing in the UN Security Council Resolution 1559.

Quotes from: Hezbollah
And: EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group


so what if a part of them is? hezbollah the orginisation is not a on the list of terrorist orginisations :



news.bbc.co.uk...

Thursday, 10 March, 2005

European Union lawmakers issued their strongest condemnation of the group on Thursday, but stopped short of seeking its addition to the EU's list of terrorist groups.



thats all there is too it. they are not on the list. Even the "evidence" which "supports" there link to "terrorist" activity is quite questionable. The main driving force which has been trying to get them on the list has not been the "evidence" but has been pressure from america and israel and pro-israeli supporters while neutral countries have been against putting them on the list.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by iqonx]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Much like the anti-Americanism that runs rampant on this board, as well?

There are no more Islamic Injustices on this board as their are anti-Zionists, racists, anti-French, anti-American, etc., etc. injustices.

Seems to me its a matter of political correctness and perspective...all along tha same lines as "another man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter or martyr," etc.

seekerof

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Seekerof]


An eye for an eye type attitude there Seekerof, I thought better of you.

There are indeed several problems on ATS at the moment, and the only way to fix these problems is to tackle them one issue at a time. Feel free to start a post about the other anti-whatever's. This post directly calls out the religious slant that ATS has come accustomed to. And it's an attempt to bring an eye opener to some members here.

Please keep this on topic, I noticed that throughout page 3 we're starting to get off topic and concentrating on irrelevant facts. This is about anti-islamic lean on ATS and how we can better deal (or control) it.



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by iqonx


news.bbc.co.uk...

Thursday, 10 March, 2005

European Union lawmakers issued their strongest condemnation of the group on Thursday, but stopped short of seeking its addition to the EU's list of terrorist groups.


thats all there is too it. they are not on the list.

Well, lets discover why the EU has not put them on that so-called "list," iqonx, shall we?


So far, France, Spain, and Britain have been reluctant to include Hizbollah on the list, fearing that such a move would further damage the prospects for Middle East peace talks.
EU lawmakers label Hizbollah 'terrorist’ group

So, Hezbollah has not been listed as a "terrorist" organization because of "fear"?
The EU Parliament has pretty much branded Hezbollah as a "terrorist" organization, but to you, because Hezbollah is not on the black "list," then they are not a "terrorist" organization, huh? Hardly, and 'a typical' of European political correct pacifism thinking. Chamberlain comes to mind here.





Even the "evidence" which "supports" there link to "terrorist" activity is quite questionable.

You keep pointing to evidences as being questionable, and doing so with no counterfactual evidences on your own. Perception again: "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter or martyr"?





The main driving force which has been trying to get them on the list has not been the "evidence" but has been pressure from america and israel and pro-israeli supporters while neutral countries have been against putting them on the list.

Again, a half-truth. There is no doubt that the countries that have listed Hezbollah are trying to press the EU to list them as a "terrorist" organization, but there is no doubt in mind that the EU is well aware of Hezbollah's (or branches thereof) terrorist activities and involvements. The issue here is that you simply continue to point out only the 'pressure' aspect and not what the EU has found out on its own concerning evidences and proofs of Hezbollah's (or factions thereof) terrorist activities. Ironic, huh?






seekerof

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by QuietSoul
An eye for an eye type attitude there Seekerof, I thought better of you.

Are you saying that the proverb is incorrect or is that I brought it up within this topic that makes it wrong? Your deflecting from the truth of what I have mentioned.




There are indeed several problems on ATS at the moment, and the only way to fix these problems is to tackle them one issue at a time.

Actually you can address them all by embracing the "Deny Ignorance" motto, or maybe even the mantra of "Deny Hate" or "Embrace Tolerance" movements within ATS.





Feel free to start a post about the other anti-whatever's. This post directly calls out the religious slant that ATS has come accustomed to. And it's an attempt to bring an eye opener to some members here.

No, your topic works just fine in pointing out the hypocrisy of this so-called problem within ATS. You grab at one straw as the problem, while simply continuing to ignore the other problems directly associated with the one that you are covering with this topic. They go hand-in-hand, mate. You want the Islamic Injustices to stop, then stop the anti-American, the anti-Zionist, and the anti-whatever's rhetoric that produces those asserted Islamic Injustices. It is all cause and effect here--and to fix one, it requires the fixing of the others at the same time. What'cha think?








seekerof



posted on Apr, 16 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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www.thereligionofpeace.com... is a great place to look up many of the daily attacks done by muslims. Their list goes all the way back to 9/12/01.

Monthly Jihad Report
(March, 2006) Jihad Attacks: 244

Dead Bodies: 1280

Critically Injured: 1585

As stated over 1200 killed in the month of March by a group of people that are continually called Religion of Peace, even by president Bush. Also as said before and on their website that the totals are not a complete total for some attacks are not reported for a variety of reasons.

Do I think all muslims are violent? No but I do wonder how many who aren't violent support the ones who are. What I do wonder though is why so many who claim that religion as their own turn to violence. Why are so many who follow that religion so thin skinned to the point of killing people over a cartoon? I do think if you ask most any muslim if they believe the earth has to be one under islam they will say yes. That statement alone makes peaceful coexistence very diffuclult.



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