WAR: U.S. Finds Iranian Weapons in Iraq

Iran supplying weapons or explosives to Iraq? Hah! Impossible, I say.

Iran is too busy developing its' nuclear progaram for peaceful, energy needs. They are totally innocent of such blatant lies spread by the west.

I would never suspect Iran of doing such a foul misdeed.

The next thing you know, Syria will be accused of providing a path for insurgents to enter Iraq.

Amuk,

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This has always bugged me.

Our Government says they cant stop millions of illegal Immigrants from crossing our border but they think Syria and Iran can close their borders? They should be able to stop a comparative trickle of what our Government cant?
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Nonsense!

It is _well_ within the 'technical means' of ANY nation to isolate completely the flow of illegal men and materiels to a given society.

Look at any railroad undercut beneath a street or flood control canal in any major city and imagine a similar 50X30ft (wide X tall), system put in place across a given terrain choke.

Particularly if you mine it and put robotic vehicles (such as we have had here at Rocky Flats for the last /20 years/) in the perfectly flat, obstacleless, bottom as a roving patrol, there would be no way to penetrate it.

The sadness is that the Iranians want chaos inside Iraq so that they can isolate it as a future threat and, once we leave, use it as a kind of Laos/Cambodian environment in which to expand across the Western half of the gulf with strict Islamic Fundamentalism.

And the /vector/ by which they do this, freely, is inherent to the HUGE number of Shiite clerics now sitting in the 'democratically elected' parliament. All of who want money and weapons with which to buy their own private armies. 'For when the day comes and only the strongest are left standing...'

ALL OF WHOM have the ability to say no to a proper passage denial lane across the border with whose (national intelligence services) they are sleeping 'one leg off the bed' in getting this money and materiel.

Comparing this to our own 'soft' borders is not fair either because we USE what amounts to ethnic slave labour to do jobs which most Americans don't know exist and/or would refuse if they did. Such being the quiet lie of our society that we invite ethnic abuse and unrest by importing it, deliberately.

The fact of the matter remains however that the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol /sees/ about 90% of the Taco Bell Express (run fer de border) and so even this is on more of a regulated quota (and kickback, you may be sure) system than anything. GSR radar, buried seismic and optical sensors, even aerostats and helicopters (UAVs started just this past summer) all can isolate as many idiots as you care to send a jeep or horseback capture team out to nab.

Even as a video-ID system _developed solely for the Southern Border_ nominally uses photogrametric points of recognition to name-the-face from a database of /hundreds of thousands/.

The idea being that those who are repeat offenders will be 'punished' by the Mexican government with more than an additional under-table tariff for working in America.

The difference again being that while U.S. citizens are sick to death of the crime, poverty and high birth rates that these people bring with them, The Fed wants and needs their lowest-tier contribution to maintain a 'service economy'.

Did we get serious about a "Three times over the wall and your executed by firing squad!", we could put a substantial hurt in even the U.S. illegal immigration efforts.

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I am not saying either government is innocent its just that this statement has always bugged me.
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The U.S. has lost all control over Iraq by the nature of trying to be 'good guys'. There is a line spoken by a jaded old U.S. Cavalryman during 'Geronimo' which goes something like "You don't hate who you're fightin' and you don't love who you're fightin' for... Pardon me for saying that that just doesn't seem like a way to win the war."

Unfortunately or otherwise, our media has gone from being a bunch of warmongering, hatefesters more than willing to use words like 'Nip, Jap, Jerry and Hun' to an organization designed specifically to find fault in every little thing which our military does.

This too is BOGUS. Because war itself is the most inhumane activity known to man and only an END to conflict will ever justify it's actions. Indeed, military's which claim to exist only to protect are _worthless_ because they do not add to the state value what they blatantly WASTE with 'only one real functional use' in by successfully maintaining the peace.

I think this entire war would have been vastly easier if it had been explained to the U.S. public from the outset along two simple lines:

1. Osama Bin Laden, backed by unknown terrorist organizations in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria, have attacked U.S. with the nominal desire to oust our mission from isolating Iraq. Since Saddam would not cooperate in providing adequate proof of destruction of his WMD program and since we are not about to be bullied by nameless buffoons who refuse to wear a national uniform when they assassinate civillians, we are going to instead INVADE Iraq, with the intent of permanent occupation.

