The End Times

Religion does not play as much of a part of my life as it should, but I do study the Bible from time to time and was raised as a conservative Christian. Although I do believe that holy books such as the Bible should not be taken word for word, some of it does carry a lot of weight. Does anyone else out there think that Katrina, the Tsunami in Indonesia and the attacks of 9/11 are signs from someone very powerful that we are in for some huge trouble? I also study history and I can't find any era in my readings that compares to the worldwide chaos we've seen in the past five years. Maybe I'm just a paranoid pessimist.

they also didnt have the internet or the news. tsunamis and hurricanes probably either went unreported or both sides of the globe would be ignorant to the othersides natural distasters. not like today.

on the other hand this very age of communications causes as much as chaos as it reveeals.

Originally posted by blueknight
Religion does not play as much of a part of my life as it should, but I do study the Bible from time to time and was raised as a conservative Christian. Although I do believe that holy books such as the Bible should not be taken word for word, some of it does carry a lot of weight. Does anyone else out there think that Katrina, the Tsunami in Indonesia and the attacks of 9/11 are signs from someone very powerful that we are in for some huge trouble? I also study history and I can't find any era in my readings that compares to the worldwide chaos we've seen in the past five years. Maybe I'm just a paranoid pessimist.

First off, what convinces you that religion should play more of a role in your life? Why do you feel that way? Is it because others convinced you of it? Or do you know something that the rest of us do no not?

Like the first response mentioned, these disasters did most certainly occur. However, the population has been increasing, and with it death toles. Not to mention the HUGE point about communication.

In reference to "a lot of the bible holds weight": What parts particularly are you referring to? If you do not answer any of the above but one, let this last one be the one you answer.

I'm with NuTroll in this. It is only recently that we've been able to monitor disasters, natural or otherwise, globally. What's interesting, though, is Matthew 24:6-13 (emphasis added):

6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars [never before in the history of humanity has this been as true as it is now, due to global media coverage], but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places [if this is to mean we will be aware of them, the media has exposed all of this to us. However, there have been famines and earthquakes in various places since time began]. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations [never before this time has this been true. The entire world, people on every nation, have been exposed to the gospel through the television and missionaries], and then the end will come.

All of these things exist today, though the betrayal and martyrdom only takes place today in a few countries. I suspect (but do not know) that this persecution will be far more rampant, as it was in Nero's time. So the question is, how long will these birth pains last? The problem with these heralds of the end times is stated in First Thessalonians 5:2:

for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

We just don't know, so must always be prepared. It could be that the end will be neigh tomorrow, or in 65,324 years. It could even be longer, or anywhere in between. So my advise in this matter would be to remain vigilant, but let not your heart be troubled.

actually in my biblical opinion the first part of your post is correct. the second is not.

the parable of the fig tree dictates that the creation of isreal in 1948 has now limited us to the last generation. therefor it will occur before either 40, 70, or 120 years. (a generation). the very latest it could occur is 2068.

Originally posted by NuTroll
actually in my biblical opinion the first part of your post is correct. the second is not.

the parable of the fig tree dictates that the creation of isreal in 1948 has now limited us to the last generation. therefor it will occur before either 40, 70, or 120 years. (a generation). the very latest it could occur is 2068.

Could you explain how? Rather, how you interpret the parable of the fig tree to dictate the creation of Israel? I've not heard that parallel drawn before, and am insterested to hear it!

ok let me start with this

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

obviously matt 24 is talking about the LAST generation.

www.angelfire.com...

there is also an OT verse about the judah only planting to back this up. keep u2uing me if i forget.

That link was interesting, but the author made some rather large leaps of logic and seemed to ignore some other verses that challenge his or her belief.

Luke 21:29-30 has a slightly different spin on this same parable that seemingly was ignored by the author. I'll quote the NIV and KJV, since it appears you prefer the KJV. I just find the NIV easier to understand because it uses modern English.

NIV:

29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near.

KJV:

29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

According to Wikipedia, "[a] parable is a story in prose or verse that is told to illustrate a religious, moral or philosophical idea." This holds true with the other parables of Christ; he used stories to better help people understand reality. In this situation, he is speaking to those 4 disciples of the end times. What is interesting here is in Mark it says, "and all the trees;" (KJV). Almost as though he was using a reference to trees so as to say, when these signs come to pass (leaves), you know the end is coming. Kind of like saying, "Look guys, you know that when you see leaves sprouting on the trees, summer is here. So, too, when these signs come to pass, you know the Kingdom of God is close at hand."

Luke 21:31 follows along this line of reasoning. From the KJV:

31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

He draws the parable of the tree to seeing these things he was just talking about coming to pass.

Matthew 24:34 (NKJV)

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

This statement gives fuel to the belief that the coming of the Kingdom of God has already been. All these things mentioned had taken place by 70A.D. However, we know that the coming of the Lord is a messianic prophesy. If you look back at many of the messianic prophesies, you'll notice they seem to have duel meanings. Many of the prophesies were partly fulfilled in David, but were fulfilled as well in Christ's coming. David fulfilled several, but Christ fulfilled them all. So, too, could this be one of those. It depends on how one adds emphasis to the word "this" in "this generation. Was "this" generation the one he was speaking to, or the one experiencing the events he said would pass? Could it be both?

