Athiests say Don't Pray for Disaster Victims

I dont mind if people pray just dont expect me to. The only problem I would have with praying is that if people pray and dont take any action to improve the situation. Prayering wont do anything to make the current situation better apart from settling a few consciences and for some strange reason make religious people feel better.

Putting aside the religious aspect if praying helps the US heal then so be it.

I'm more apt to say go with the whole package deal (prayer and aid).

I don't see what benefit it is to let a biased ego get in the way and say prayer has no effect, considering humanity still doesn't understand a lot about consciousness.

Health & Healing:Reflections on Consciousness, Physics, & Spirituality
www.swcp.com...

Consciousness and Physics
www.halexandria.org...

'Healing power of prayer revealed'
news.bbc.co.uk...

Prayer 'works as a cure'
news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 10-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by xpert11
Prayering wont do anything to make the current situation better apart from settling a few consciences and for some strange reason make religious people feel better.

Sad some have never witnessed how powerful prayer truly is.

It's moot of course, there is no way to convince someone against this attitutde. Luckily it is just as certain you cannot convince those that do see more merit to prayer than mentioned above, that is all there is.

I think the point of the story is that what we can do to help the people is send stuff, whether it be goods or money. Prayer is fine, but it does seem to me that in some cases at least, this disaster is being 'used' once again as a reason to push religion as the political party of the future.

“It’s unconstitutional for government officials to be promoting religion; and besides, judging from the speed of some relief efforts, officials should be busy working instead of preaching.”

Not once does the article say "Don't Pray for the the Disaster Victims". Go ahead and pray if you want, but send real, tangible relief as well. They need food and water immediately, not bibles.

Isn't there something (in the bible or somewhere) about being generous , but not boastful about it? This religious-based show of support for the victims that the article speaks of reminds me of someone boasting about their contributions. And that's just eeewww.

Pray. Pray all day and all night if you want, but send that package out.

Edit: Upon re-reading my post, it sounded a bit snippy, so I edited those areas.

[edit on 10-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

How many people do you think would survive if we had only sent prayer to the disaster victims? It is food and water that is saving these people not prayer. Prayer may give them emotional relief if they are religious but it will not save them without food or water.

IMO, the food, the water, the supplies and physical aid, will arrive to those who need it. There are many many drives going on and response has been overwhelming.

But are you hearing about sending any counsellors, physchologists, therapists being sent to provide the emotional aid that people need?

Emotional and pyschological issues are on the back burner right now, but they can't stay on the back burner forever, they must be dealt with.

I'm not a propronent of any one religion, but I realize that there are benefits to having priests, nuns, monks, whatever available to these people who feel lost and need emotional and spiritual guidance.

Im going to talk to the sky and hope things get better....

Its nonsense, reality will have to intrude from time to time, sometimes materials goods are more use than imaginary friends.

I haven't read all replies....so excuse me if I repeat anything. This is among some of the best bull$#@% I've heard yet! How utterly ridiculous! Of course these people need food, water, shelter, and clothing...I don't think anyone said they didn't However, why can't they receive these things and prayer too!? Is it hurting anyone? No...... Who do these people think they are to suggest so? It's also a way for some people. those that are poor themselves, to do something...not everyone can give, but still feel the pain and devastation...my goodness are these people full of themselves!

“It’s unconstitutional for government officials to be promoting religion; and besides, judging from the speed of some relief efforts, officials should be busy working instead of preaching.”

Where is this in the Constitution?

www.usconstitution.net...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I sure don't see it here.

Whoever Ellen Johnson is, needs to get the facts straight. The President isn't trying to pass a law, just asking for prayer isn't unconstitutional.

[edit on 10-9-2005 by simtek 22]

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I have to agree, reason.....

Tho I am not an Athiest, I do agree god has nothing to do with this situation. It is up to the people to fix the problem.

Why go watch the Futurama episode where Bender becomes god for a short period of time..

Notice how everytime he did something to help out, people got screwed. Same thing here.

Point being is instead of praying that energy can be used for more useful things like actually helping out. Or giving food, Clothes, and anything else to the people down there, or even some of your time.

First off, I have to comment on the concept of using a cartoon as an argument against religion or the power of prayer. In this case, I am going to start using demanding that the Superfriends help the victims of Katrina or else they can just get off of our planet! And I think that I want Superman brought up on charges for not helping the Allies defeat the Nazis during WWII! Heck, I want a senate hearing on why Clark Kent wasn't drafted during WWII, Korean war or the VietNam war. And what about Bruce Wayne? Was he excluded from the draft just because he was wealthy? I hope I've made my point here.

As for prayer being useful, there have been experiments in the power of prayer that have shown that people in hospitals have made better recoveries when prayed for as opposed to those who have not. Besides, the day that the government demands that people stop praying is the day that, as far as I am concerned, the entire constitution becomes invalid and the government should be dissolved. The United States is a country that was founded, in part, by people who were seeking a country that allowed them to practice their religious beliefs without infringements. Believers can believe what they want and those who do not believe are free to do just that.

