Jewish Population

Why is it that the international Jewish population doesn't riot in the streets when they are portrayed very negatively in Mulim press? It seems to me the Jewish population is far to busy succeeding in business, medicine, law, science etc to waste their time over the publishing of anti-semitic cartoons. As a culture the Jewish population has far exceeded the achievments of Muslims, and I am a Christian. Jews dont resort to terrorism and murder of inicent civillians to achieve satisfaction.

"Jews dont resort to terrorism and murder of inicent civillians to achieve satisfaction"

I'm sure there are many Palestinians who would disagree with that statement

Im talking about the Jewish masses all around the world, the masses are generally a very peaceful, hardworking, smart demographic.

Can someone answer that question, Hitler hated the Jews but he was mentally ill.

Originally posted by beaburt
"Jews dont resort to terrorism and murder of inicent civillians to achieve satisfaction"

I am a Jew and an Israeli citizen; and you can believe me, that "Jews are like everybody else, maybe even a bit more so".

We have criminals like every other nation / or religious group

- and yes, we also have terror groups:

for instance the outlawed jewish terror group Kach /Kahane chai

Originally posted by beaburt

the Jewish masses all around the world

wow.
Sounds as if we are very much.

According to estimates published by the United States Census Bureau, the world population in June 2005 was ~6,450,000,000. (as far as I know, the followers of Islam are ~1,5 billion).

Jews on this earth: ~14 million.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by Riwka]

dah! Muslims hate Jews because Israel is a disgusting racist state where they keep Arabs sealed up in bantustans..Israel is even more racist that Aphartied S. Africa, it makes the deep south in the US circa 1950s look like disneyland..and everyone hates Jews because they are allowed to get away with oppresive tactics that no other people are allowed to get away with, particularly ethnic cleansing and segregation..not to mention Jews feel that they are the "chosen people", in other words they think they're better than everyone else and everyone exists to serve them..some Americans are becoming like that too so the hate has spread to the Americans..and Muslims hate the 'business as usual' mentyality of the west when it concerns on-going oppresion in Palestine & Iraq.

..not saying all Jews are like that, certainly their are pacifist Jewish groups & anti-zionist jews..but mainstream judiaism is mostly racist ..

also the Jewish population the the US & Europe has significantly decreased because many Jews have disaccociated themselves with Judiasm and now just consider themselves something else, christian or agnostic..

[edit on 19-2-2006 by jajabinks]

[edit on 19-2-2006 by jajabinks]

The false and unfounded portrayal of Israel as an "apartheid state" is certainly not new...

But let's have a look into that issue:

1. Goal of Separation
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     The explicit goal of bantustans was the elimination of rights of the majority South African black population, to ensure white hegemony
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     The explicit goal of the security fence is preventing surreptitious terrorist entry to Israel, which has caused the murder of hundreds of Israeli civilians
     
   
   
   
2. Citizenship
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     A central goal of official apartheid "separate development" was to strip black South Africans of their citizenship.
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     West Bank Palestinians were never citizens of Israel.
   
   
   
3. Forced transfer
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     Between 1950 and 1986, about 1.5 million Africans were forcibly removed from "white" cities to rural reservations
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     The security fence causes no transfer of population.
   
   
   
4. Opposition to nation
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     South African blacks, cordoned into bantustans, did not seek the destruction of South Africa, but rather the removal of the apartheid regime.
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     The majority of Palestinians in the territories dispute Israels very right to exist; this has bred terror, and ultimately, the need for the fence
   
   
   
5. Permanence
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     South African bantustans were an effort to force a permanent international status on lands, and the black population living there.
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     The security fence is a temporary defensive measure, not a border; inconveniences caused by the fence are reversible.
   
   
   
6. Colonialism
   
   
   • Apartheid South Africa:
     
     South African "separate development" was an outgrowth of imperialist, colonial policy
     
     
   • Israels Security Fence:
     
     Israel is "colonial"neither with regard to the source of its population (mostly refugees), nor their deep historical relationship to the land.
   
   
   
   

   
   Originally posted by jajabinks
   
   ..but mainstream judiaism is mostly racist ..
   
   

   
   
   would you please provide any proof for your claim?
   
