One of the greatest things U.S. Government has done

Originally posted by andpau66
What is that? Get people thinking that it is 10 or 50 times more powerful then it actually is.

And who can say just how powerful it really is, considering the secretive and compartmentalized nature of it?

Look at this, we can't even have flawed intelligence or make mistakes. If there is a intelligence failure (like Iraq).. its not!

If Iraq was an "intelligence failure", why has the "president" changed his story as to why we're in Iraq about 3-4 times instead of pulling out and admitting it was a mistake? Why did he say Saddam was related to Al Qaeda or 911 with NO EVIDENCE to back it up? Why did he say that Saddam simply "had to go", and who is he to just invade countries whose leaders he does not like? Why did he later claim that we're in Iraq because of 911? And again, why did he invade Iraq without first providing PROOF of the WMD's? Why did he make plans to invade Iraq and Afghanistan even BEFORE 911 happened, BEFORE there was any talk about wmd's?

Perhaps you think 911 too was just another "intelligence failure"? Tell me, when is something NOT an intelligence failure? Because right now the government can claim ANY country has WMD's and is an immediate threat, invade and destroy the country, and then say it was "failure of intelligence" without anyone knowing any better. So at what point would you think the government is lying?

Just the mere fact that after all that happened we're STILL in Iraq killing innocent women and children and imposing our will on that country says that our government never cared for the opinion of the American people or the rest of the world, and still does not. Proof? Evidence? Who needs it when you can make any claim you want and then just say you were "tricked" by those pesky intelligence guys!

Remember that crude drawing on a piece of paper that our government tried to pass off as evidence of Iraq's nuclear program? Yes, that was definitely a "failure of intelligence"....

Its a conspiracy and we did it on purpose. We can never be wrong! We must have did it for our gain and to rule the world or something lol.

Well if we invaded because of wmd's and they are not there, why are we still there?

Can something terrible happen to the U.S. like what happened on 9/11? No! It must have been the government because nothing ever could happen like that to the United States. Conspiracy... it must be all part of the "plan".

No, because all the evidence says it is the government!

Bush messes up on a speech. No! He did it on purpose and it was all done according to the plan. Is there a group of extremists that hate the U.S.? No way, I hear people are now saying its all made up. It must be a secret group created by the U.S. government. Its incredible.

They are not a group of extremists, the entire world is now justified in hating the US after what we have done and keep doing. Unless maybe the rest of the world is just a bunch of crazy extremists...

We are 10 times more powerful in the minds of some people then we will ever be in real life.

And we're 10 times more powerful in real life than most people think we are as well.

I don't know what the government or military could possibly want more.

How about world domination?

I would say the best thing done by America is creating the first major republican government in the world since the fall of the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire.

[edit on 8/16/2005 by djohnsto77]

one of the greatest things the us government has done ............ made a mess of every thing they have ever done

You are the greatest thing the US government has every done, you the US citizen.

To think otherwise is to consider the government to be greater, when in fact it is your servant. Even in that case it is power.

Consider what George Washington once said:

"How soon we forget history... Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

Originally posted by lilblam

If Iraq was an "intelligence failure", why has the "president" changed his story as to why we're in Iraq about 3-4 times instead of pulling out and admitting it was a mistake? Why did he say Saddam was related to Al Qaeda or 911 with NO EVIDENCE to back it up? Why did he say that Saddam simply "had to go", and who is he to just invade countries whose leaders he does not like? Why did he later claim that we're in Iraq because of 911? And again, why did he invade Iraq without first providing PROOF of the WMD's? Why did he make plans to invade Iraq and Afghanistan even BEFORE 911 happened, BEFORE there was any talk about wmd's?

Oh man, sorry. I had no idea you were in those meetings when he planned all this out ahead of time. I did not know. You were there, right? and not just reading that stuff off of a website some 15 year old kid created and actually thinking its true?

Perhaps you think 911 too was just another "intelligence failure"? Tell me, when is something NOT an intelligence failure?

