FEMA asked firefighters and ems to not to respond

First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities
Release Date: August 29, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-174

WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

FEMA memo link This is another stunner. Nice emergency management, people. These things must be explained. If this happened in another country, we would call it war crimes- the actions taken (and not taken) in New Orleans violate the Geneva conventions- nations are required to treat their enemies better than America treats it's citizens.

"Captured medical personnel or members of the Red Cross or other aid organizations must be allowed to periodically visit prisoners of war in labor units or hospitals outside the camp." Convention I, Art. 28a

Originally posted by Rise and Fall
WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

FEMA memo link This is another stunner. Nice emergency management, people. These things must be explained. If this happened in another country, we would call it war crimes- the actions taken (and not taken) in New Orleans violate the Geneva conventions- nations are required to treat their enemies better than America treats it's citizens.

"Captured medical personnel or members of the Red Cross or other aid organizations must be allowed to periodically visit prisoners of war in labor units or hospitals outside the camp." Convention I, Art. 28a

I think you're taking it out of context and missing the point of this.

WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

“The response to Hurricane Katrina must be well coordinated between federal, state and local officials to most effectively protect life and property,” Brown said. “We appreciate the willingness and generosity of our Nation’s first responders to deploy during disasters. But such efforts must be coordinated so that fire-rescue efforts are the most effective possible.”

The above means, they don't want a 'freelance' crew to respond to an area and then have another crew respond to the same area -- that second crew (which is part of the coordinated effort) could have been used elsewhere and possibly saved lives. It not only wastes money it wastes lives.

And those crews that respond to areas on their own could also become part of the disaster and further drain resources away as they themselves require rescue.

“It is critical that fire and emergency departments across the country remain in their jurisdictions until such time as the affected states request assistance,” said U.S. Fire Administrator R. David Paulison. “State and local mutual aid agreements are in place as is the Emergency Management Assistance Compact and those mechanisms will be used to request and task resources needed in the affected areas.”

If everyone feels compelled to rush to the disaster area who remains behind to deal with local fires, accidents, and potential smaller disasters? Along the North East coast of the US we already see Canadian SAR and Coast Guard aircraft and ships filling roles for American craft which have redeployed to the disaster area. Without previously requesting the Canadians, would those vessels and aircraft have been wise to move to the disaster (leaving their areas of responsibility unprotected)? I don't think you'd say yes if you were a fisherman off the coast of Maine in a boat that needed rescue, or the parent of a child that fell into a New Hampshire river and needed rescue.

I do not see anything wrong with sensible planning and forethought. Yes, there is a really bad disaster in the US right now. Yes it's bigger than most people understand (90,000 square miles). But first responders can't just abandon the rest of the nation and it's 270 million people to rush off to try and help if they aren't requested to.

[edit on 8-9-2005 by CatHerder]

Originally posted by CatHerder

Originally posted by Rise and Fall
WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

FEMA memo link This is another stunner. Nice emergency management, people. These things must be explained. If this happened in another country, we would call it war crimes- the actions taken (and not taken) in New Orleans violate the Geneva conventions- nations are required to treat their enemies better than America treats it's citizens.

"Captured medical personnel or members of the Red Cross or other aid organizations must be allowed to periodically visit prisoners of war in labor units or hospitals outside the camp." Convention I, Art. 28a

I think you're taking it out of context and missing the point of this.

WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

“The response to Hurricane Katrina must be well coordinated between federal, state and local officials to most effectively protect life and property,” Brown said. “We appreciate the willingness and generosity of our Nation’s first responders to deploy during disasters. But such efforts must be coordinated so that fire-rescue efforts are the most effective possible.”

The above means, they don't want a 'freelance' crew to respond to an area and then have another crew respond to the same area -- that second crew (which is part of the coordinated effort) could have been used elsewhere and possibly saved lives. It not only wastes money it wastes lives.

And those crews that respond to areas on their own could also become part of the disaster and further drain resources away as they themselves require rescue.

“It is critical that fire and emergency departments across the country remain in their jurisdictions until such time as the affected states request assistance,” said U.S. Fire Administrator R. David Paulison. “State and local mutual aid agreements are in place as is the Emergency Management Assistance Compact and those mechanisms will be used to request and task resources needed in the affected areas.”

If everyone feels compelled to rush to the disaster area who remains behind to deal with local fires, accidents, and potential smaller disasters? Along the North East coast of the US we already see Canadian SAR and Coast Guard aircraft and ships filling roles for American craft which have redeployed to the disaster area. Without previously requesting the Canadians, would those vessels and aircraft have been wise to move to the disaster (leaving their areas of responsibility unprotected)? I don't think you'd say yes if you were a fisherman off the coast of Maine in a boat that needed rescue, or the parent of a child that fell into a New Hampshire river and needed rescue.

I do not see anything wrong with sensible planning and forethought. Yes, there is a really bad disaster in the US right now. Yes it's bigger than most people understand (90,000 square miles). But first responders can't just abandon the rest of the nation and it's 270 million people to rush off to try and help if they aren't requested to.

[edit on 8-9-2005 by CatHerder]

Catherder your faith in the current US government is overwelmingly trustworthy, your objective critical view so narrow.
All you do is counter the people who are critical of this goverment and never ever do you let your keen mind loose on the negative side of this goverment (although negative maybe wrong choice of words because i see no positive points) .
Whats up with that??