   [edit on 19-2-2006 by Riwka]

Janabinks,
You seem to be suffering from a critical case of being disconnected from reality. Let me address your arguement point by point:

Originally posted by jajabinks
dah! Muslims hate Jews because Israel is a disgusting racist state where they keep Arabs sealed up in bantustans..

What Arabs are you referring to? There seems to be a misconception of how Arabs are treated in Israel and, for that matter, Palestinians too. This comes mostly from propaganda lies of Arab countries who want Israel demolished and replaced with (but of course) a Muslim Arab state.
Back to the issue - Israeli Arabs (those who chose to become citizens) have full rights as Jewish citizens with the exception of military service (a note of correction: DRUZE and Beduins can serve in the army).
A note that Arabs bring up is that their municipalities receive less funds then some Jewish mnuicipalities - I have never looked into this so I cannot confirm or dispute this.
I work with an Arab in my workplace and moreover I have Arab family members (my mother's aunt married an Israeli-Arab and converted to Islam). We meet on occasion in family get togethers, they were at my wedding and we were greeted in their house on occassions. On a survey in Israel regarding the upcoming elections it was uncovered that 50% of Israeli Arabs will vote for Zionist political factions unaffiliated with Arab parties. Why is that???
Palestinians are Arabs are not Israeli, have their own govenment and are sovereign under Hamas rule. They are enemies of the state and people of Israel by their unending terror campaigns and strategic alliances with enemies of the state. Regardless Israel allows Palestinians to work in Israel (for humanitarian reasons), Palestinian territory is supplied with water and electricity from Israel and are provided with medical assistance in Israel. Of course not all Palestinians wish for Israel's destruction but there are a sufficient amount. As a result Israel, for defensive reasons MUST restrict Palestinian movement, set up road-blocks and place their terror chiefs and troublesome villages under siege. At times of quiet, these precautions were not necessary.

Israel is even more racist that Aphartied S. Africa, it makes the deep south in the US circa 1950s look like disneyland..and everyone hates Jews because they are allowed to get away with oppresive tactics that no other people are allowed to get away with, particularly ethnic cleansing and segregation..not to mention Jews feel that they are the "chosen people", in other words they think they're better than everyone else and everyone exists to serve them..some Americans are becoming like that too so the hate has spread to the Americans..and Muslims hate the 'business as usual' mentyality of the west when it concerns on-going oppresion in Palestine & Iraq.

These are all tired rhetoric with no basis in reality. South Africa did not give blacks citizen rights while Israel gives Israeli Arab equal rights. Israeli Arabs do not ride in the back of the bus like in deep south circa 1950s and therefore your banter is nothing more than slander.
Israel does against the Palestinians only what is necessary for self-defence. Of couse there are those individuals who engage in illegal activities against Palestinians who are tried and sentenced something the Palestinians do no t do. Palestinian terrorists are hailed heroes and Martyrs while Israelis who commit crimes against Palestinians or Arabs end up dead or in jail.

..not saying all Jews are like that, certainly their are pacifist Jewish groups & anti-zionist jews..but mainstream judiaism is mostly racist ..

This statement just shows who is really a racist. If Judaism is racist what would you call Islam with their Dhimmi laws?
Israel worked very hard to bring black Jews from Ethiopia to Israel - not an act of a racist state. Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews - Again not an act of a racist state.
Israel's policy on Palestinian aggression is perceived by bigots and Jew haters as racist but they are too blind or too twisted to admit that if any other country with the security problems Israel has would have done the same. Arab and Muslim countries would have done worse!

Let's be careful here.
If the discussion goes off in an unaacceptable manner, it will be closed or removed.
We don't need any anti-Jewish or anti-Muslim remarks that smack of racism.


[edit on 19-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I have to agree with the original post.

I am jewish by birth, but certainly do not practise my religion. My wife is a non-practising catholic and our children will make whatever choice of religion that suits them - if and when they see fit. At 18 and 15 their interest in the matter is - nil.

As soon as we were seperated from our parents influcences, religion played no further part in our lives.

What still impresses me about the jewish faith is that enduring capacity to not only derive humour from suffering - but a rich vein of humour appropriate to every day life.

