What if this is all there is....??!

This is all there is??

If I didn't look through a microscope then how would I know that bacteria existed?

If I didn't look through a telescope then how would I know that pluto existed?

What kind of logic is this; something that my senses does not immediately detect does not exist.

it is easy to see the appeal in that statement in terms of practicality but not in terms of logic or reason since it is obviously limiting.

A scientist is only as good as the instruments at their disposal or their ability to use them, we are only able to perceive to the extent our minds are open and depending on how good our scientists are.

That is why proof matters but absence of proof does not mean that something does not exist.

Originally posted by dgtempe

Originally posted by Saltman


Does the concept of non-existence terrify you? Are you so attached to your self that you can't imagine a universe without you in it?

I cant beleive that i was put on this earth just to make a few laugh, and something so insignificant as giving my neighbor an egg or a cup of sugar.
I gave birth to two sons...there's a reason to be here. What about those who never had children and never wanted any?

Despite my login id and avatar, I am a fit woman of childbearing age. I knew early on that I did not want to give birth, nor raise a child. I can't believe that I was put on this earth just to breed workers for the hive, or to keep the world populated.

If I do nothing else but make people laugh, lend neighbors groceries or a helping hand, I'll feel good about myself upon my death. If being generous and following my dream is all there is, I think I'm getting it right.

I believe too much emphasis in an afterlife pre-empts for 'some' people their ability to live within the moment or derive enough life satisfaction from who they are and what they have to offer. As is said in sports quite often "leave it all on the field". This life is about passion, relish it. I 'm relatively certain passion won't be present in an afterlife.imho!

Hmmmm... and you know this because you died and came back to life right ???

Nope. All I can go by is what I've experienced and what other people tell me. And neither of those things are very reliable, now, are they?

I feel like I'm on pretty solid ground when I say that I exist. Probably. I might be a figment of somebody else's imagination, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter. Such is what "reality" is. Cognito ergo sum, right? You gotta start somewhere.

As for other realms of reality, though, I don't think I'm in a position to say they exist. I've heard some fanciful stories and have not been impressed. I've been knocked unconscious, accidentally and on purpose (for surgery), and time and reality passed me by like it was nothing. I don't imagine things will be much different when I die, other than that the time I'll be out will be infinite, rather than just a couple of hours. Not that I'll be able to tell the difference, since an hour or an instant are the same when you're unconscious (or dead, probably).

But, as I said, if you have something besides your "gut feeling," or some weird stories told by other people, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. I'm keeping my mind open, but you need to have some pretty good evidence and proof to convince me there's something else going on. Everything I've seen or heard so far leads me to believe that this is all there is.

There's a reason they call it "faith," you know. It's because there ain't no proof. Because if there was, somebody probably would have come up with it by now.

Originally posted by Enkidu

Hmmmm... and you know this because you died and came back to life right ???

Nope. All I can go by is what I've experienced and what other people tell me. And neither of those things are very reliable, now, are they?

I feel like I'm on pretty solid ground when I say that I exist. Probably. I might be a figment of somebody else's imagination, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter. ....

and basically...you may disagree with "faith" but you can't disprove it... so isnt it wrong of you to tell someone there is nothing after death, when you really can't proove it can you?

It would be better if you said " I don't believe there is a fter life"...and leav it at that... but to CLAIM ther isnt an after-life without beeing able to proove it, doesnt make much sense

That is why proof matters but absence of proof does not mean that something does not exist.

Neither you or I can prove a negative. I can't say for absolutely certain that an afterlife does not exist. I agree with that.

But if we're going to try and use logic here, how logical is it to believe in something that has no proof at all? At least I can be reasonably sure I currently exist right now. But what reason would I have to extend that into believing something of which I have no proof? How is it possible for me to infer a continued existence, given the lack of undeniable evidence?

That's the difference. Absence of proof does not mean that something does not exist, but it's no proof that something DOES exist, either. I can't prove that monkeys will not fly out of your butt. However, if you'd like to convince me that monkeys have, indeed, flown out of your butt, I'm willing to look at any available evidence in support of that contention. Until then, however, I respectfully deny the existence of flying butt monkeys.

Originally posted by Enkidu
I respectfully deny the existence of flying butt monkeys.

but there are flying monkeys...lol..they fly from tree to tree and the scientist call them flying monkesy ..

I get your point... but it is also true that there are many more ppl with flat line experiences than not... so that may be a hint ?

but it is also true that there are many more ppl with flat line experiences than not

Yeah, but for how long? An EEG really isn't capable of reading really faint residual neural activity. Give me a flatliner, run a CAT scan or MRI to ensure no brain activity, stick them in the refrigerator for a week, then drag them back. See what they have to say.

In the horror movies, they usually go on killing sprees.

Yes, this is not a discussion about if there IS or ISN'T an after-life. You believe what you choose to believe, and you disbelieve what you choose to disbelieve. Both of these can be based on faith or on fact.

I heard somewhere that "The main differences between humans and other animals is that humans can't imagine a world without them, whilst animals can't imagine a world with them."

It's probably rather apt. We recognize our world, our surroundings, and we drive to do better than what we are. Our lives are based around prooving to ourselves that we're worth a damn. In a world without an afterlife - and if we KNEW there wasn't an afterlife - then it suddenly becomes a very different thing to prove to YOURSELF who you are. Suddenly it's no longer who you are, but what you do or have done. Hell and heaven are now on earth, and both are temporary.

And in both cases, you will be constrained by your past. Now your mistakes, your failures, and your poor actions will be with you for your entire existance.