I could ask you the same kind of question. Tell me, when is something a intelligence failure? or a mistake?

So at what point would you think the government is lying?

So, from now on if the government sees a threat from somewhere it has to automatically be them telling a lie to us?

Well if we invaded because of wmd's and they are not there, why are we still there?

Come on, I don't have to tell you, do I? See... when we invaded the country to take out the saddam's government we need to stay and help the people to build another one. We can not just run out and leave everything destroyed and have the country with no kind of new government.

Plus, when we got in there we started getting attacked and still are so we will stay and continue training the new military and police so the country is actually safe.

.....the entire world is now justified in hating the US after what we have done and keep doing. Unless maybe the rest of the world is just a bunch of crazy extremists...

........

How about world domination?

*Begins singing Randy Newman's song Political Science*

No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Now Asia's crowded
And Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And Canada's too cold.
And South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

We'll save Australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-American amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

Well, boom goes London,
And boom Paris.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town.
Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be Italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now.


[edit on 17-8-2005 by andpau66]

Very interesting thread here, especially since its not unlike the idea of "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled on mankind was convincing them he didnt exist". Its amazing what a massive propaganda campagin fueld by nationalism can do to shape the oppinion of people everywhere on all sides of the field.

I'm pretty sure Randy meant this ironically. You know - political satire. It usually means someone is winking along when they are saying 'drop the big one'.

It means...

Oh nevermind.

nikelbee, I don't think anyone looks at the song seriously or anything. Kind of a funny song.

Originally posted by andpau66
Oh man, sorry. I had no idea you were in those meetings when he planned all this out ahead of time. I did not know. You were there, right? and not just reading that stuff off of a website some 15 year old kid created and actually thinking its true?

www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.aljazeera.com...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

The fact that Iraq was was planned well in advance was quoted by members of the Bush administration, including chief UN weapons inspector, Hans Blix, among others. But a real American, like Bush, or yourself apparently, does not need to read the news or use his mind in any way, he knows all there is to know about all things already!

I could ask you the same kind of question. Tell me, when is something a intelligence failure? or a mistake?

When the person does not change their story many times in order to still get what he now obviously wants at any cost and whose friends in high places benefit from it greatly.

If I went in your house and killed your family and then said "ah sorry, I had intelligence that your family were all armed and were going to kill me", would you then say "it's ok, honest mistake". If not, why allow the same thing on a LARGE scale, to invade and destroy an entire nation without any PROOF of any threat?

Also, historically, governments ALWAYS justified wars based on lies by creating imaginary threats - just think back to Nazi Germany. Hitler claimed that attacking and taking over countries around him was important for Germany's national security because they were all threats, including all the communists (who were blamed on the reichstag fire). Of course now we know it was all lies/propaganda, not innocent "intelligence failures".

There is one easy way to tell: Are the people provided with PROOF, or is the government trying to invade other nations on a hunch, expecting its people to just believe every word, when historically all the biggest liars and manipulators of humanity have always been in positions of government, in positions of power - which included the Church when it was in power.

Also, even if Iraq DID have WMD's and we had proof, so what? So do we. What right do we have to dictate to any country to not do what we ourselves do? That's very hypocritical and arrogant. And what about Israel, it has stockpiles of nukes ILLEGALLY and yet we ignore it, and Israel even screams about others in the area also having nukes - why the hypocracy? Let me ask you this now: How many times would you allow your government to invade and occupy other countries and blame it on an intelligence failure, before you said "ENOUGH" and started demanding for PROOF before they invade the next one?

For example, right now they are heating up the propaganda about Iran, the same way they were about Iraq. Would you support another invasion on the basis of some mystical intelligence that no one is allowed to know except the president? What if it's a lie? How can you know if it's not? How many lives have to be lost, American and foreign, before we demand our government to start providing us with proof and evidence?

