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Athiests say Don't Pray for Disaster Victims

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posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Atheists, Freethinkers, and Humanists are joining ranks, They want their message to be heard for Bush to stop violating the Constitution. Katrina survivors need material aid, medical care and economic support and not calls for invocations. It is understood by the Athiests, mankind must look to itself for the solutions to its problems and not a diety.
 



www.phxnews.com
“We’re getting reports of how some religion-based ‘aid’ groups are trying to fly evangelists into the stricken areas and how U.S. Army Chaplains are carrying Bibles – not food or water – to ‘comfort’ people at the New Orleans Superdome,” said Ellen Johnson, President of American Atheists. “People need material aid, medical care and economic support – not prayers and preaching.”

Johnson also said that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and President George Bush “should not be violating the Constitution by telling people to pray for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.”

“It’s unconstitutional for government officials to be promoting religion; and besides, judging from the speed of some relief efforts, officials should be busy working instead of preaching.”


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I tend to agree action should take the priority in this disaster, but I also see there's little need to polarize the masses by making statements that can breed apathy. This needs to be a cohesive group effort, if history has shown us anything.

The debate shall continue whether prayer actually works, but are we to implying here that those that are praying are not helping in funding, materials, and supplies? Does prayer or the call to prayer breed inefficiency?



Related News Links:
www.atheists.org
www.americanatheist.org
www.worldnetdaily.com


[edit on 5-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

[edit on 6-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

[edit on 9-9-2005 by asala]




posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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I have to agree, reason.....

Tho I am not an Athiest, I do agree god has nothing to do with this situation. It is up to the people to fix the problem.

Why go watch the Futurama episode where Bender becomes god for a short period of time..

Notice how everytime he did something to help out, people got screwed. Same thing here.

Point being is instead of praying that energy can be used for more useful things like actually helping out. Or giving food, Clothes, and anything else to the people down there, or even some of your time.



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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I'm surprised that "Freethinkers" are lumped in the same category as Atheists. But, I think prayer is supplementary to material support, nevermind, the controversy over whether such acts as these actually do violate the constitution.



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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Praying in situations like this is a very selfish excersize. Wasted energy that could have been used to actually provide material support to the victims. Pray all you like over dinner and such but don't go and gather large prayer groups and stand there for hours and hours wasting time. Yea it makes peopel feel better but you'll feel even better if you actually provide substanstial support. My opinion on this has been stated a few times already, but I care not. It needs emphesizing that Human will not God's will provides a strong survival and cooperative instinct.



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Strange indeed.

We can curse God for what happened but we can't pray to him?
On the other hand why don't we just sue Satan?

How about a class action suit against Beezlebub?

[edit on 5-9-2005 by garyo1954]



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Well I would argue that we need to pray for the atheists also....



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Why does it bug you all so...

Seems to me that if you are a athiest, freethinker, or humanist, you shouldn't care one way or the other.

Unless you are someone that gets embarrassed whenever you see someone praying in public.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:10 PM
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Prayer never hurts, unless you are using it as an excuse to not do anything else.

I sent food, water and prayers.

I hope all three helped



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Good god! You've got to be kidding me.
How long does it take to say a prayer?
Not long at all..right?
What the heck is wrong with asking people to wish the best for the victims, and those who are trying to help..
Could people find anything more insignificant to gripe about?

sheesh..



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
Could people find anything more insignificant to gripe about?

sheesh..


My initial reaction was Waaaaahhh.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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waaaah..
Must be too much oatmeal.


Last week I made a post about sending money instead of prayers..
I think you could do both.
I think prayers are more for the person doing the praying..but whatever..
As a matter of fact, I bet you could pray, and at the same time, fill a sandbag, or
box up a few items of food...or EVEN write a check..while simultaneously praying your butt off..



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Just wanted to say that was a really well written, non-leading, thought provoking opening post Regenmacher on what is certainly a very volatile subject. Good job.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
Praying in situations like this is a very selfish excersize. Wasted energy that could have been used to actually provide material support to the victims. Pray all you like over dinner and such but don't go and gather large prayer groups and stand there for hours and hours wasting time. Yea it makes peopel feel better but you'll feel even better if you actually provide substanstial support. My opinion on this has been stated a few times already, but I care not. It needs emphesizing that Human will not God's will provides a strong survival and cooperative instinct.


Well, for me, it is hard to give any more material support than the money that my wife and I have donated, as well as encouraging others to donate, and write letters to President Chen and others to encourage our government to donate more to a country that has been a good friend of Taiwan's for so long.

As for prayer, you may not agree, but Christians, Protestants and Catholics alike, to think that prayer is of benefit, and so do many people in Louisiana.

For the President to call for a national day of prayer has long precedent and does NOT violate the constitution as he doesn't tell you to say a Baptist prayer, or a Methodist prayer, or an Islamic prayer. I am free to say Hail Mary's if I so desire. You are also free NOT to pray if you don't want to. It isn't MANDATORY.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
Just wanted to say that was a really well written, non-leading, thought provoking opening post Regenmacher on what is certainly a very volatile subject. Good job.



Yep.
I guess I need to add my agreement, that it's the article, and not Regenmacher, that my "rant" was direct towards...



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Speaking as an atheist, I don't have a problem with the president saying that people should pray for the Katrina victims. If some people think praying will make a difference then by all means go ahead an do it. I would only have a problem if the president blamed the storm on god or says that god should be the one to fix the damage, other than that I’m kool with it.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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I bet most people don't even know what prayer is. Athiests should learn to pray too, it doesn't have to be to a god or deity of any kind. While the word prayer is associated with religion, the act of praying itself is not religious as in the sense of worshipping a god, it is more of a ritual. The order in which you do things after rising in the morning is a ritual, same for prayer except on a much higher level.

Prayer/deep thought/reflectiveness provides us an outlet, allows us to tune in others, our own inner selves and our higher selves.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Hmmm ... double post, sorry

[edit on 2005/9/9 by Zadeh Redux]



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Yup, another atheist checks in ... moi.

I think it all depends on what you mean by prayer.

Although dictionary.com says that prayer is about making some request of God, or other deity, or 'object' of worship, I think a legitimate prayer can also be visualizing positive energy ... perhaps directed to the
collective unconscious ... that some people like Teilhard de Chardin labelled the noosphere.

I guess I could consider the noosphere an object of worship ... nah ... lol

I agree with spacedoubt that one ought to be able to say prayers, send positive energy, while helping out in other ways, like writing that check.

Gandhi and many other truly spiritual individuals recognize, too, that freely given service to those in need is in and of itself, prayer of the highest order.

I have found many of my prayers these last two weeks have been in the form of tears.

Anyway, a couple of links:
noosphere.princeton.edu... -kinda cool site, just found it.
www.gaiamind.com...

Peace, friends.
ZR

Edit to add: That's the way I see it, worldwatcher ... I was typing my post while you were posting yours, I think

Edit to add: I don't think the noosphere site is really attached to Princeton though ... handle with care.

[edit on 2005/9/9 by Zadeh Redux]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:03 AM
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ok they were not saying to not pray for the victims they were just saying that they were sending preachers out there instead of food and aid. It would be better if they sent both at the same time instead of just praying and not sending food or water.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
What the heck is wrong with asking people to wish the best for the victims, and those who are trying to help..

It's a nice thought, but it doesn't actually help





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