It's my view that the human body can be likened to a machine.
You can compare it to a car for instance.
The spirit/conciousness is the bodies' driver. Without it, the body is inert/lifeless/dead.
Ultimately whether it is through old age ,violent destructive incident (accidental or otherwise) there will come a time when the body/car will cease to function properly or at all.
Things can be repaired, fixed,upgraded throughout the life of the vehicle but there comes a time when you've got to move on.......to a new model!

I remember this description of the body and soul being put forward in a documentary about Buddhism.

Looking for a link.

Yes I have had these types of thoughts as well...

The ball started rolling when I was watching star trek one day - they have this machine that can make stuff just appear and I was thinking that it must bulid stuff from the molecular level so if they could do this they would need some kind of "blueprint" as to the exact make up of the thing that needs to be made.

I then thought, what if they got the blueprint for a human and made an exact copy of one human being - not cloning, but an exact "snapshot" copy of an existing human - would the resulting replica have the awareness of the original even if it was an exact copy? I will probably never have 100% proof, but I don't think this would be the case due to a lack of Point's Driver (haha we have a new name for the soul?).

Anyway this got me to thinking that maybe "Point's Driver" exists in this reality in such a way that it's not detectible... Think of a car being driven around, a sentient car (indulge me please) that had no sense of the world outside of it's own system. Lots of things would be happening, gear changes, etc but the sentient car would never be aware of the driver other than through the driver's actions and it's own philosophical musings...

-SW

[edit on 15-2-2006 by sobolwolf]

Originally posted by point
It's my view that the human body can be likened to a machine.
You can compare it to a car for instance.
The spirit/conciousness is the bodies' driver. Without it, the body is inert/lifeless/dead.
Ultimately whether it is through old age ,violent destructive incident (accidental or otherwise) there will come a time when the body/car will cease to function properly or at all.
Things can be repaired, fixed,upgraded throughout the life of the vehicle but there comes a time when you've got to move on.......to a new model!

I agree with you 100%

What do you think about cloning though? If/when humans are cloned, would it be alive or not?

I think that it would have a life that is totally individual to the original subject, because as you have said the body is just a machine anyway. Therefore cloning a body is nothing more than cars being on a production plant.

Hi Observer, Regarding a cloned human body I agree with you. If in working order and a spirit/driver was "at the controls" so to speak then it would most definately be 'alive'.
The type of spirit/driver would of course express his/her unique personality (driving style) through the physical vehicle.
Being modeled on the original blueprint, it would share the same mechanical characteristics, appearance and flaws.

Originally posted by point
Things can be repaired, fixed,upgraded throughout the life of the vehicle but there comes a time when you've got to move on.......to a new model!

Or maybe a new type of vehicle completely if you've learnt to drive the car properly....

The physical world is a machine.

Input, output, on, and off = Eat, poo, live, and die

It's a layered machine. The macrosmic is very orderly to maintain the environment or ma·trix -- n. -- A surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained.

The layers below are more variable to allow for the highest amount of conscious creative experience. Each step down becomes increasingly chaotic.

The body is the VR-suit allowing for a full immersive experience. The human body is much too inefficient to operate very well without a source of external energy. The Gray anatomy on the other hand is highly efficient and doesn't require an external source. Physical nutriets are enough for them.

If it is accepted that the human body is a machine, merely a vehicle of expression for the spirit /conciousness that drives it, then who or what designed the machine? For what purpose and with what intentions in mind?

All human created machines (such as cars, computers, rockets,etc.) have designers, blueprints, prototypes.

The nature of the creation points to the nature of its creator.

[font=Courier New]I believe that the human body MAY have been created around the microorganisms that live within us. They evolved into multicellular organisms, and created various tissues to aid in their survival- example- Digestive bacteria beginning as a one cell, phagocytotic being, that over time mutation occurs in the RNA, creating new proteins that facilitate a large holding organ like the stomach. This viewpoint is a very well recognized hypothesis(of many many), but to me this doesn't explain the brain- it is hard to believe that it was formed just to create an intelligent vessel for the lives of microorganisms. The main evidence for this theory is that it is likely that many of the organelles (mitochondria, etc.) are present in noncellular forms in microorganic level, and it is hypothosized that phagocytes eat them, hence gaining their services. Who knows.[/font]

Originally posted by point
If it is accepted that the human body is a machine, merely a vehicle of expression for the spirit /conciousness that drives it, then who or what designed the machine? For what purpose and with what intentions in mind?

Why does there have to be someone/something that deliberately created us? From what we know about science, evolution and the universe everything in our universe obeys a set of rules. A set of rules that the universe has obeyed as far back as we can see. Now, we might not understand some of these rules and we definately haven't discovered all of them, but it doesn't mean we have to jump to the conclusion that someone is 'pulling the strings' off stage.

Spirit or conciousness is not something that science can detect or quantify. This doesn't however mean that it doesn't exist. To make an analogy, consider a being that exists in only 2 dimensions. If in this reality if a 3rd dimension exists, the 2 dimensional being is not going to be able to percieve or measure anything in this 3rd dimension. This doesn't negate the fact that this 3rd dimension exists. It just can't been seen and obeys a completely different set of rules to the 1st and 2nd dimension.

Now consider us. Our physical bodies exist within 3 dimensions (4 if you consider time as one but I'm going to stick with 3 to make it easier). A further untold number of dimensions could exist, but we would not be able to measure or quantify them or anything in them. It doesn't mean they don't exist, we are just not set up to 'see' them.

