It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Should Christian's Keep Kosher According to Jewish Law

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 07:54 PM
link   
I am a Messianic Jew who attends a Christian Highschool and one of my friends recently asked me why I keep kosher and should she, in turn, do the same according to Scripture. I have just recently started to study this question, but have always assumed, since birth, that, as believer's in Christ, we should all adhere to the kosher laws. I don't really have to much of a bias on this topic yet but would be really greatful if anyone could offer some valid arguments supporting or denying whether or not Christians should keep the kosher laws.

Thanks a lot!!




posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:05 PM
link   
The great argument that took place between Paul and Peter was over this very topic. Peter felt that the Jewish laws, cermonies, holy days and rituals should be mandated to the new christians. Paul stated that this was not required for salvation, and would only constitute a further burden to the new convert.

The Ebionite Jews were Christian Jews who adhered to the Jewish laws.

My personal opinion is that there is merit in trying to adhere to the Jewish living laws, but that they are not required. I look at it as a personal choice. A further act of piety that one might choose to commit to. But I also fill that it is not, in any way, required.

EDIT: Sorry - switched my players...now I've got them straight.

[edit on 11-16-2005 by Valhall]



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:13 PM
link   
Where did this great argument take place between Paul and Peter?



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:23 PM
link   
Hi,

The book of Galations in Chapters 2 and 3 are pretty specific that no one
should attempt to meet any part of the law. The righteous must live by faith, not by any works of the law.

The new testament is clear overall that any one who attempts to justify himself by the law must keep the whole law (which no one does). Attempting to keep the law takes us away from the Grace of God through Faith in Jesus Christ.

This includes the fanous 10% tithe discussion. In Matt 23:23, Jesus tells the Pharisees that they kept the tithe part of the law, but should rather have kept the weightier matters of the law. Jesus raised the bar on what we offer to the Lord and said "Unless you renounce all that you have, you cannot be my disciple". We are just stewards now, not owners.

I can elaborate further if anyone is really interested.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:31 PM
link   
I think Acts answers this question quite well:



9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Acts 10:9-15


From that, I'd say no.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 09:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by Bakerstone18
I am a Messianic Jew who attends a Christian Highschool and one of my friends recently asked me why I keep kosher and should she, in turn, do the same according to Scripture. I have just recently started to study this question, but have always assumed, since birth, that, as believer's in Christ, we should all adhere to the kosher laws. I don't really have to much of a bias on this topic yet but would be really greatful if anyone could offer some valid arguments supporting or denying whether or not Christians should keep the kosher laws.

Thanks a lot!!


The bible makes it clear that this isn't something that will keep us out of Heaven or anything. But, out of a desire to please YAHVEH we should obey HIS commands. What really matters is our hearts.

Col 3: 16-17 says don't let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink and in regard or respect of a Shabbat, New Moon celebration or one of the feasts. We can eat unclean food, but if we have a desire to please YAHVEH we might want to eat clean food whenever possible...whenever its not a stumbling block to others. But as for the Shabbat and the Feasts, we should be keeping those; at the same time, we are held acountable only for what we know...



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:20 PM
link   
The 613 commandments are for the jews to keep. all others are not required.
the reason? becuase jews are a seperate nation. Since jews are special we have more commandments to keep. if your mother is jewish then you have to keep the commandments. and one of them is avoiding idolatry. God never said you must be perfect only continually trying to do them. if you become a christian then you put yourself outside of klal yisrael. and therfore you won't be considered part of the jewish community,



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by scienceguy94
The 613 commandments are for the jews to keep. all others are not required.
the reason? becuase jews are a seperate nation. Since jews are special we have more commandments to keep. if your mother is jewish then you have to keep the commandments. and one of them is avoiding idolatry. God never said you must be perfect only continually trying to do them. if you become a christian then you put yourself outside of klal yisrael. and therfore you won't be considered part of the jewish community,


That is all "Oral Torah" (aka Talmud and TRADITIONS OF MEN) not the real TORAH that YAHVEH and YAHSHUA spoke to Moses on Mt Sinai!!