But it also brings MORALITY into question. If there is was no afterlife, and we judge people by what they do, then are we not forced into the end result of "the ends justify the means"? For if you are only what other people are told of you, then if they are told lies, and hidden from the truth, then who you actually are is lost.

Does God deliver justice? I don't think so - I believe that we are given absolution, not from God, but from ourselves and others. Our failures and mistakes and sins are washed away. We become loved - and not in the terms of sex or passion... but the kind of love you have for someone when you tell a horrible act or secret, and you cry out for forgiveness from them, and they accept and hold you dearly close telling you that it's alright. If God/Jesus/Allah/Brahma/whatever is purely loving, then that's what absolution is - no matter who you are. It's that kind of love and acceptance that we search for to fill the holes that are in ourselves. Those empty spaces wanting to be loved, we want to fill with people not who will bear children, or provide for us, or will do whatever we please - but we want to fill it with people who will utterly and completely accept us for who we are.

Thinking about it, it's a powerful moment when you realize someone loves you that much.

But I digress, summary;

We can't imagine a world without us - and therefore, it's extremely difficult to think of a universe without an afterlife. It's like trying to imagine "what's outside the universe"... we simply can't fully comprehend the complete nothingness that there isn't.

Originally posted by Enkidu
how long? An EEG really isn't capable of reading really faint residual neural activity. Give me a flatliner, run a CAT scan or MRI to ensure no brain activity, stick them in the refrigerator for a week, then drag them back. See what they have to say.

... true ... but we really can't say YES or NO untill we get someone back after a week in the freezer.

In the horror movies, they usually go on killing sprees.

Thats cause their not suppose to be back...

Silly people and there what ifs. The fact of the matter is this, if you were a bad person in life, and don't believe in Christ, than you better hope to all eternity that all there is when you die is kaput, GAME OVER! and nothing else. Fortunately for those of us who do believe Christ is coming back to save His people and establish His kingdom we have much to look forward to. So regardless of what you truly believe in, those of us who do believe, are going to die without fear and happy to be free , because even if there was nothing afterwards than you would never know anyways

If this is all there is, then live Life to the Best and Fullest.
If there is an "afterlife", then live Life to the Best and Fullest, as commanded by religions.
Yes, we are God (Spirit) as Yarium says. We are "made in his image" Hmmm, like God is a batch of yeast dough, and we are little bits taken off to be our own little bits of rising dough. "What you do for the least, you do for me" See the face of God in others, and let them know by your Life how wonderful they are and to never forget it. Some will remember, some will not--take no offense.

I do not exist, therefore I am.

Well as many other people have said already in some shape and form, enjoy today. Yes we cant disprove God, but we cant prove God either. Religion is a psuedo-science, it doesnt adhere to be able to be proven false, so their is no use in trying to prove that God is false.

All we do know exists is our lives, now we cant prove either that anything acturly exists in the material world either but i will go out on a limb and say that hey if it doesnt exist, its a dam good trick. So wether it exists or not isnt the problem, we can interact with the material enviroment.
My point is that all you really do have for sure is your life, that is fact.
So enjoy this life to the best of your abilities, and try to achieve to leave your mark on this plane of existence.

I would not worry yourself with much else than that, as it just complicates your life and you can go on huge trains of thoughts that will take years and years but when you get to the end, you will realize it was a dead end.

Its strange to think about. Try to think of what it would be like to not exist. To have your conciousness dissappear. It is a thought that the mind literally cannot comprehend. I mean, you are you, so how can "you" just dissappear? If all we are is energy inside a body, then the law of conservation of energy alone states that we can never be gone. Ponder that.

Okay, let me see if I got this straight. If I die and find out there's nothing there...I should be...what...pissed? If there's nothing for me after I die (be it Heaven OR Hell) who cares?? Certainly not me, having no capacity to care one way or the other after death! Also, it doesn't much matter WHAT kind of life you lead...you couldn't appreciate or regret it after you're gone anyway.

If on the other hand, there IS a Heaven OR Hell then it very much DOES matter how you live your life here.

I for one, have every bit of faith in the afterlife, which I'm sure is appreciated by every parent I encounter, since I know better than to empty any ammo magazines into a High School Cafeteria. (By the way, the Church didn't have to teach me that. Some things ya just know.)


[edit on 9-3-2006 by Toelint]

"My troubles are many, they're as deep as a well,
I can swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell."
Blood Sweat Tears and Peter Paul Mary

The meaning of Life is the meaning you give it.

Keep on Evolving!

like the song says, id live everyday like i was dying

The complexity of reality itself and how it came to exist, not to mention the incomprehensible size of the universe and the amount of stuff in it, is compelling enough for me to believe that there must be more to existence than just the current lives we live.

Here's a question that hurts my head:
"Where did this, the reality we live in, the matter, the energy, the laws of physics, the way things act, behave, obey a set of given rules come from?"

"Why is this here? How is this here? Who put it there?"

Originally posted by DYepes
Silly people and there what ifs. The fact of the matter is this, if you were a bad person in life, and don't believe in Christ, than you better hope to all eternity that all there is when you die is kaput, GAME OVER! and nothing else. Fortunately for those of us who do believe Christ is coming back to save His people and establish His kingdom we have much to look forward to. So regardless of what you truly believe in, those of us who do believe, are going to die without fear and happy to be free , because even if there was nothing afterwards than you would never know anyways

you know ...that spirit of condemnation is exactly what Jesus spoke against ... but i guess you are "so guaranteed Heaven" you dont need to worry right ?