2. Our reason for this occupation is four fold.
A. To make it clear to the Arab and Muslim populaces of the world that following the instructions within the Khoran as if it was a medieval Anarchist's Cookbook made legal 'by Allah' is only going to result in further oppression and if need be, extinction, of their religion, starting with the very land they intended to liberate from our supposed bullying.
B. Because the subsequent Democratization of Iraq is going to be based on a U.S. model, there will be no more public gatherings or private ownership of automatic weapons and explosives after we go in. For this ‘Dodge City Rules’ reason alone, we will require a minimum 350,000 troops and so intend to largely close down our NATO and Korean presences.
C. Since teaching a man to fill out a ballot is only half of the struggle not to get him to eat it afterwards, we will be in Iraq, assuming full rights to and discretionary OPEC authority over it’s oil until roughly 2020 when a new generation has been brought up on something other than radicalist extremism.
D. By 2025, oil production will begin to decline and the resulting struggle for energy will make the U.S., top petro consumer, very vulnerable and in dire need of a lasting strategic reserve. Iraq’s 20 billion barrels of crude will form the heart of this reserve and the means by which to further moderate OPEC pricing indexes. This oil is in turn our REAL reason for going into Iraq, because even though Osama Bin Laden is too big a coward to stand by his fellows, let alone before his enemies, it remains the truth that America must and WILL profit by every one of his criminal actions so that each and every man in an oil producing nation of the Middle East who finds U.S. on their doorstep /next/ can know _Exactly Whom To Blame_. Personally.

CONCLUSION:
Americans are a surprising bunch. You tell them, straight up, what the pain for gain ratio is. Especially as a function of bringing back the draft and issueing new bonded debt (which any flag rank officer would have told you, back in fall 2001, was going to be necessary to fight ANY kind of ‘global war’ on terror or anything else). And they will suck it up and put their noses to the common-sacrifice grindstone. No matter how bad it gets.

But you tell U.S. the facts /after/ it becomes clear that the initial gameplan was for the wrong (falsely attributed) reasons. And we will laugh at you and walk away in a ‘better not to correct a wrong than to be a part of it’ level of contempt. 3,500 dead or otherwise.

HONESTY then being the key to handling Iraq with the same lack of respect or kid gloves as we did Germany after WWII. Screw up this || much and we will put your ass against a wall and shoot you. Just like we did each and every Werewolf or ‘affiliated terrorist’ after WWII.

The Arabs only respect strength as a function of continuity. It’s the whip that they know and the devil that they trust. It is the ONLY reason why all the surrounding oligarchies of the region maintain control over their own desperately poor, terribly abused, populaces.

Going into the wolf’s den with an open hand and a bit of steak is asking to get your hand bit off at the armpit by the rabid animal psychology that ‘victimized become wilely sadists themselves’ underneath all that social and pseudo-religious angst.

Something which we ALSO KNEW. From Israel’s similar experiences with their neighbors.


KPl.

Originally posted by ch1466Nonsense!

It is _well_ within the 'technical means' of ANY nation to isolate completely the flow of illegal men and materiels to a given society.

Look at any railroad undercut beneath a street or flood control canal in any major city and imagine a similar 50X30ft (wide X tall), system put in place across a given terrain choke.

Particularly if you mine it and put robotic vehicles (such as we have had here at Rocky Flats for the last /20 years/) in the perfectly flat, obstacleless, bottom as a roving patrol, there would be no way to penetrate it.

If it's that simple then why not do that on the Iraqi side of the border?
It would be more in the interest of Iraq than Iran or Syria so why doesn't the US military and Iraqi government take the initiative and protect those borders in the way that you've described?

The US will be in Iran at the end of this year or early next year...

The US military is "over-stretched" I hear some say...

Have we all forgotten Israel, whos lates moves of removing troops from the Gaza strip and other selected locations across Palestine... With all those active-duty troops now no longer "active" whats the next best thing for them to do?

Aid an American invasion into another wealthy oil country... We have yet to see Israel in a full scale war... The petty scuffles with the Freedom Fighting Guerillas of Palestine is nothing compared to what is going to happen soon...

The Palestinian people, scared of loosing their newly recovered homeland will just stand and watch...

Its going to happen, and its going to happen soon...

Did anyone hear on their daily dose of FoxNews hear that the US and Israel are discussing "bombing selected targets"... Do you know what that could mean, do you think Iran is going to stand by and forget that they did that... This isn't Cuba we are talking about, this is a major military power in the region - they will retaliate - "Against What?" I hear some asking...

Against US bases in Iraq and against Israel... George W. will then cry out... "They are attacking nations that beleive in freedom, they attacked a country in turmoil, this is completely un-acceptable... We must protect the free people of the world..."

From then on, the story pretty much writes itself... China and Russia would become Furious, they may even lash out...

Who knows maybe John Titor was telling the truth all along...

