Marines [ RM ] 'violent bullying' probed

The MOD is promising a major inquiry into allegations of bullying and " hazing " ceremonies at training establishments run by the elite Royal Marines . A video leaked to the " news of the world " newspaper allegedly shows 2 recruits being forced to fight as their comrades and NCOs look on



This has got to go in the ` what were they thinking ` file .

Military training and service life CANNOT be a totally pleasant experience , free of all unpleasantness and hardship - such men would be near useless in a war . But , dressing in drag to watch as two naked men are forced to fight ???? Exactly what does that achieve ?????????

Is there a solution , it is probably impossible to stamp out such activity totally , but a start would be - rewarding personnel who stand up to , and report such activity , instead of ignoring the problem and punishing the whistleblowers and victims . As IMHO taking a stand demonstrates leadership potential and sound character


Related News Links:
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[edit on 30-11-2005 by asala]

This is beyond bizarre!

Isn't morale everything in our armed forces? How could the men these recruits are suppossed to respect and follow reconcile this type of behavior?

The nudity, costumes, and mats are a bit odd, but 'milling' as this practice is called is fairly common, or has been, since the 80's. Para used to do it, RMs used to do it. Bare knuckle boxing is dangerous, yes, but then again, you don't become a soldier to cower behind a desk your entire life.

DE

Just like the ranger 'hazing' vids years ago I honestly don't see the problem. If we continually gut traditions we can't possibly understand as civvies, and yes to a limitted extent I understand them personally, we may be orchestrating our own downfall. We may not understand but to an extent the world of the professional killer, yes I know horribly un PC term for what they do but such is life, is a closed one to us. They definitelly have their own mores values and social traditions both more sophistic and tribal than our own at the same time.
we can either deal with the distasteful reality now or learn to face mecca 7 times daily or face the tomb of mao whoever gets to us first. again yes horribly un PC but the fact remains that the intestinal fortitude and group determination to win is lacking in western society versus eastern. The question is do we deny our striker arms and the undeniable fangs of our individual based society to be pulled by public discomfort?

The sole reason I voted yes is to encourage active and open debate on the moral implications of allowing some to transform themselves into something vaguelly distasteful to repugnant to the average citizen to secure our way of life. If we can't have this discussion do we truly deserve any of what we claim as inalienable rights?

The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw this story is that it's probably some kind of training for the soldier to observe weird, 'out-there' behavior to make it easier and more acceptable for what they might see in the prisons where the Coalition is holding 'enemy combatants'.

In other words, after watching two of your own men fight nude while dressed in drag, it wouldn't be such a shock to one's sensitivities to see a pile of naked Iraqis or connect electrodes to a hooded man's genitals.

I voted for the story. This is not training that I want the military (who is supposed to protect me) going through. This is psychological conditioning of some strange variety. If things are that bizarre, I think something is dreadfully wrong inside the service. And people should know about it.

Any service men here ever go through this 'training'? ...

"Just imagine a young man turning up in his unit and being made to wrestle naked in a field while his non-commissioned officers are dressed up in women's frillies. I mean, it's not very dignified stuff, is it?"

You know, this calls to question the army's policy of "don't ask don't tell" for homosexuals. I don't know if Britain has the same type of thing in their army, but for many years there's been debate over the issue of allowing openly gay men into the American military. Basically right now our policy is for gay men to "stay in the closet" otherwise they will be discharged. Stuff like this makes me think that gay men would get along just fine with the "straight" men in the army...

Here is the Related Other Current Thread:

Ritual Abuse of UK Marines

Link to a Video

I mentioned on another thread that is covering this story, that it was a Marine get together that got out of hand.

This is in no way any kind of training, nor is it some type of training to desensitize the Marines for any up coming postings.

It ,no doubt started as nothing more than a group of lads letting off steam. It then got out of hand, fueled by alcohol and some idiot NCO who pulled rank and kicked the young Marine unconscious.
I would not want to be that NCO right now. He will have a hell of a time trying to explain this one away.
Once the powers that be have dealt with him, then the Marines being what they are (as are most soldiers) will deal with things in their own way. I will leave that up to you what that could entail. It will happen, and it will get covered up and forgot.

There are a lot of these type of things going on in the British Army, but it is only fun, and does not escalate as this 'party' did.

Thanks, Eddie, I'm really glad to hear that. And I hope you're right.

I can understand a party getting out of hand, especially with lots of alcohol and a NCO who isn't doing his job right.

No problem.

I hope i am right with what i explained. These type of initiation things can and do get well out of hand.

Still, there is no excuse for an NCO (Non Commissioned Officer) to do what he did.

