Oh yeah!!Chalk one up for the good guys!!

This is quite a significant victory for those on the side of freedom.
"THE PENTAGON office that was developing a vast computerized terrorism surveillance system would be closed and no money could be spent to use those high-tech spying tools against Americans on U.S. soil, House and Senate negotiators have agreed.

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., who has battled the program for months, hailed the result Wednesday. �Americans on American soil are not going to be targets of TIA surveillance that would have violated their privacy and civil liberties,� Wyden said in an interview.
�The original Poindexter program would have been the biggest surveillance program in the history of the United States,� he added. �Now the lights have gone out on the program conceived by John Poindexter.� He said the agreement would allow foreign intelligence gathering on terrorism �without cannibalizing the civil liberties of Americans.�
www.refuseandresist.org...

Now if we can only keep Matrix from replacing it! It's state level equivalent is as, if not more, scary than the IAO was.

"Matrix links up private data Social Security numbers, driver's license fingerprints would be part of crime database...The detail in the data is astounding: Past addresses and telephone numbers. Neighbors' addresses and telephone numbers. The make, model and color of registered cars. Business associates. Speeding tickets. Arrests. Marriages and divorces. Names and addresses of family members. Driver's license photos. Social Security numbers and birth dates. Credit information. And all a click away"
www.refuseandresist.org...


[Edited on 12-10-2003 by jezebel]

Great find!


I guess USA isn't going to turn into East Germany...yet.

It is really sad that people even think this is required, doesn't anyone remember this stuff?

They will slowly take and take until nothing is left, and then they will find a way to tax nothing and that is when people will wake up. I doubt it though, people are lazy and content, and stuck in the same dread mind frame. Nothing I can ever do will make a difference, why try....


That one always got me, "why try", WTF kind of question is that?!

Better one is WHY THE HELL NOT! Have anything better to do, than make sure the future for our offspring is better than we had. Personally I beleive people ought to STOP and consider the world population and global society as a whole. Because what we pollute over here in the USA causes damage to places like Australia and the poles, no not the Polish poles the earth ones. You dorks!

Oh yeah, sorry heres your thread back.

Seriously people, "we" that means me and everyone of you supposed 2000+ members, can make the difference.

It is said that every person is only five or three people from knowing the rest of the people on this world. Depending on what circles you hng out with.
So we have lets say, 1/64 of the total members who are active, actually go out and convince their friends and families to speak out and rally for a just and agreable cause. Shouldn't 30 some odd people who participate here spread the same message. That's ten groups, of three people for ten times faster person to person world wide. And then there is the uncountable lurkers/watchers, who just read and don't care cause this is just another one of "those" sites.

Only they don't realize that with the potential numbers of ATSs membership could be a starting point for a political party! HELLO! Whats it going to take?! Neon blimps the size of Luna to get people to see...

Even then I don't think anyone would notice let alone care...

*grumbles off*

grrr...nwo...darpa...nato...un...scum....

*grumble grumble*

Damn straight Advisor. Let me say that activism, even the very limited passive kind, is the most effective way to "do something" about every injustice you read about...

It is said that every person is only five or three people from knowing the rest of the people on this world. Depending on what circles you hng out with.
So we have lets say, 1/64 of the total members who are active, actually go out and convince their friends and families to speak out and rally for a just and agreable cause. Shouldn't 30 some odd people who participate here spread the same message. That's ten groups, of three people for ten times faster person to person world wide. And then there is the uncountable lurkers/watchers, who just read and don't care cause this is just another one of "those" sites.

I agree, Advisor. mOjOm and I have been trying for a long-time now, to impress upon his mom, sister, brother-in-law, and our friends the importance of the things that are going on right now. What's scary is that, with all of the information we have given them, and the hours and hours we have spent talking to them about this, NONE of them are willing to risk their comfort to maintain their freedom. We get comments like, "Yeah, but it's better to be on the side of the many, then risk persecution with those who protest." or "I couldn't live without all of the things I've gotten used to. Besides I'll be dead by the time it would happen to me." or "That'll never happen. Why would someone want to take away our freedom?" or my favorite, a conversation with my own mother, which went something like this,

Mom: "Why have you become such a cynic?"

Me: "I'm not a cynic, I'm a realist. Once you see things for what they are, you can't really pretend like you never saw them."

Mom: "Why not? I've been doing it for years."

Needless to say, I wanted to scream when I heard this!
I'm starting to think that it's impossible to wake people up. All of our family members think we've lost it. Alas, neither of us have it in us to stop trying. Hopefully, one day someone will listen.

It's the hum of the system that keeps them comfortable and sleeping. In order to wake anyone up you would have to stop the hum. How do you stop the hum from any mechanical system?

Enough said, I know just the wrench...


We can make a change, so long as those willing to go forth stay together. Nothing can stop us.

Look for my next post;

ATSers of the world UNITE!