POLITICS: New law would outlaw anyone revealing US eavesdropping programs

You got any facts to back anything that you said Devins?

Or is it just your opinion? Have you made yourself aware of what the plan really says or are you merely following the party line and agreeing with the media without knowing what you are saying?

I think your comments did nothing to contribute to the discussion, you merely gave your biased opinion, and that's the end of the story according to you.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

You, ok, I didn't say Bush actually got drunk again and killed a Hooker, it was a hypthetical situation. But, like the illegal wiretappings, if he stamps classified on the Hookers body, does that mean he no longer killed her? He no longer killed her, never committed a crime, because, like the illegal wiretappings, he stamped it classified?

ok, like read the link about what this plan is and what it is not and see what it said about being legal or illegal.

I can start claming, "you are an illegal alien", but not present any proof of this claim, I could pay a newspaper to run a story that says "DevinS is an illegal alien" yet not put any facts to back this statement.

Why is it that none of you is questioning that these news articles never give links to the papers that they talk about? Because unless people have a mind of their own, some media outlets know that there are people who will believe anything the media says without questioning what is being said, whether it is true or not. Some of you keep saying this, but you don't follow your own advice.

Read what the links say about the plan, read what Congress has been discussing about this issue, find out on your own what the unbiased sources are saying about this, and for goodness sake, don't believe everything a newspaper claims just because it is written. Anyone can make claims in newspapers just to use them as political tools.


[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

first off no i dont have any agents at my doors, why? because i dont pose enough threat. they allow me to state my opinion because it doesnt matter to them, it means nothing. now if i was some multi millionaire who was organizing protests of the corruption of government officials and had a significant voice....well lets just say i wouldnt be around long. but even right now, im not voicing this opinion by freedom of speech...im voicing it because they are allowing me to. at any time they could bust down my door shouting 'terrorist terrorist' if i started having influence or they needed to start getting rid of people who arent hooked on MTV and mcdonalds.

second off i know exactly what im talkin about, you just seem to have a hard time understanding that if people were truely responsible for their actions and used logic that we wouldnt need such rules. but you dont want to see that, you want to believe that all people will be unrulely and they need rules to keep them in line, thats freedom? a true society will be at peace with one another inside the society, and will act based on the best of the society. otherwise its not really a society of equals or free peoples.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by grimreaper797]

Really?....what is Kerry doing these days?, or any of the rich Democratic folk who have been also making claims like this?....

Have you ever heard the purported claims that some famous judge or another mentioned the word dictatorship in a purported statement of hers?.... Has she dissapeared yet?

Making up claims grimreaper does not in any way corroborate your statements, in case you didn't know....



[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

no she hasnt disappeared but she didnt do much now did she? and much wasnt started because of that was there? when a person says things that get the average working class citizen following them and saying "what should we do?" in the masses, watch how quickly he/she will be arrested or simply disappear.

tell me is this judge or these democrats making large protests like i was talking about? no? i didnt think so, next time read my whole paragraph instead of skimming through it and you wont look so dumb when you say things that arent in response to what i said. you simply picked out the part about voicing their opinion but left out the part where i said organizing protests and actually getting people to do something.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
..................
tell me is this judge or these democrats making large protests like i was talking about? no? i didnt think so, next time read my whole paragraph instead of skimming through it and you wont look so dumb when you say things that arent in response to what i said. you simply picked out the part about voicing their opinion but left out the part where i said organizing protests and actually getting people to do something.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by grimreaper797]

Whenever you grow up and stop making belittling comments, then we can continue to discuss this issue, for now I will concentrate on discussing this with people who have already grown up and don't have to resort to ridiculous name calling thinking this tactic will back up their statements.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
first off no i dont have any agents at my doors, why? because i dont pose enough threat. they allow me to state my opinion because it doesnt matter to them, it means nothing. now if i was some multi millionaire who was organizing protests of the corruption of government officials and had a significant voice....well lets just say i wouldnt be around long. but even right now, im not voicing this opinion by freedom of speech...im voicing it because they are allowing me to. at any time they could bust down my door shouting 'terrorist terrorist' if i started having influence or they needed to start getting rid of people who arent hooked on MTV and mcdonalds.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by grimreaper797]

You got my last way above vote, Grimreper you understand exactly what is going on in our country and what is all about when it comes to the rights given to us by our government under the illusion of freedom of speech.