Now perhaps spirit or conciousness occupies a different dimension. We are never going to be able to detect it, or prove it using our '3 dimensional science'. Again, this doesn't mean that the consciousness dimension doesn't exist. It will just have a certain set of rules that we can only hope to guess at.

If you can except that our universe as we see it is, and always has been governed by a certain set of rules, then it is logical to think that if they exist, all these other dimensions being part of the universe will be driven by a certain set of rules.

If the human body is a machine, it doesn't have to have a designer. It evolved using a set of universal 'rules'. Just as life elsewhere in the universe has to have evolved. So you may be able to then see how consciousness has evolved in it's own dimension, under a different set of laws that we have no idea about, and maybe never will. The idea of someone or something designing and creating us for a specific purpose or not seems unnessecary when you look at this universal bigger picture. The universe as we see it works to certain laws and has always worked to certain laws. To suggest that the bits of existance we don't understand or can't comprehend behave any differently, goes against logic and common sense.

God throughout history has been used as an explanation for things that man does not understand. The way everything in the universe works if you like. I've heard the expression (God is everywhere and all around you) many times, and it's true, if you take God as a metaphor for the universe. The spirit can still exist and life after death can still exist, without the need for a medling creator God.

The nature of the creation points to the nature of its creator.

Thats if you believe there is a creator With the universe governed by rules, it's a little like one giant computer program. A simulation if you like. If a creator does exist, he could have just coded the program and run it.....then the universe takes care of itself from it's birth until it's death (if one exists). The creator doesn't have to do anything except sit back and watch

[edit on 19/2/06 by Asnivor]

Seriously, because frankly these concepts and ideas are what we (as a whole) need to focus on. It is always a good thing for one to ponder his/her existence.

After all, the ability to do so is our truest form of freedom.


I believe that our body is indeed a "machine" that allows us to experience this world(maybe others too...).

I too believe that we are experiencing this "reality" to garner knowledge or to gain a larger view of reality and our role in it.

As to who made the "machine" body, nobody on the face of the earth currently can say for sure. Furthermore, does it even matter? Isn't it rather the REASON said creator(and by creator I mean person, race or environment) made the body that we should be concerned with?

If I had to ponder what created us, as I often do for fun, I would have to say that Freemasonry's "Great Architecht of the Universe" is my most logical canidate(or whatever it really is that makes up the ideal of G.A.O.T.U.) . I am not a Mason or anything. I have just done much reading and looking at the roots of Freemasonry in the Ancient Mystery Schools leads me to think they have a larger view of reality than many.

Of course, that's assuming that there is a "creator", in the traditional sense of the word. There could just as easily not be one, and we are in fact here AS OUR OWN CREATOR. Which would then mean that we are all in a way, a collective that has chosen to build this reality together for the purpose, the REASON that deep down each of us seek to better understand.


Again, regardless of who, the WHY of our nature is what truly facinates me. I believe that the information is out there. And that while a human mind may not be able to fully understand that information, it can be obtained.


Thank you to any who cared to read,

X

The 'WHY' of our nature is a pointer to the nature of the 'WHO' that created us.
As I said earlier "the nature of the creation points to the nature of the creator"
All man made things are created/designed.
It makes sense to me that all non man made things are also created /designed by a greater intelligence than man.
Is it so far fetched that there can be a greater intelligence than man?
For Mankind to assume that he is the pinnacle of intelligence when there are so many things in existence that he doesn't understand seems just a tad arrogant.

What makes you, YOU? Some think it's your heart, some your brain, some the whole package. I think that your soul is what really defines you. All of the other components of the human "car" are pretty similar from one person to the next, even the brain. As complex as it might be, the brain works in a similar fashion for everyone. The soul is the one aspect that is truly unique from person to person, and perhaps entity to entity. This begs the question of how much importance should be placed on the "vehicle" seeing as how much less significant it is in comparison with it's driver?

The world is full of illusions and one of the biggest illusions is that we are our bodies.
I remember the time when I realized that I was not my body, just residing in it temporarily. I couldn't believe how such a simple truth did not occur to my mind earlier in life.
The belief that you are not merely your body opens so many mental doors and greatly reduces the significance of the body.
Suddenly reincarnation,ghosts ,the astral plane, the significance of death,and a myriad of other topics spring to mind and beg serious inspection and/or review.

Perhaps not everyone has a soul. Maybe some people have no driver at all. Without a driver they could be easily driven by whatever forces they encounter in their immediate environment. They would easily be swayed by pseudo-authority figures because that's what the machine was programmed to do. They would be unable to change the programming because it would be their original programming. Whereas a car with a driver could change their programming because it wasn't the original build.

If such were the case it would be a losing battle to attempt to help change their programming.

Arm Of Geddon:
Perhaps you're right. I think your on to something there.
It would explain a lot of the sheep-like behavior in many.
Maybe there's an autopilot, or even a remote control thrown into the equation with regard to some.
Maybe many can be controlled with one remote controlled by a single driver.

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps I'm a drone, unwittingly working towards achieving my controllers goals. What do you think the proportion is of drone's compared to free souls?

Originally posted by mytym
That's an interesting thought. Perhaps I'm a drone, unwittingly working towards achieving my controllers goals. What do you think the proportion is of drone's compared to free souls?

If it was a natural thing it would probably be balanced, just like the positive and negative polarities are balanced. The Universe loves it's balance.

Are the thoughts and ideas we have entirely our own or do we simply receive and translate/interpret them with our biological computer brain?
Perhaps like a radio receiver translating radio waves into sound.