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:48 PM
link   
There is a difference between Talmud Kosher, and Torah Kosher.

You can have cheese with your meat with Torah Kosher.....



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by ArchAngel
There is a difference between Talmud Kosher, and Torah Kosher.

You can have cheese with your meat with Torah Kosher.....


exactly..totally... I was actually talking about that yesterday! cool stuff!

Thats what it means in Col 2:16-17... we should be keeping the Feasts and stuff... but we should not let anyone judge or condemn us in regards to HOW we keep them... hmm



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 11:18 PM
link   
You are incorrect to assume that jesus didn't adhere to the oral law
You have to understand that in his day the oral law was still the oral law and was not written down.
I have to ask you when jesus admonishes do not make your phalactories wide what does that mean to you?
Are you saying that ritual slaughtering is man made?
Why didn't jesus say don't make your phalactories into triangles are dododecahedrons and did you know that the talmud says to annoint a king he must be dipped in the river who in the world was baptised in the jordan?
I can find the source for yo if you want.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 11:26 PM
link   
In a religion course that I took in college, the professor argued there was no longer any need to follow the Kosher restrictions. He based that on his belief that the rules had originated as health regulations......that certain animals were carriers of parasites, so eating those was forbidden. Also certain practices as to keeping the dishes separated also prevented cross contamination and there fore lessened the possibility of food poisoning. Following that line of thought, he said that since the food supply had gotten much more regulated, it had become safer, and there was no longer a need for the strict Kosher beliefs.

It does make sense that as a system of 'food handling' regulations, keeping Kosher would have worked to keep the people healthier....whether they were told it was God's law, or just a health code.

Personally, I wonder if it might not be a good idea to re-introduce some of those old regulations,......not just as an act of piety, but as a health consideration. How often have we had warnings about the contamination of our food supply in recent days?? It might prove to be a practical safeguard....
.



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 07:30 AM
link   
In a word, no.

The Old Testament laws merely foreshadowed Christ's first coming. Those laws were made obsolete the minute Christ died on the tree (even says tree and not cross in the NT). Jesus Himself said He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets.

In the Old Testament days, the seventh-day Sabbath was the sign of God's people. In the New Testament, Christ is our Sabbath--and is now the sign of God's people (Christians). So we're not required to keep one day out of seven (Romans 14:5).

My husband and I were once Worldwide Church of God members, which at one point was like a blend of Seventh-Day Adventism, Mormonism, and JW. So I know all about the clean meats thing. I also know it doesn't apply today.



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 09:46 AM
link   
What about where it was said "I am not come to change the laws, but to fulfill them."? Sounds like we should be. However, the stories of Christ seems to show that we should not be going to the extremes.



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 10:37 AM
link   
I agree with one of the above posters.
There may have been (and still be) reason health wise to observe a type of "Kosher" diet for example.
(By Kosher diet I am not referring necessarily to a diet as defined by Judaism)

I will say from a kabbalistic (sephardic,orthodox background as well as other backgrounds), that if you believe all things have energy and that when you consume food & water, you in turn consume its energy...which affects you, you may want to consider what and how you eat it.

Again, notice I said not just what, but how you eat.
Ever wonder why you bless your food? Just to say thanks all the time to Hashem/God?
Or is it more a quantum physics type deal where you are blessing/changing the molecular structure to benefit you? (check out masaru-emotos work on how words/intent affect water molecules.) www.whatthebleep.com...

This concept helps explain how Paul threw out the need to follow such dietary restrictions.
But if faith/intent is needed then one could well say take your prayers seriously, along with Pauls words that "all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial", and from Jesus "not to tempt the Lord your God."
Meaning basically, "moderation".
This is not a license, per say, to go out and say, "I can now eat only an ice-cream diet because I can bless it and change its molocules to fit my bodies nutrional needs."
If someone was of this menatlity they probably are not at the level where they could exert that much power/intent to do such a task anyway.