You hear lots of jewish jokes - but do you ever hear any self-depreciating muslim comedy? These people need to get a sense of humour, they take themselves far too seriously.

Life may not be all he he ha ha, but humanity needs to laugh - there is already so much to cry about.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

with the exception of military service

sidenote:

Israeli Muslims are not obligated to join the army, and only a few dozens volunteer to the IDF every year. But they can join the army, if they want.

(In the beginning of February, we had the frist cause that an Palestinian Israeli wished to join the army's prestigious pilot training course. Arab Muslim wants to join IAF But the IDF's Personnel Directorate has decided to reject the request, instead the army offered the teen to volunteer to the paratroopers.

There is a discussion in Israel whether he

a) did not meet some other criteria that he should bring to join the IAF (his matriculation exam results and his flight abilities are very good; he even had a reference letter from IDF Major (res.) Michael, the youth's instructor at the civilian pilot course) or

b) if the IAF wants to avoid a problem of loyalty to Isarel , when he then would be sent to bombard other Arabs, whether in Gaza or in Lebanon.)



[edit on 19-2-2006 by Riwka]

Originally posted by rdx

do you ever hear any self-depreciating muslim comedy?

oh yes!

Just think about Adel Imam - or Ismail Yassin...

You must be kidding, it takes balls to step out and start a protest, not more security. You think suicide bombers, rebels and others just strap themself and go in war, you need FAITH, you need STRENGTH, summarise it up, you need BALLS.

Originally posted by thawyze
You must be kidding, it takes balls to step out and start a protest, not more security. You think suicide bombers, rebels and others just strap themself and go in war, you need FAITH, you need STRENGTH, summarise it up, you need BALLS.

Balls has nothing to do with it. In order to strap themselves with bomb belt seek innocent children to blow up takes nothing more than HATE. This type of hate was manufactured by all Palestinian factions including the PLO through the lies in their state-sponsored media.
If you want to talk about BALLS look no further than the guards in shopping malls who physically block those bombers from reaching their goals. That takes BALLS, when the guard is up against HATE RIDDEN bombers and they know perfectly well what they are up against but they do their job to save lives.

[edit on 19/2/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

...What I was pointing out, was the fact that they atleast got the courage of liberating Palestine, fighting for whats theirs to begin with. I know, I understand there methods aren't the best but, what do you want them to do? Go and talk it out with Sharon, seriously they have no other choice. What I was stating about BALLS I meant courage to act upon all the media neglected problems Israel started first. Now dont go talking about killing innocent people, US does it, Israel does it, Britian does it, Somehow, the deaths of well over 100,000 Iraqis as the result of the U.S. invasion and Washington’s support for monarchs and dictators across the Middle East are seen irrelevant

I believe Israel created the problems, issues, killings, and assassins so there going to have to deal with it, cause you cant come and just take apart of land put up a wall and live life peacefully, with nobody rebelling against the choice, especially the opressed, Palestine.



[edit on 19-2-2006 by thawyze]

I think the original post was just trying to sum up that there is a feeling of anti-semitism recently.

Originally posted by thawyze
...What I was pointing out, was the fact that they atleast got the courage of liberating Palestine, fighting for whats theirs to begin with. I know, I understand there methods aren't the best but, what do you want them to do? Go and talk it out with Sharon, seriously they have no other choice. What I was stating about BALLS I meant courage to act upon all the media neglected problems Israel started first. Now dont go talking about killing innocent people, US does it, Israel does it, Britian does it, just cause media, shows it a lot of radical Islamic groups killing, more than those countries it happens.

I believe Israel created the problems, issues, killings, and assassins so there going to have to deal with it, cause you cant come and just take apart of land put up a wall and live life peacefully, with nobody rebelling against the choice, especially the opressed, Palestine.

That is where you are wrong. Israel started nothing but created a land for there own people who have been persecuted and neglected for 2000 years. The PROBLEM started when the Arabs realized the Jewish ambition. Arabs could not tolerate the idea of a Jewish entity on what they perceive as ARAB/MUSLIM lands. On the contrary to Arab rhetoric 'Palestine' had a very small population there were far less than 1 million people on a land that today houses 8-9 million people.
When the UN decided to partition the land in 1948 and create Israel on a small strip of land that was smaller than Israel following the war of 1948. On that land Israel was mostly Jewish since the UN split the land along demographical lines. It was the Arabs who did not accept this because of their intolerance to Jewish presence and therefore initiated a war which they lost.

