The union label----Hammer and Sickle

Communism doesn't allow unions or any personal freedoms but they are the People's party. Communism is for the working class, mostly because they don't let many advance out of that class. The typical worker remains a worker until they die. Only a select few rise to higher positions and get to enjoy luxuries.

The workers, like cattle, are taken care of, so they say, no one knows because there is no freedom of press or speech, we have to take the word of the leaders, and the leaders say that they take care of their workers, that's nice.

In a Capitalist country like America people are free to create unions, assemble and speak freely, even against the Capitalist CEOs that they work for.

Most union people are taught to hate Corporations and CEOs, because that legitimizes the union’s existence----they protect the workers from those evil CEOs, that's nice.

According to union bosses there are no good CEOs or Corporations, and for the protection of the workers every company, and industry, including government employees must be represented by unions for their protection.

The unions have been very successful at filling their people with that kind of paranoia and therefore many blue collar workers distrust employers.

How long will it be before there is an uprising against Corporate America because of the lies from the union left?

When the workers revolt against Capitalism, and take it down, what's next?

Socialism is a slippery slope to communism.

Communism is not bad for those that grew up in it, they don't know any better.

Going from freedom, and owning personal property like cars, houses, boats, big screen televisions, and being able to tell your boss to shove it, taking vacations and spending your own money are freedoms most Americans take for granted----and will miss dearly if left-wing unions manage to convince Americans that Corporations and CEOs are the root of all evil.

Under Communism no one will hear your cries, or care.

Carseller are you saying that America is headed towards communism with a Republican in the whitehouse and a Republican controlled congress ?
The concept of Unions is fine but as usual its people who mange to take what should be a good thing and make it into something that can cause trouble.

Carseller how will you prevent a company from exploiting you?

Originally posted by xpert11


Carseller how will you prevent a company from exploiting you?

Carseller?

Anyway, no company can exploit anyone in America----in other countries that's another story----can't help you there.

The only people who are exploited in America are those too lazy to leave the company they hate and get a job elsewhere, or they like abuse.

Why do abused women stay with the men that abuse them when there are a number of ways to get away from them?

America is filled with people that were exploited and hated their jobs-----many are now CEOs of their own companies, the very people the leftwing hates because they have shown that it can be done.

In America most corporations started in some garage on a shoestring.

But no one is going to make it for you, you have to do it yourself-----that's hard work.

It's much easier to complain and sit back and collect a welfare check, or get a union job.

Whatever the tactics of the Unions, they're been a godsend for the working man. Whatever the politics of the Unions, without them the working man'd be living in terrible conditions, used and abused by their employers. For all the problems with Unions, they're well worth it, certainly they are loved by their clients.

As far as the soviets not permitting unions, well, that in itself should show that they are a good thing. But of course, why would there be a union in a communist country, since the state is the Union.

Originally posted by Nygdan

As far as the soviets not permitting unions, well, that in itself should show that they are a good thing. But of course, why would there be a union in a communist country, since the state is the Union.

The Soviets are no more, but communism lives and is spreading like the Aids virus around the world and so are unions.

Unions and communism are pretty much one and the same; they despise Capitalism, yet without Capitalism to feed off, neither Communism nor unions would survive.

The unions claim to walk on water for the workers, yet they have done nothing, however, they have done a good job convincing people that they are the messiah.

The damage unions have done to democracy cannot be calculated, they have divided the nation between those who have and those who have and want more, without more effort.

Unions have slandered the hand that feeds them (Capitalism), creating a class of citizens that hate Capitalism, and are jealous of anyone that has more than they.

The Bolsheviks believed they were doing their fellow workers a favor when they destroyed Russia but all they did was condemn several generations of Russians to live as slaves----no freedom whatsoever, and poverty for all.

The cancer that is unions is slowly working its way into the bloodstream of America, and will destroy it if not stopped----maybe that's the plan.

Sorry about the mix up sleeper.
You do realize that it isnt ease finding a job?
You do know that before unions there was no 8 hour day?
Sleeper if all the companys will exploit you how will you protect yourself?

Originally posted by sleeper
Unions and communism are pretty much one and the same; they despise Capitalism

Unions hardly despise capitalism. Surely some unionists are socialists, but hardly all. There is nothing anti-capitalist about collective bargaining and the like.

The unions claim to walk on water for the workers, yet they have done nothing

Absolutely untrue. Non-union jobs, in the blue collar world, are some of the lowest paying ones, and are the worst to have in terms of the benefits that the company gives you and how they treat you. WIthout a union, they'll hire and fire at will, withhold pay, wages would be far too low, and there'd be nothing like the pension/retirement system as we know it. Also, far better to have unions squeeze these things out of the companies that the members work for than to have the government pay for these things via taxes.

The damage unions have done to democracy cannot be calculated, they have divided the nation between those who have and those who have and want more, without more effort.

Preposterous. White Collar workers want more without more effort just as much as blue collar workers do, thats the essence of the modern capitalist way of thinking, get more for less. Unions make it so that the workers can get more benefits, higher wages, more job security, and better working conditions. This has not been a damaging thing to society. Those 'workers' are the larger part of society.

have slandered the hand that feeds them (Capitalism), creating a class of citizens that hate Capitalism,and are jealous of anyone that has more than they.[/qote]
This is simply untrue and the only peopel that are going to beleive this hype are readers who have little to no expereince with unions and people who work with a union. Its rather absurd to suggest that Unions are the reason why people are jealous of others that have more money and riches than them.

sheviks believed they were doing their fellow workers a favor when they destroyed Russia

Irrelevant. Unions are not socialist fronts or marxist radicals.