A note about masaru-emoto. In a film called "what the bleep", it was mentioned that If thoughts/words/intent can change the structure of water molocules, then what can thoughts do to ourselves as we are primarily made up of water.

Now Christians can dismiss the source as new-age, etc. Thats fine, I respect that, but the info is there to look at. We do know that strong emotions can change/effect the bio chemistry of the body, so the above concept fits perfectly within this thought line.

So there you have it.

Gods Peace

dAlen



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 12:39 PM
link   
Does God change?
Does God change his laws?
If so then why would God break agreements?



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 01:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by scienceguy94
Does God change?
Does God change his laws?
If so then why would God break agreements?


- Who is God?
- do we know God? (This is the whole meaining of YHVH in Judaism. Its the cry of who is God that we can know him? We can only see him through his attributes, hense we have the tree of life which we are warned not to mistake the attributes as God, thus making an idol.)
- do we fully understand why and how the agreements are made?
- do we have the full picture?

Gods Peace

dalen



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 01:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by scienceguy94
Since jews are special we have more commandments to keep. if your mother is jewish then you have to keep the commandments. and one of them is avoiding idolatry. God never said you must be perfect only continually trying to do them. if you become a christian then you put yourself outside of klal yisrael. and therfore you won't be considered part of the jewish community,


When we label ourselves as special, we denote that the other is not special.
Now this gives rise to all sorts of potential anti-semetic responces.

As one of my rabbis has said, "Only Moses knows who the true Jew is"
This is about accurate. This is one reason people cant figure out if judaism is a religion or race, or both.
Cause by race, well we have the quote above, and if religion only, well that poses a problem for the religion itself.

Well, Im sure Hashem/God would have his special people treat others as special to,
otherwise, whats the point?


Gods Peace to all

dalen



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 01:44 PM
link   
[quote

When we label ourselves as special, we denote that the other is not special.
Now this gives rise to all sorts of potential anti-semetic responces.

theres nothing fun about not eating cheeseburgers, doing this doing that,
gentiles should be happy that they don't have some rabbi harping on them do do silly stuff like this.



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 01:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by scienceguy94
[quote
theres nothing fun about not eating cheeseburgers, doing this doing that,
gentiles should be happy that they don't have some rabbi harping on them do do silly stuff like this.


good one


Are you familiar with the concept of Reincarnation within Judaism?
(no Im not talking about some fringe of Judaism, not to many years ago it was hard to find a rabbi who didnt believe this. Now its pretty much stuck with our chassidic brothers/sisters, and they are suprised when another Jew knows about this.)

There is a book called Sefer HaGilgulim (Gates of Reincarnation) that you may find interesting.
A partial verision can be found at kabbalaonline.org (they are busy translating it or whatever.)

If anything this could be of interest to Christians to, as it explains the levels of the soul.
Paul talks of being here on earth, but being seated with God at the same time.
This is no metaphor my Christian brothers/sisters, Paul was speaking basic kabbalistic principles.
He was a rabbi, he would have known this. (Also, I know a prominent Baptist pastor personally who believes Paul really meant what he said, but has no clue how its possible. Its called understanding the technology of the soul.) Gnostics I believe also hold a belief in reincarnation, and certain new testament scriptures definitely hold sayings that support reincarnation.

Anyway, as for the no cheeseburger rule, take courage, this is what your soul needed to grow I guess, thats why you chose it. When the time comes, you may be able to eat your cheeseburger.
As for me, Im a practical vegetarian by choice. If I was told to be a vegetarian, I would have probably have hated it and purposely eaten pork.
The point is, I cant quite get my point out, except to say, be easy on yourself.
(I know, I know, the rabbi, get your rabbi to bless your cheesebuger everynight and he will eventually change his mind.


Gods Peace

dalen

[edit on 17-11-2005 by dAlen]



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join