That is what I am trying to convey endlessly to people who seem to negect the facts. For Israel the Arab-Israeli conflict is a conflict of survival. For the Arab it is a matter of pride, jingoism towards Pan-Arabism (which seemed to have been highjacked by Muslims - since many Christian Arabs seem to be more tolerant and even supportive of Israel).

The only understandable claim of the Arabs is that during the war of 1948 Israel expanded its borders and then took more lands. The question I would ask at this point is 'what would have happened if the Arabs would have won'?

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
That is where you are wrong. Israel started nothing but created a land for there own people who have been persecuted and neglected for 2000
years.

Some quick history: More than a century ago, a small group of American and European Jews - known as Zionists - decided to establish a Jewish state in the Middle East. The idea was to escape discrimination and outright pogroms
against Jews in much of Europe. There was only one problem - the land they chose to "call their own" was already home to around half a million Muslim and Christian Palestinians. But the Zionists found a keen sponsor in Great Britain: after seizing control of Palestine from Turkey in 1917, the British government officially endorsed their plan for a Jewish homeland. Over the next three decades, Jewish immigration from Europe to British-controlled Palestine provoked an increasingly hostile reaction from the local population. Following the Nazi Holocaust in Europe, the flow of Jews became a flood, and fighting soon broke out between Zionist militias and Palestinians seeking to defend their homeland. That's when Britain washed its hands of the mess it had created, and turned the Palestinians' fate over to the United Nations.

When the UN decided to partition the land in 1948 and create Israel on a small strip of land that was smaller than Israel following the war of 1948. On that land Israel was mostly Jewish since the UN split the land along demographical lines. It was the Arabs who did not accept this because of their intolerance to Jewish presence and therefore initiated a war which they lost.

Arabs did not accet because many Israelis still have not abandoned their dream of a "Great Israel" that will drive out the Palestinians for good. Israeli extremists, including Ariel Sharon, bitterly opposed an honest agreement with the Palestinians. In 1995, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli religious fanatic. Then again, Israel is building a barrier up to 25 feet high - complete with electrified fencing, concrete walls, ditches and barbed wire - supposedly to protect Israel from terrorist attacks. In reality, the Wall is the latest Israeli ploy to steal more Palestinian land and force the Palestinians to leave. Most of the wall will cut deep into the occupied territories, incorporating into Israel 80% of its illegal settlements and up to 40% of the Palestinian homeland, including fertile farmland and sources of water for Israeli agriculture. It will trap 237,000 Palestinians inside a virtual prison and cut off a further 160,000 from their land and livelihoods. The "Annexation wall" is Sharon's monument to more than 50 years of tyranny and theft.

That is what I am trying to convey endlessly to people who seem to negect the facts. For Israel the Arab-Israeli conflict is a conflict of survival. For the Arab it is a matter of pride, jingoism towards Pan-Arabism (which seemed to have been highjacked by Muslims - since many Christian Arabs seem to be more tolerant and even supportive of Israel).

ARABS are trying to survive It is estimated that since the beginning of the occupation, in 1967, Israel has destroyed over 7,000 buildings, leaving 50,000 men, women and children homeless. USA covers Israel's ass and pays its bills. The US has vetoed more than 30 UN Security Council resolutions that would have helped the Palestinians get out from under Israel's boot. The US has blocked all attempts to put international observers into the territories to protect the Palestinians. Over the past 50 years years, the US Government has given Israel an estimated $90,000,000,000 in aid - that is roughly one-third of all US foreign aid, even though Israelis make up less than .001% of the world's population. Israel receives more US military aid than any other country - in 2002, the US gave more than $2,000,000,000 to Israel's military machine, most of it for the purchase of US weapons. The helicopters and missiles Israel uses to bombard Palestinian refugee camps are all "made in the USA".






