Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Nonsense, it is a simple recognition of the reality of what happened.
The vast bulk of the fighting in the 'European theatre' with the Germans was in the east by Russia and Russia won that hands down.
That does not deny others contributed and neither does it down-play that contribution
That might be true if you said that Russia won the vast bulk of the fighting in Europe. That would have been recognition of what happened. But you
didnt you just said
The truth is that Russia won WW2 in Europe.
Down playing the others.
WW2 was a team effort for the Allies in Europe. You know that theres no I in team stuff. I never said one side helped more then the other side. This
is really more about my use of the phrase "Helped alot" and thats really just symantics.
If your trying to make it seem like I was suggesting Russia didnt handle the bulk of the fighting in Europe your wasting your time because I wasnt
But there was a lot more factors to the Western front then just when D-day started and how many Germans they killed that do not allow me to say and
single country won the war in Europe like you do.
The US could have really upped the kill total though if say 500,000 Nazi POWs would have died in captivity like they did under the Soviets.
The fact remains that Russia had effectively defeated the German armies by June 1944 and the outcome was never in any real doubt.
This is also down playing the effort Hitler had to use in men and resources before the Western front was even started in preparing for it. Or the
million of tons of munitions and other war material the other allies gave to the Soviet union. See these are some of the other factors I was talking
about you seem to have no care to factor in.
Stalin wanted the 2nd front to reduce the pressure on Russia, that is perfectly reasonable, totally understandable and nothing like the same as saying
that without it they either couldn't win or would have lost now, is it?
Did I ever say they couldn't or could win without it? I said their odds didnt look so good without it, and thats true if Hitler didnt have to waste
resources and man power in defense of the comming invasion and then the invasion itself it wouldn't have increased Stalins odds.
They hardly 'waited' until the atomic bomb was dropped (something almost no-one outside of the USA knew about anyway) and the idea that they would
just happen to attack the day after hearing about Hiroshima to somehow capitalise on it is as ignorant of the facts as it is laughable.
Yeah you would think that was laughable but you know thats exactly what happened. Russia didnt declare war on Japan until after a Atomic bomb was
dropped and Japan was about to surrender.
And no-one outside of the USA knew about the A bomb
Nows whos showing some ignorance. Thats pretty funny all the Allied leaders were told about
the weapon before it was used. Stalin even knew about it before the US told him some how. Though its not really known if he knew exactly how powerful
this new weapon was going to be before it was dropped.
Feb 3rd 1945 at Yalta
And you were knocking on the US for showing up late to the party. Feb 1945 yeah really looked like Japan was going to turn it around by then. Im sure
they just need to catch a second win and it would have been all good.
Japan was far from considered defeated, even after Hiroshima the Japanese military did not wish to sue for peace.
They were trying to surrender even before the A-bombs were dropped. Though they wanted some conditions (mainly that the emperor remain in power) and
the US wanted unconditional surrender.
Some parts of the Japanese military didnt want to surrender after the Bombings thats true but they were a rather small percent and they failed the
Emperor had already had up his mind.
Russias biggest factor in the war with Japan was maybe the threat that they would demand a part in a post-war occupation in Japan. If they got
involved in the war to any real degree. We all know how that Soviet "liberation" and occupation turned out
The fact that they didnt have any part in post-war occupation of Japan is testimony to just how much of a factor they were in the war with Japan.
One thing I can agree with you on sminkeypinkey is not hijacking this thread anymore. If you want to start a thread on How Russia won Europe or how
Russia helped defeat Japan Ill be all for it.
[edit on 14-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]