Largest Ozone Hole Ever

This is certainly not good...

I read a scifi book several years ago about the ozone hole growing to about this level, and then suddenly sliding over the equatorial regions with devestating results...

Wonder how close that book was to reality?

LONDON (Reuters) -- The gaping, man-made hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica has hit record proportions for this time of year and could get bigger still within the next few days, a leading scientist said on Friday.

At just short of 28 million square kilometers, the hole is a fraction under the absolute record of 28.5 million, but it has historically peaked in the second week in September and therefore could theoretically grow further, British Antarctic Survey (BAS) scientist Jonathan Shanklin told Reuters.

"It was the largest it has ever been during August, and we are waiting to see what happens over the next few days," Shanklin told Reuters by telephone from BAS headquarters in Cambridge.

www.cnn.com...

Sometimes I get the feeling dragonrider lays ozone holes as traps for the unwitting, who may venture forth and profess on global warming and CFCs and the damage being done... only to be shot down in flames by experts who say for the Bush administration that "Pollution is good! We are for smog!"

Therefore I venture carefully into such topics, and suggest a good dose of

"global warming CFCs" googling.

Very interesting results.

[Edited on 12-9-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Sometimes I get the feeling dragonrider lays ozone holes as traps for the unwitting, who may venture forth and profess on global warming and CFCs and the damage being done... only to be shot down in flames by experts who say for the Bush administration that "Pollution is good! We are for smog!"

Therefore I venture carefully into such topics, and suggest a good dose of

"global warming CFCs" googling.

Very interesting results.

[Edited on 12-9-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

I assume you are complaining largely about the previous thread regarding carbon dioxide as a pollutant/non-pollutant.

Please bear in mind that we are then discussing two very different items.

Carbon Dioxide is a byproduct to combustion, as well as a by product of normal life processes. Carbon Dioxide is NOT an ozone-depleting compound.

Choloro Flouro Carbons (CFCs) ARE ozone depleting, as in the upper atmosphere, they break down in the presence of UV radiation, releasing chlorine, that effectively acts to break down ozone molecules.

I NEVER said that CFCs were not pollution. I do agree that they sould be well regulated, and indeed, in many applications, could be effectively replaced by carbon dioxide

dragonrider

Yes, that was one of the threads.

The other was some weeks back (sorry I don't remember the detail) and it basically was, in support of Bush environmental policy, a deunking of the global warming theory and a counterintuitive statement about why burning of fuels and pollution are supposed to be good for the stability of atmospheric conditions.

I put no stock at all in that latter one.

In general, I do not believe, support, or put stock in the global warming/greenhouse effect theory. There simply is not enough evidence to support it, as every piece of evidence has an equal and opposite piece of evidence to the contrary attached to it.

Please understand, global warming and the ozone hole are NOT the same theory, and in fact are totally unrelated, as they function (or in the case of global warming, do not function) by completely different mechanisms, and due to totally different pollutants (or supposed pollutants).

The ozone hole is indeed very well documented and the mechanism for its formation is well known. It also has nothing to do with carbon dioxide production.

While I do not believe that large scale combustion is the cause for "global warming" I never did say or support that it was "good or stabilizing for the environment". For the record, I don't believe that any credible or comprehensive research, unattached to a poltical agenda, has been conducted for that particular theory.

The links are good, easy reads for the alternative view to dragonrider's.

I don't have a fixed position on this scientifically at all, but I know that the US environmental policy and its lack of subscription to tenets held by the rest of the civilised world is just one big stink. Literally.

www.monitor.net...

www.davidsuzuki.org...

www.osearth.com...

www.discoverychannel.co.uk...

dragonrider

I hope all goes well with your visit today and good health to all in your family.

The links above are rather elementary, and any reference to CO2 links to the greenhouse effect and global warming might be easily (or not so easily) rebutted. There is no value free science, and taking the opposite point of view has some political and short term economic gain loading behind it.

The point of the links is to give readers who are not so familiar with precisely what gases make up the greenhouse effect, some first hand exposure to readable material on them. The illustrations in one of the links aren't bad, either.

But British Antarctic Survey (BAS) scientists monitoring its progress are not unduly alarmed - in fact, they see the observations as good news.

They believe the hole is nearing its peak size, and will soon start to shrink as the level of the ozone-depleting CFC pollutants in the atmosphere diminishes.

icwales.icnetwork.co.uk...=13402929_method=full_siteid=50082_headline=-Biggest-ozone-hole-not-all-bad-news-name_p age.html

Sometimes I just wonder about these guys in the field...

I had to chime in a bit on this as the global warming theory is one of my big pet peeves. While I do acknowledge the Ozone hole and the CFCs that cause it, I agree with dr that it is a separate problem than the alledged global warming. In fact, I do not put forth that increased levels of C02 are beneficial to the planet as the amount present in the atmosphere is but about .04%. Now that .04% is important and is part of the mechanism that allows life sustained on Earth but I will just say that this 300 year period of warming that we have seen since the little Ice Age at the end of the middle ages has preceeded the rise in CO2 not been the result of it. Ah heck, here's the link. I've ran with this one so much, I might as well have a desktop link.


www.cfa.harvard.edu...

Recent satellite images reveal that the ozone hole had shrunk considerably compared with the previous two years. Scientists caution that the data are insufficient to conclude that the fragile ozone layer is on the mend.

Seems to me that all this OZONE BS is just that. I have been reading things like this for a few years now.

Ozone Shrinkage

Ozone Info

From an Oct 99 review

Not to mention all of these other links

I was just browsing NOAA looking at pics of the horriblecane when I happened upon this story.

NEW STUDY SHOWS OZONE-DEPLETING BROMINE NOW ON DECLINE

www.noaanews.noaa.gov...

One of the ozone layer�s most destructive attackers�bromine�is decreasing in the lower atmosphere, according to NOAA researchers. They attribute the decline of total bromine primarily to international restrictions on industrial production of methyl bromide.

Global industrial production of methyl bromide has declined in recent years in response to restrictions outlined in the amended Montreal Protocol, say the researchers. The Montreal Protocol, which limits production of ozone-damaging compounds, was originally signed by the United States and 22 other nations in 1987, and has been strengthened through revisions and amendments since then.

Well, finally something positive from a environmental program... the kicker is, it was signed under a rebublican president. What the hell does a Bush care about the Ozone layer?

The NOAA scientists were able to discern this reversal in the long-term upward trend for bromine based on their ground-based measurements of methyl bromide and halons over the past eight years at 10 stations across the globe, including Cape Grim, Tasmania; the South Pole; Mauna Loa, Hawaii; and Barrow, Alaska. Methyl bromide and halons together account for nearly all of the human-released bromine that reaches the stratosphere. These results are an example of the unique benefits a comprehensive coordinated global observing system provide, as envisioned at the recent U.S. sponsored Earth Observation Summit held in Washington, D.C.

Hey what do you know..an environmental summit which might accomplish something other than keeping Africans in poverty to "preserve their culture".