[edit on 19-2-2006 by thawyze]

[edit on 19-2-2006 by thawyze]

[edit on 19-2-2006 by thawyze]

Thawyze,
Zionism is the idea of the Jewish return to Zion. It was a concept that was not founded in the 19th century but one that existed in spirit for 2000 years. All that the group of 'Zionists' did was invoke that spirit for the secular Jews. As you said 0.5 million Christians and Muslims but you left out Jews as well. Jerusalem was mostly Jewish from the earlier part of that century.
True there are those that spoke about Greater Israel which was on what is today termed as Jordan, Israel and West bank but any piece of land was enough. The reason the Arabs attacked Israel in 1948 was not because of the perceived threat that Israel posed, but out of Arab pride. THe UN ruling on the creation of Israel also formed Palestine, but Palestine was rejected as a concept since neighboring countries started dibbying up the booty of the expected war. Jordan wanted the Arab portions, so Did Syria and Egypt wanted everything else.

Then again, Israel is building a barrier up to 25 feet high - complete with electrified fencing, concrete walls, ditches and barbed wire - supposedly to protect Israel from terrorist attacks. In reality, the Wall is the latest Israeli ploy to steal more Palestinian land and force the Palestinians to leave.

I really laugh when I read that. SUPPOSEDLY. Israel IMAGINED the terrorist campaign that Yassir and his cohorts rained down on Israel. It was a fantasy dreamed up by the wicked Jews who plan on stealing Palestinian land. They so wanted to steal Palestinian land that they withdrew from Gaza entirely. Even settlements that were on the border with Israel and did not in any way shape or form interfere with Palestinian life was abandonded and handed over to the Palestinians. Do you see the lack of reason in your statement. Totally disregard the fact that the wall set-up cut down suicide bombing significantly. Totally disregard the fact that Palestinians were on a blood thirsty rampage for years now. That statement you made pulled out all the creadibility from your arguements.

When you say Arabs are trying to survive you are probably trying to justify their hostile nature. You seem to forget that if Israel wanted to end the conflict it is not outside of their military capability to wipe-out the entire Palestinian population within a few days. Instead Israel does not do this. They take great measures to minimize civilian casualties (see the supposed Jenin massacre as proof - Israel could have hit the belligerent targets from the air but chose to send in soldiers so that civilian casualties would be minimal). Israel targets militants and attempts to minimize civilain casualties Arabs target civilians and try to maximize civilian casualties. This that fact put on the table would you prefer that the US support Hamas so that they can annhilate the Jews - that is what they want -

See the Hamas Charter

to paraphrase:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

and

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

Read that last sentence again - You know what that means? That means that after Israel, Europe will be next. This is not the ideology of Hamas alone, it is shared by Al-Qaida, the Moslem Brotherhood, Iran, Sudan and all other Moslem Ideologicall organization. The US and Europe are well aware of this - so why do you think they support Israel.

Zionism is the idea of the Jewish return to Zion

It may of start as that, but not its a whole different ideology, it went from taking "whats theirs" that they state is, Jerusalem to a movement of liberating Israel to turn Israel to "Great Israel" and like I stated before, push out Palestine from there area, land by land.

Totally disregard the fact that the wall set-up cut down suicide bombing significantly.

Total disregard of Palestines, land, freedom and life. You act as tho there all terrorists, not having any support from huge superpowers like US, palestine has to find different methods, Israel has air-strikes and bombs that will pinpoint exact location like when Israel took out the Hamas leader and killed 2 others and wounded some, there only method left for freedom is suicide bombing. what makes them different is that for the past 56 years, Israel has made their lives hell, no support or anything whatsoever its like I come to your house and I say I'am taking over your house you live in the basement I got the top two floors and I pay you nothing.

if Israel wanted to end the conflict it is not outside of their military capability to wipe-out the entire Palestinian population within a few days. Instead Israel does not do this. They take great measures to minimize civilian casualties

...So your telling me if Israel could just kill millions of Palestinians within a few days? No never, if they could do that trust me it would've happened a long time ago, they know if they harm the muslim country they'll get targetted by half the world, and politicians would be all over there back. That will give Jews a negative image to the world, so they'll lose there support. So please dont tell me there trying to minimize civilian casualties because thats complete BS.