Many fail to see that we the people are not a treat as long as we are complaining individually, but make a group and the law steps in to control to what extend we used our freedom of speech.

Complain publicly about the government loud enough and you will be pick up and arrested.

Your private property can be seized and you will be put on gag order like the government seems to want to do with the press about the eavesdropping programs.

What many fail to see is that this is not limited to the press finding about national security issues but also the wrong doings of the government itself when it comes to abuses against citizens rights.

Control of the media will ensure that the people will not get to know what the government is doing behind people's back.

To make it better information is classified so nobody will ever get to see what is all about.

DevinS is trying to make a point to what restriction to information is all about how easily the government can keep it from ever been divulge.

Keep the people believing that they have the freedom to do anything they want but only when they are not loud enough or great enough in numbers to become a national treat to the government.

Yes freedom in our country is nothing but an illusion step out on the Governments toe and you see how fast you get silenced.

We can come to ATS and talk about the rights or wrongs of the government but the only reason we are allowed to doing this is because this site is deemed by the government as a conspiracy site.

No treat just yet.

People can come here and vent their frustrations and have many to refute and debate against, that is good as long as we are in the boards sitting at home and not in the streets talking like we do here is not treat to the government.

It is easier to deem post as rant and opinions than to take a hard look at what many are trying to said here.

pity.




[edit on 16-3-2006 by marg6043]

Thanks marg, sadly I am out of the vote things for you.

I wonder what Mua.. whatever name is, would feel if he had documents proving that Aliens were real, a UFO was at Area 51, we are currently using alien technology, like fiber optics and such, but they were labelled classified. Would he be so high and mighty as to not go to the media with it? To prove that Aliens exist, we have been using their technology after dissecting it to figure out how it works, and that the government has been working with them for nearly 60 years, but not because the folder they came in were labelled classified.

Or if documents came out proving 9/11 was staged by Bush&Co, should they not be released because they have classified stamped on them? To prove that 3,000+ people were killed for no other reason then to start a war and that all the deaths followed by it, our troops, our reporters, and our civillians beheaded, were for a lie, but not to because the folder is stamped classified, that is treason!

Muaddib, I'm not sure that you understand how the press is supposed to work in this country. In fact, IMO, you seem to be lacking the basic knowledge that every kid learns in school (or at least used to) about the Constitution and how the press is supposed to work. The Founding Fathers knew that the key to continuing democracy was free speech and that the media, being the information source, must have complete freedom of speech in order to give us, the citizens, the truth. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right of all Americans. This law directly forbids the press from printing the truth.
That is absolutely and directly unconstitutional.
The Constitution gives us the right to be free from government surveillance unless they have probable cause
It has now come out that the NSA, together with AT&T, has been spying on every single phone call any American makes. We now have the largest data base anywhere because of it. You cannot tell me that there is any probably cause to spy on the average American, most of whom are simply strugglinlg to stay afloat, not engage in terrorist activity.
If we don't have free press and freedom from surveillance, we don't have true freedom.
Muaddib, can you not see that our Constitutional rights are being eroded by laws such as this? You ask what rights we've lost, well, let's see...

-repeal of Habeus Corpus, the central law to any free society.

-surveillance of every single person in America, that was previously and Constitutionally restricted to persons with probable cause for surveillance

-laws have been changed to allow FBI, police and other investigative agencies to enter your home when you aren't there, search through all your papers and personal effects and NEVER TELL YOU about it. They have been doing this to completely innocent people. THis is unprecedented and a direct violation of the Bill of Rights.

There are many, many other losses, but these 3 are very major and only a start.
Muaddib, I have to agree that your veiws do not show that you've done much research and that they are downright un-American, they lean towards fascism.
I'm not meaning to insult you, but to deny ignorance.