Do you have any proof or even any evidence that Al Qaeda even exists, that there is any "war on terrorism" even truly happening, that 911 purpetrators are indeed who we're told they are? Because there is mountains of evidence to the countrary of all these things, yet people choose to simply believe their leaders on their word. And again, historically, the more power people held, the more they tended to lie and kill to maintain it. So why should it be any different now, why so easily trust those in power to do "the right thing" instead of demanding accountability?

Come on, I don't have to tell you, do I? See... when we invaded the country to take out the saddam's government we need to stay and help the people to build another one. We can not just run out and leave everything destroyed and have the country with no kind of new government.

But we're destroying MORE things, why not move out the military and bring in the fire fighters, doctors, organizers, and basically everything NON-MILITARY? Because right now we're seen as invaders and occupiers, and ordinary Iraqis are taking up arms to fight us and get us out of their country, because we have no right to occupy it, we're not wanted. The longer we stay, the more people die on both sides, and the more we are hated by Iraq and the world at large.

Again I ask, why are we continuing to kill the very Iraqis whose land we invaded on false premises and continue to occupy? They are only doing what any population of any country would do when an aggressor invaded and occupied them - FIGHT BACK. Would YOU sit there and take it if someone like China invaded and overthrew our government because they don't like it?

Plus, when we got in there we started getting attacked and still are so we will stay and continue training the new military and police so the country is actually safe.

Yes, we started getting attacked - I wonder WHY?! Because we did not come with flowers and candy and kisses, we invaded with guns and bombs to impose our will on the people of that nation - do you expect the population to just lay down and accept our armed invasion and occupation? Again, if someone invaded US because they disagree with our government's way of conducting things in our own country, would you just accept it and smile?

We're not keeping the country safe, we're the reason it is UNSAFE, because we're continually killing innocents as well as armed forces, and we're being shot at BECAUSE we're the enemy, BECAUSE we're the invading army. So when you say the country is actually safe, safe from whom? From us?

[edit on 17-8-2005 by lilblam]

Short and simple: You can't be too careful. Maybe the government really is a bunch of old senile geezers who wish peace unto the world and sit around smoking cigarrettes all day. But then again, people don't know things they feel they should know. This basically causes the paranoia symptom, as well as the fact that the gov't just seems to be off-kilter these days. The government either looks very stupid or very smart these days. Neither is good in the eyes of people.

[edit on 8/17/2005 by Lifeadventurer]

lilblam, i hope any, if one, of your points gets through to him and allows him to see this past his pre-decided mind on the situation.

this war could've been no war at all, just an extraction and a peaceful transition to a new government but we decided to go gun-ho and invade the whole kit and kabodle.

there were various ways to start this off on the right foot but it didn't. the govt. had an agenda and it pushed forward with little resistance and it's still doing so. when are people going to start waking up and criticizing what's going on by the masses?

So if the USA invaded USSR at some point during the Cold War, they would have left after they 'won', without getting rid of the government,and without putting the power in the people's hands.

I don't think so. So why did the US book it out of Iraq? Oh wait, no, they were never in Iraq. They were just there for Kuwait, honest.

Why did the US go into Kuwait alone?

Why did they leave Saddam in power?

So that the rest of the world couldn't have EVEN MORE justification to say that the US is just throwing its weight around,and only paying lip service to freedom?

www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.aljazeera.com...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Ah yes, the most reliable websites.

Heres the problem people make, you read one thing then automatically believe its true. What you need to do is read from other sources (By that, I don't mean go searching up "USdominatestheworldanditsalsoveryevil.com"), try CNN.com, wikipedia.org, FOX (yes FOX), then try aljazeera or the anti-bush sites that so many love. After discovering the difference (and yes you will) make up your mind on which ones more reliable.

People fall victim to false information solely because its what they want to hear (I admit, I fall victim at times. Those are what makes good ratings) , the best thing to do is try and disprove it (only when you believe its a sourced to be questioned, you can usually tell by how its written).