Originally posted by motionknight
Catherder your faith in the current US government is overwelmingly trustworthy, your objective critical view so narrow.

Guess what? They're all GONE in 3 years. And guess what then? You, and everyone who talks like you, will then turn and bash the new administration and forget all about "the evil Bush and company" people. Amazing how that works...

People have been hollering about the "Neo cons" and the "Elite" and (more recently, since the fiction novels came out) the "Illuminati" for well over three decades now. Holy crap those neo-cons/Elite move slow, what a bunch of incompetent boobs. Surely by now they should have all of you in cages and be poking you with sticks to make you type faster. Nevermind that all the "Evil" powermongers from the 60's, 70's and 80's that were supposedly taking over the world and subverting it with their oppresive goals are now all soiling themselves in nursing homes or are dead from old-age. They either are/were all utter failures or they simply didn't exist at the fantasy level you adhere to.

All you do is counter the people who are critical of this goverment and never ever do you let your keen mind loose on the negative side of this goverment (although negative maybe wrong choice of words because i see no positive points) .

I never specifically counter anyone that is critical of the government. I counter people who have opinions and ideas that are not well thought out. If you want to bash Bush and his people knock yourself out. But if you want to post something on a public forum that is nonsense, be prepared to called on the bull#.

Whats up with that??

I'm rational?

If you read anything in this sub-forum regarding the failure of the Bush administration and other government departments, regarding the failure to follow advice from numerous sources to improve the levees and preserve the wetlands, you'd see that I'm not a big fan of the government in that regard.

But then, I'm from Canada where our Prime Minister can stay in power for the remainder of his lifetime once he's in office -- IF the voters choose keep him there. Amazing how in our country, where a political leader doesn't have a maximum 8 year term (or 10 for a suceeded VP), we don't view our government as some evil subversive entity. If we don't like them, we complain about them for a few years and then vote their asses out of office when the next election fomes around (every 3-5 years).

Coordinated effort?!

FEMA?!

Coordinated effort?!

FEMA, those in charge of FEMA, HOMELAND inSECURITY and the Bush administration are responsible for and guilty of GENOCIDE. By incompetence. By negligence. By Malice. Call it whatever you want. They did this willfully. They should be held to account. They will one day, if not here.

[edit on 9/8/05 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Coordinated effort?!

FEMA?!

Coordinated effort?!

FEMA, those in charge of FEMA, HOMELAND inSECURITY and the Bush administration are responsible for and guilty of GENOCIDE. By incompetence. By negligence. By Malice. Call it whatever you want. They did this willfully. They should be held to account. They will one day, if not here.

I'm very curious. How would you deal with a 90,000 square mile disaster area? I see lots of people screaming bloody murder but I've yet to see somebody step up with the perfect solution to the disaster (even with 8 days of hind-sight). The government, and the President, have said many times that it wasn't a perfect response, that there were many failures, that it needed a lot of improvement. And all through this they've rescued how many people? On Aug 30th, there were over 75,000 people in 240 shelters across the region. By September 3rd, 250 shelters in nine states, were housing more than 100,000 evacuees. By September 7th there were 47,000 rescues and 234,400 people housed in 750 shelters. How many are there now? How many rescues have there been?

My government officials and leaders are human beings, complete with ticks and warts; I suppose you elect entities that are somewhat closer to supreme beings in the US? For every person rescued I'm happy, for every person who lost their life it's definitely a tragedy. But a crime of genocide?

Wow, Catherder, I hardly know how to respond to one of such breathtaking faith and naivety. It's like disillusioning a nun.
Well, sorry.
This disaster was expected, predicted, and responses were planned.
It was so entirely predictable, that a hurricane over Cat. 3 would eventually pass over the city, and the resultant devastation so common knowledge, that anyone calling the disaster "breathtaking in its surprise," as Chertoff has or that "I am satisfied with the response.", as Bush did is clearly being deliberately (and infuriatingly) ignorant - at best. At worst, and I think we can at least expect intelligence of a kind in our leaders, this has been negligence on a criminal scale.
You say
"How would you deal with a 90,000 square mile disaster area? I see lots of people screaming bloody murder but I've yet to see somebody step up with the perfect solution to the disaster (even with 8 days of hind-sight). The government, and the President, have said many times that it wasn't a perfect response, that there were many failures, that it needed a lot of improvement. "
(sorry, don't know how to do the quote in a box thing)
Well, if ANY of the original disaster planning, the planning done after the scare of Hurricane Ivan, when Mayor Nagin said "In an evacuation, buses would be dispatched along their regular routes throughout the city to pick up people and go to the Superdome, which would be used as a staging area. From there, people would be taken out of the city to shelters to the north", had been carried out, or maybe the budget for repairing and bolstering the levee systen hadn't been cut, due to the costs of waging the unjust war in Iraq, this vast tragedy wouldn't have taken the massive toll of human lives that it has. The massive FEMA exercise undertaken, with the ficticious Hurricane Pam hitting New Orleans, an exercise completed in 2004, led to the development of disaster management plans for the region- none of which were implemented. Not sure if you know, but there are 25,000 body bags headed to the region.
I don't think that that's a number to defend.

Why did the gov wait ?