Fuirthermore, when priests, ministers, rabbis, reverends and evangelists go to aid Katrina victims, they are providing solice and emotional support for these traumatized people. Additionally, the religious congregations that these fine men and women represent, are among the first responders who offer food, water, shelter and general assistance to not only the Katrina victims but to all who are in need. Get a grip. Organized religion, in this country, are an asset in they are truly altruistic in their efforts to give of themselves to help others -- of course, I am excluding the television evangelists who are in the business of religion as they are not necessarily representative of this spirit of charity.

I don't get it. Is god not going to get off his ass and help someone unless another person asks him too? It's like he has to be persuaded.

Originally posted by evildoer
I don't get it. Is god not going to get off his ass and help someone unless another person asks him too? It's like he has to be persuaded.

Keep in mind that man is unable to comprehend God. HE/SHE/IT is simply too complex for us to understand. Can a baby (which we are in comparison to God) understand his/her parents? But, Christians believe that God will intercede and answer their prayers if God so chooses. I would suppose that God certainly has a free will to whatsoever HE/SHE/IT chooses. God can answer the prayers or, conversely, not.

Also remember, God granted mankind a free will as well. Life is, for all intents and purposes, a test. How mankind responds and reacts to disasters and adversity is part of that test.

The president and other such officials electing prayers is a detraction from accountability to the situtation at hand. These 'athiests' as they have been glimpsed at have taken the existentialist conclusion that only man can procure the means to handle this situation, and not leave it at the hands of a few prayers for unaccountability; or, God.

And for the fellow who stated that the athiests have polarized the American society by thier statement, I say by the same token of gratitude, the President has polarized society by his gracious prayers which only perpetualy adhere to his ideologues.

Humans are responsible and accountable for thier actions.

Luxifero


[edit on 10-9-2005 by Luxifero]

Some people may need more moral support, that they can get with someone joining them for a prayer, than material support.
In those cases, someone who goes there to say some prayers with them may help those Katrina victims a lot.

Also, its a easy and quick way to show those people that someone else cares about them, the material support allways gets longer to reach the victims of this kind of disasters.

I, as an atheist, do not care if they send prayers or dolars, as long as those people get some help that themselves see as important, remember that we never know what other people think.

Unfortunately, I can not help those people in any way, so I hope that they get all the help that others may provide.

Prayer has showed positive results in lab settings. If atheists don't pray, fine, but they have no business telling others not to. What if they are wrong and it does have a positive influence? Are they that smart, that they cannot possibly be wrong? Not in my view, and so the fact that they deride, dismiss, and denounce those who pray only shows their own faults. I personally feel strongly that prayer makes a difference, though I do not claim to know why. Also, I feel that all faiths' prayers are valid. No one church has a monopoly on miracles. And miracles are part of my life, though clearly not a part of many others lives, which is perfectly okay to me. I accept their views as valid, and equally real as mine. The fact we differ does not mean one of us has to be wrong, we can all be right.

It was the physics of moisture, temperature and energy interacting on a planetary scale in this material existence of ours.

Atheists, Freethinkers, and Humanists... I'm not sure I fit squarely into only one of those labels.

Raised as a French Roman Catholic, and now with protestant clergy in my family, Religion has played a major role in my life. I acknowledge that, not because I’m a loyal follower of anything, but because breaking away from it's rigid mindset put me on path of mental rebellion and searching.

I am God.

You are God.

We are all God.

Prayer is self-reflection IMO, not communicating with some being outside myself, but I do like to think that positive thoughts can create harmonic effects ("vibes") in the ether of energy we all bathe in.

Does a God pray?

If there is some power beyond the known Universe, I think it lies behind what we know as conscience. Is it unique? Doesn't have to be IMO.

But how we allow it to exist is up to us. Our consciousness gives us control over our lives, our decisions, our actions and interactions. Our collective awareness gives us mastery over the physical world we see around us.

We act and speak.
.

Originally posted by LadyV
I haven't read all replies....so excuse me if I repeat anything.

Should have read the posts...I said the same things.
At least we agree on this..Send food, say a prayer.,

agree, preying won't get you anywhere, if you prey no food or need things just going to appear to the victims, do something!

why cant we pray and help?

i dont believe in God, but that doesnt mean im going aroud tellin people not to pray, this is ridiculous.
You can tell people to get off their lazy arses and do something, but you cant tell them to stop praying. Most atheists' biggest problem with christians is that they try to convert everyone they see into christians. Well now arent we all just hypocrites.

Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

we need all the prayers we can get right now, dont let anyone tell you any different. Though physical help is much better, a littl prayer for us helps as well.

--Kit.

[edit on 10/9/2005 by Kitsunegari]

I can't understand why anyone would attack or discourage prayer, especially at a time like this... Perhaps those doing the deriding of prayer are simply using this to advance their agenda.

Personally, I'm an advocate of it. I have seen prayers of mine answered (whether it was according to my desire or not!). Seeing prayers come to fruition is a powerful thing. Without getting into it, I believe I'm alive and well today b/c of something I gave over to God in prayer about (during Desert Storm). Had I not pulled back those reigns and asked for God's guidance, I probly would've died in a helicopter crash. (I was supposed to be on our first bird that went down in Iraq during the big ground assault.)

Just my two cents.