[edit on 9-6-2005 by junglejake]

Here is another interpretation of the Fig Tree.....Found in Luke/

Among the Jewish people, the legend of Achicar (fifth century BC) was preserved, which the majority of Christ's contempo­raries knew. Therein, such words are found: "My son, thou art like the tree which did not give fruit, in spite of the fact that it grew next to a spring. Its owner was forced to cut it down. The tree said to him: 'Transplant me, and if I do not bear fruit in the new place either, then cut me down'. In reply, the owner said: 'When thou didst stand next to the water, thou didst not bear fruit. Why then should fruit appear on thy branches if thou shouldest stand in a different place?'" Jesus used this well­known folk tale in His parable, giving it a different ending. Here the request is not declined.

In the parable of the barren fig tree, God's longsuffering toward the chosen people, who occupy a special position, just as the fig tree in the vineyard, is underscored. The vineyard symbolizes the whole world and all its peoples.

again ///
The very same thought is expressed symbolically by the Saviour in the cursing of the barren fig tree that took place not long before His passion (Matthew 21:18­20, Mark 11:12­14; 20­21).

more

The fig tree also appears in Revelation....

13. "And the stars fell to the earth." The falling of the stars are the faithful who are troubled for Christ's sake.

"Even as a fig-tree casteth her untimely figs." The fig-tree, when shaken, loses its untimely figs - when men are separated from the Church by persecution.

14. "And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up." For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.

SIXTH CHAPTER

What is a parable?

Since the time of the primitive Christian Church, parable has been the term for a story told by the Lord Jesus Christ to illustrate His teaching. The Greek root-word, parabole, means comparison.
So a parable is a spiritual lesson of a story developed by comparison to everyday life. The Lord's parables draw memorable details from nature, human, social, economic, or religious life of His time.
Characteristically, all oral teachers of the eastern cast of mind teach by comparisons and riddles, using homely images to stir curiosity and reflection. So His parables use images from life in this world to discover spiritual truth.
The Savior also told sacred insights in parables for three practical reasons. First, His parables were hard for many listeners to grasp, but His listeners could recall the vivid details from ordinary life long enough to discover the wisdom behind the allegory.
Second, the Lord Jesus Christ told parables to make men expect a double meaning, and to make them want to discover the fullness of the divine plan for their conversion.
Because the Church and Kingdom that our Lord founded differ so sharply from the Jewish expectation of the Messiah at that time, that the Lord's teaching had to be cautious and indirect. His parables use allegory to compare the recognizable world to the start, development, mixed character, and final triumph of Church and Kingdom.

Gospel parables,
Holy Week of the Passion.......
The Orthodox church ''On Holy and Great Monday''read the parable of the barren fig tree. It is the symbol of those who think only of outward goodness which does not come from the heart. The Gospel also tells about Christ’s prophecies about the fall of Jerusalem, wars and tribulations, and the end of the world.

As we approach the great solemn days of Holy Week, we bring to mind how our Lord Jesus Christ was betrayed and seized, tortured and crucified, died and was buried, and arose from the dead. The services of Holy Week, beginning with Lazarus Saturday, show us in symbols, readings and chants the account of our Saviour’s love and sacrifice "unto death, even the death of the cross" for our sake (Phil. 2:8).
www.holyfire.org...
IX
helen

[edit on 9/6/2005 by helen670]

the this generation is addressed in the subject of matthew 24. re read verse 3.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

so the "THIS" generation has to be referring to the generation at the end of the world. (at the time of the end before i return the generation of the fig tree will shoot forth its roots. THIS generation will not... etc...).

the entire parable of the fig tree goes back to gen 3 at the start of all this. the good figs of jer 24 will stay on the tree covering the nakedness, the bad of jer 24 will be the untimely ones shaken off, revealing the spiritual nakedness of people in the end times.

The prophesy of Jeremiah 24 has already been fulfilled. It was very specific, referring to the Jew's exile to Babylon. The figs were also in baskets, not on trees, and it even makes reference to the good ones being the ones who ripen early (thereby being picked early).

Jer 24:1-2 (NIV)

1 After Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the craftsmen and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the LORD showed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the LORD. 2 One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very poor figs, so bad they could not be eaten.

It could be believed that this could also be a future prophecy, as Revelations makes reference to Babylon.

As to Matthew 24:3, at the start of the chapter, Jesus predicts the fall of the temple. He says that not one stone will be standing. The disciples may have interpreted this to mean the end of the world, and they took him aside. What is interesting is the NIV translation:

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

The NIV translates it as age, not day. This, naturally piqued my interest and I looked into what the Greek word was and why the discrepancies in translations. The Greek word used it "aion". Unfortunately I was not able to find any sites that addressed this by presenting both sides of the issue. Most were eschatology sites that tried to present their interpretation instead of presenting both sides and letting you decide the correct interpretation. I'll keep looking to see if I can find something that presents both sides fairly.

In the mean time, would you be able to flesh out how you interpreted Genesis 3 and Jeremiah 24 as predictive of the end times?

Originally posted by blueknight
Religion does not play as much of a part of my life as it should,

As sight2reaity alluded, why should you?

Originally posted by blueknight
but I do study the Bible from time to time and was raised as a conservative Christian.

Have you ever read it cover to cover? If you haven't done that at least a couple of times, you haven't studied it.

Originally posted by blueknight
Although I do believe that holy books such as the Bible should not be taken word for word, some of it does carry a lot of weight.

If you know it is proper to discount parts of it, why is it not proper to discount all of it? What do you find compelling in it?

Originally posted by blueknight
Does anyone else out there think that Katrina, the Tsunami in Indonesia and the attacks of 9/11 are signs from someone very powerful that we are in for som huge trouble? I also study history and I can't find any era in my readings that compares to the worldwide chaos we've seen in the past five years.

Surely you've read about the black plague? From a comparative perspective, what we've seen in the last 5, or even the last 500 years doesn't compare to that.