[edit on 27-11-2005 by Bikereddie]

This is'nt proper milling. As far as i know milling has been stopped in many parts of the army, when i was serving a couple of the only units to still do the official milling was the paras and i know the RMP Close Protection teams did it in training. Proper milling consisted of you wearing heavy gloves and you stood toe to toe and hammered it out until you stopped your apponent, or it was stopped after a certain length of time. It was an excellent training tool for showing character and spirit, also for teaching controlled aggression. It was organised though, and was'nt a bullying free for all run by some power crazy idiots like these guys.
People can quote "character building" methods all they like when they watch this footage, but this is'nt the way to go about it.

This is indeed a shame as the RM's always were up there with the best that the UK have to offer. Hopefully it is just confined to a few bully boy NCO's, and if it goes higher than the NCO's as is suggested in the papers, then i hope those at the top get shafted for it too!

As usual they probably won't though.

CX.

I have a friend in 42 commando and his "Initiation" was a little bit more bizzare then this one.

They were taken to a billet and made to dress as women
They then were made to swig rum and run around the billet whilst being sprayed with a fire hose
More Rum and more running
Running through thorny hedges (still dressed as women, drunk and soaked to the skin)

Then it gets a little more weird

They were taken into the billet and told to strip naked and a man in a gimp suit was brought in on a lead. In turn each of the new members of the regiment has to wrestle the gimp and the only way to win was to...ahem insert your finger up the gimps bum or you lost when the gimp did the same to you.

This isn't a joke, this was what he had to go through.

What makes me laugh the most is that the forces are so anti gay but they have these blatent homo-erotic initiations!

HeeHee thats funny...

but all seriousness.... the men them selfs wouldnt give a flying *censored* about this, its part of being a royal marine, and as for the van dam wannabe, wouldnt you want him next too you in war? people forget that, these men are trained killers, nothing more nothing less, they train longer harder and tougher than anyone else in the bussiness, ive often heard them joke about them taking navy seals along on ops as tea maids.

wars hell, and you dont want people who scream when there asses are on fire.

M.O.D should do nothing, except re edit the video with a sound track and blast it over the airwaves of every arab country... im sure them sensitive arabs will love it.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by yeehaa]

mod edit: do not circumvent the censors

[edit on 30-11-2005 by sanctum]

Has anyone even asked the Marines what they think to milling?

I can guarantee the one that got KO'd would have just laughed about it then downed a can of Stella and crushed the empty with his testicles

Originally posted by Bengals for the superbowl
I have a friend in 42 commando and his "Initiation" was a little bit more bizzare then this one.

They were taken to a billet and made to dress as women
They then were made to swig rum and run around the billet whilst being sprayed with a fire hose
More Rum and more running
Running through thorny hedges (still dressed as women, drunk and soaked to the skin)

Then it gets a little more weird

They were taken into the billet and told to strip naked and a man in a gimp suit was brought in on a lead. In turn each of the new members of the regiment has to wrestle the gimp and the only way to win was to...ahem insert your finger up the gimps bum or you lost when the gimp did the same to you.

This isn't a joke, this was what he had to go through.

What makes me laugh the most is that the forces are so anti gay but they have these blatent homo-erotic initiations!

Wow mabye your friend knows my cousin in law in 42?
Mabye then you can explain how this never happened to the other 3 marines I've known through basic training?

Different NCO's do different things to there troops is my only guess at why your three mates didn't.

Just as Rich didn't have to do any naked mud wrestling roll mat fighting as shown in the footage

Oh and it didn't happen during basic or prmc, it happened just after they got their beret's and were assigned to there unit, sorry for not making that one clear

Originally posted by Bengals for the superbowl
Different NCO's do different things to there troops is my only guess at why your three mates didn't.

Just as Rich didn't have to do any naked mud wrestling roll mat fighting as shown in the footage

Oh and it didn't happen during basic or prmc, it happened just after they got their beret's and were assigned to there unit, sorry for not making that one clear

Well mate I've known them for quite a while, two passed out 3 months ago and another 2 have been in for atleast 2 years.....no such thing ever happened except one time when they got very very very very very drunk....but that just involved a rubber boat and the river forth.

Well find out from them if they have any first hand experience of this sort of stuff as it may not have happened to them but they may have been present and witnessed it themselves?

Originally posted by Bengals for the superbowl
Well find out from them if they have any first hand experience of this sort of stuff as it may not have happened to them but they may have been present and witnessed it themselves?

Doubt it, spoke to them about it and they didnt say anything abut it infact they didnt want to talk about those marines on tv.

Fair enough then. Maybe they just didn't want to be tarred with the same brush. I'm still waiting to hear from my mate, sent him a txt couple of days ago but will post as soon as I hear