But seriously people, something dark and scary is looming in the shadows...

Unless we have a secret clone army, I don't see how the United States could take over Iran. There's also the fact that Iran is alot tougher and more technologically advanced than Iraq. Maybe they thing the Iranians would welcome us with open arms...

According to an Iraqi official, the events surrounding the explosives story were exaggerated.

Yahoo< br />
Interior Minister Bayan Jabr told reporters that Iraqi security forces recently opened fire on a group of men carrying boxes near the Iranian border. The men dropped the boxes and fled back into Iranian territory. Inside the boxes were dynamite sticks with some wires.

"This is all that happened at the border and was very much exaggerated," Jabr said.

What a shock that Rumsfeld would exaggerate about things like that
The truth won't matter too much now as they already planted the seed in the minds of the general public about Iran supplying explosives to Iraq.

Originally posted by subz
So no mention of the fact that the other weapons the insurgents are using are American and British made? That fact is conveniently forgotten.

Also the Americans supplied Afghanis with weapons, money and know-how to fight the invading Russians. How would this be any different to that? Intentions? Well thats a subjective stance isnt it.

First of all, what proof do you have that corroborates your statement that the rest of the weapons the insurgents are using were provided by the US and Brittain? There is only one weapon they use which is the old Brittish short magazine Lee Enfield. If you would have noticed from all the videos of terrorists the weapons they use are mostly Russian.

The weapons used by insurgents/terrorists are the Mannlicher Turnbolt Rifle (Austria), the Mauser Gewehr 98/Karabiner 98K (Germany), the Mosin-Nagant Rifle (Russia), the Short Magazine Lee Enfield (Brittain), the CZ-58 (Czechoslovakia), the Simonov SKS (Russia), and the Kalashnikov AK-47 (Russia). Of course insurgents also use the weapons they steal from the ded bodies of coalition forces.

You can find this list from the following website.
www.military.com...

Originally posted by Muaddib
Of course insurgents also use the weapons they steal from the ded bodies of coalition forces.

Well you kind of answered your own question there. But how about this:

Al-Qaqa'a, the Iraqi military complex from which 350 tons of explosives disappeared, was looted after US troops left the area refusing requests to protect the site, Iraqi witnesses say.

They say unguarded buildings were stripped of their contents after the arrival and departure of American troops in the last few days of the war.

Yesterday an armed Islamic group claimed to have obtained a large quantity of the explosives and threatened to use them against coalition troops. The group, calling itself al-Islam's Army Brigades, al-Karar Brigade, said on a video that it had co-ordinated with officers and soldiers of "the American intelligence" to obtain a "huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqa'a facility".

The looted explosives have become a contentious issue in the US election campaign, adding weight to the accusations of John Kerry, that George Bush mishandled the war.

Iraqi people claim US forces were specifically asked to secure the complex but declined to do so, saying their orders were to proceed towards Baghdad. The looters are said to have removed everything from desks and computers to ammunition and artillery shells.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has revealed that among the items stolen were HMX and RDX, key components in plastic explosives such as C-4 and Semtex, which are favoured by insurgent groups. The IAEA said it had warned the Bush administration of the vulnerability of the al-Qaqa'a arsenal in April last year after the looting of the main Iraqi nuclear facility. There is strong suspicion that the explosives have been used in the car bomb attacks in which hundreds of civilians as well as US and Iraqi government forces have been killed.

U.S Troops At Iraq Weapons Cache

SEVENTEEN British companies who supplied Iraq with nuclear, biological, chemical, rocket and conventional weapons technology are to be investigated and could face prosecution following a Sunday Herald investigation.

One of the companies is Inter national Military Services, a part of the Ministry of Defence, which sold rocket technology to Iraq. The companies were named by Iraq in a 12,000 page dossier submitted to the UN in December. The Security Council agreed to US requests to censor 8000 pages -- including sections naming western businesses which aided Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programme.

The five permanent members of the security council -- Britain, France, Russia, America and China -- are named as allowing companies to sell weapons technology to Iraq.

17 British Firms Armed Saddam With His Weapons
We (Britain and America) sold Iraq these weapons. America then left a huge weapons cache unguarded and allowed the insurgents to steal weapons and 350 tonnes of explosives!

Explosives that were then acknowledged to of been used in roadside IED's and other insurgent attacks.

What more proof do you want? Of course this information is not used to implicate American and British help for the insurgency, but a few men with boxes full of dynamite crossing the Iranian border indicates a full scale Iranian government sponsorship of the Iraqi insurgency. God I love how Rumsfeld's mind works.