The cancer that is unions is slowly working its way into the bloodstream of America, and will destroy it if not stopped----maybe that's the plan.

er, no. Unions have a vested interest in preserving america and are one of the biggest forces of nationalism in the country today. Capitalism is the ideology that ignores nations and peoples. I'm not saying that there is anythign wrong with that, but merely pointing out that you are wrong. Its preposterous to pose Unions as anti-american but then say that capitalists, who are merely people who are interested in the free flow of capital and the unrestricted action of the market. are somehow patriots. Capitalists have business interests (which is all good), Unions have social, familial, and national interests.

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by xpert11

You do realize that it isnt ease finding a job?

epert11

There is no shortage of jobs in the large cities for those with skills, for those without skills they will have to find a job that will teach them.

As I stated in another tread the child labor law----created by the unions keep people like me from teaching skills, even for free.

And there are jobs going overseas because unions are forcing many companies out of business.

I was put out of business by the unions, so the jobs I created didn't go overseas, they just disappeared.

You do know that before unions there was no 8 hour day?

Before unions there were few jobs to be had and working long hours was a privilege few had----most didn't work any hours and would have killed to have those long hours, or any job for that matter.

Many people work more than 8 hours today, it's called overtime. People will work long hours for the money.

In the old days there wasn't much else to do but work, work was a privilege and most people were grateful for it----the more hours the better.

Sleeper if all the companys will exploit you how will you protect yourself?

If I lived in a Communist or Socialist country there would be nothing I could do but live with it.

In America I can change jobs, or create my own company.

Regardless of what Hollywood says and what unions say most companies do not exploit workers.

In America employees are valuable; companies can’t exist and prosper without them. Good employees can name their own price because all companies are looking for them.

In America if you have skills, and are a quality individual, you are in big demand, and you will get paid what you are worth.

If you are in a union and you are a quality individual you get the same pay as the goof off, so the union penalizes the good workers. Eventually the good workers realize there is no profit in being good and become slackers too.

That’s the union way!

Yes... this is Carseller...was someone talking to me?

Unions have outlived their purpose, and now are just a political machine.

One of my 1st jobs was a Union job. I outproduced my co-workers by huge margins and was repeatedly told to "slow down you are making us look bad". I asked for a raise, but was refused because the Union contract required I be on the job a certain amount of time.

I resigned from the Union the next day and tried again a week later, but was still denied a raise.

From that day forward I realized if you want to be an individual, Unions are not for you.

Originally posted by Carseller4
Yes... this is Carseller...was someone talking to me?

Sorry my my mistake was ment to be adressing Sleeper.
Sleeper with out a union how do you intend to have safe workplace and reasonable pay?
One of the reasons your boss didnt give you a raise is that you dont have any power unless a group of people demand higher pay.

Is it the unions fault that workers abuse the system?

Originally posted by xpert11
Is it the unions fault that workers abuse the system?

I think the union system of operating and worker regulating allows for such abuse.

Furthermore, consider this: the recent set of airline bankruptcy's and considered bankruptcy's were attributed to mainly union issues. The recent talk of GM and possibly Ford filing for bankruptcy's are also attirbuted to union issues, despite how the media is spinning GM's problem being associated to lack of design inspirations and such.

Just something to think about and/or consider.

Also,I do not think that the unions equate to Communism. Why? Because unions would not have been allowed to exist under a Communist system.






seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof



Furthermore, consider this: the recent set of airline bankruptcy's and considered bankruptcy's were attributed to mainly union issues. The recent talk of GM and possibly Ford filing for bankruptcy's are also attirbuted to union issues, unions would not have been allowed to exist under a Communist system.

Ok if unions are the problem whats your soloution?
For the record Im not pro union I just think there needs to be balance. A country shouldnt have to deal with unions holding a country to ransome nor should employes have to put up with descrimanation and other issues.

Unions represent how many workers and what type workers?
How many people work in this country without being in a union and do just fine when it comes to discrimination and other type issues?

You asked what would I do about unions?
I would can them all.
They have outlived there use.




seekerof

There's a fairly accepted rule that unionised workers tend to get paid more than non-unionised workers. . . and people in smaller workplaces tend to get worse pay and conditions than people in large workplaces."

The public sector had basically become the "union heartland", with the main other areas of union membership including manufacturing and finance. Women now made up about 52 per cent of union membership because they were concentrated in the public sector, he said.

Opinions on the extent of unionisation desirable for an economy could be polarised with some economists arguing it would be better with no unions.

On the other hand Scandinavian countries, such as Sweden, which had about 80 per cent union membership, had among the highest living standards in the world.
link

I am currently looking for more concrete info I will post any more info that I find. If your a low -middle income worker who has a familt to support and in America health care to pay for why would you except lower wages outside of a union?

I know some one who pays employes what there worth and it him for that the problem is most employers arent that smart. Plus in NZ we have the problem of unskilled and skilled workers getting paid the same amount. In some cases unskilled workers get the more then there skilled counter parts.

Although to be fair the problem outlined above as more to do with the half baked low wage econmy then unions.

I found this.
This new legislation did not, however, reintroduce compulsory unionism, and there was only a slight rise in the proportion of unionised workers to 17.6% of the employed labour force at the end of 2002. They were in 174 unions, not all of which were members of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions
link

[edit on 26-11-2005 by xpert11]