Where is the proof? Underground facilities

Well let's see,

Underground facilities are everywhere in every country
and consist of military, private, and even Alien origin. Yes HAARP could be used to communicate with such underground bases. It could also be used to locate them in enemy terrortory as well as destroy them or drive the people in them totally insane. HAARP is an exceptionally versatile weapons system. The below www. site is the most extensive and revealing site I have ever discovered as relates to underground "whatever"! Happy reading.


Lector caveat: The material in the links below spans the gamut in believability from the factual, and demonstrably true, to the scarcely credible, if not downright incredible. That is to say, not every word in every one of these links is necessarily true. In this world, there are hard facts and there are also flights of fancy. You, the reader, must exercise your humble faculties of discernment and God-given horse sense to carefully sift fact from fable! 'Nuff said. Let's go underground.

www.sauderzone.com...

TUT TUT

You should dig/drill a little deeper! According to the patent, the Subterrene was invented by a man called John H. Altseimer. (Gosh, a german name again!) If you run a trace on him, you'll find out that he's also the author of a book or document called 'An assessment of fuel cell propulsion systems'. It's illustrated and consists of 184 pages!
Go look it up in a campus library. I know I will!

www.ub.unimaas.nl...

I'm convinced both the drill as well as the inventor are genuine.

[Edited on 27-3-2004 by Olafski]

Originally posted by Condorcet

I've been considering this hypothetical nuclear-tunneling machine called the Subterrene and I've concluded that it only exists in our imaginations.


[Edited on 27-3-2004 by Condorcet] [/quotend judging by


WELL LET'S SEE,

Apparently your conclusions are wrong, the below post seems to have enough listed proof to enforce the existience of such equipment. A just looking at the dates I would imagine they have far superior machines now. Development never ceases.

TUTUTKAMEN

Subterrenes
Nuclear powered tunnelling machines.

Since the 1950�s, the US Government has had nuclear powered tunneling machines. They were patented in the 1970's (US Patents #3,693,731). As it burrows through the rock hundreds of feet below the surface, the Subterrene heats whatever stone it encounters into molten rock, or magma, which cools after the Subterrene has moved on. The result is a tunnel with a smooth, glazed lining, somewhat like black glass, which is also apparently strong enough that it doesn�t even require reinforcing of the walls. It was featured in OMNI magazine, Sept 1983, p80.

I happened to see a picture of (what I assume is) one of these machines in a UFO magazine, but at $15, I wasn't going to (let alone couldn't afford to) buy it. Then I was visiting a friend and he showed me the wierdpics.com website, and lo and behold, there was the picture. Hmmm, what would the US airforce be doing tunneling deep under the ground?

members.datafast.net.au...


[Edited on 27-3-2004 by tututkamen]

Heres an in depth state by state link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by MrEisenhower

Governments are very good at disinformation, spinning things into making people think in a certain way

NOT always!

Flashback to the state of the union address by George W. Sitting right behing him, Dick Cheney.

This was when he was trying to gain support for gulf war II, so he talks about how Iraq tried to obtain uranium from Nigeria.

Remember that document? Why they tried to make it look real, and they failed miserably. A google search on some of the information within revealed it was forged.

Anyways, it's well know now, see washingtontimes.com... but my point is, well it isn't _that_ easy;-)

tututkamen,

The link you posted doesn't show a picture. However I've found a conventional USAF tunneling machine here:

www.wealth4freedom.com...

Is this the same picture you saw?

Everyone is talking about the nuclear-powered Subterrene but I can't find any proof of their existence. Why would it be so hard to find information on, I mean it isn't like fission-power is still cutting edge technology anymore. Why couldn't Japan, France, the UK, or Russia build their own version of it, if it's a feasible device?

How would engineers deal with the deadly gases created by using such a device?

I'm sure our military would be happy to popularize the idea it has built a nation-wide underground network of tunnels using the trillions of dollars missing from the US treasury over the years, but I'm skeptical about it. More likely the money has simply been stolen by defense contractors who have little to show for it aside from the lavish lifestyles of executives and primary stock owners and the money they've spread throughout our corrupt political system.

Not that these things don't exist [they certainly do as in the case of Greenbriar] but they're probably attached to in-sight hotels, etc. rather than being standalone structures.

If you see all the vent shafts, access points, and above ground stuff involved in the missile silos of the 60's which house only 50 or so people at best...can you imagine what would be needed for 300-1000 people?

I'm sure they probably have places inside Norad or other government structures [Nevada test site, Air Force Bases, etc.] that are secured and blast proof but other than those I would be surprised if there was anything on any scale to speak of.

My best bet is that these places are contained on Air Force Bases like Andrews, Offutt, Beale, Vandenburg, NTS, Ellsworth, Etc.

First, where the dirt goes:
www.detailshere.com...

second, proof of the underground bases:
www.fas.org...

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
english.pravda.ru...

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


While there are underground bases for people to go to in case of an emergency, I am skeptical of bases such as Dulce. There would be need to support such bases and bring in the supplies. Maintenance would be needed, as underground places leak and need repairs. The Earth is always moving, and the need to inspect would be a daily activity. Transportation, water & sewage, power and other areas would need people to maintain such systems.

Find the maintenance workers and other support, and use them to prove that there is a base.

reply to post by kidflash2008


Well, it is absolute fact that underground facilities exist. Did you look at the link that I posted for the underground city? Fact, my friend.

Yes, the logistics are a bit out there, but I'm not sure what more evidence people require than what has been provided....

reply to post by Condorcet

I posted pictures. (US Patents #3,693,731)

www.freepatentsonline.com...
www.freepatentsonline.com...
www.patentstorm.us...
""subterrene, nuclear
A machine to bore holes in solid rock, whereby the rock is melted and pushed to the sides of the tunnel, creating the appearance of a glass-lined tunnel. These machines can bore tunnels up to 12 feet high, and up to 5 miles in an hour. These tunnels are often associated with present aliens or ancient aliens. US patents exist for such a machine. A search at the US Patent office yielded patent 5,107,936, invented by Werner Foppe of Denmark. This patent was applied for in Nov, 1988, and apparently granted in Apr 1992. Other patents exist also for the US Dept of Energy. This patent entry includes references to this technology in some mining and petroleum magazines. Also patent 4,066,138, for a boring machine made from a high powered laser, applied for in Dec, 1976, for inventors Salisbury and Stiles. Other patents are: US Patent No. 3,693,731, 26 Sep 1972, 2 more patents in May, 1975. Funny, the public patent database only goes back to 1976.""


Yes, there is a lot of proof that they exist.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

 

Find the maintenance workers and other support, and use them to prove that there is a base.

Unfortunately, even maintanence workers at a celarnace level military installation must have certain clearances. Meaning they are sworn to secrecy.

Not likely you will find many will to break that vow.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


Many people join the Army to learn a trade, including electrician, structural engineering and so on. In many cases, the Oath of Allegience is the only vow the maintenance workers at military or government underground facilities would need to make.

I once lived within the four mile exclusion zone of the NATO command base in the UK. This facility is almost entirely underground. TPTB consider the base a prime target for nuclear strike on NATO, UK or Europe as this would remove the control centre. As such, the base is built to withstand nuclear strike and is a sealed unit capable of sustaining life for all personel.

Living within the zone meant that should such a strike have occured, we would have been vapourised on impact.

I don't actually care how it was built or how many people, or who, will be cushioned there should NATO have been attacked. I care that they have the technology to build such a thing and not only not share it more equitably with the general population but also not adapt or develop it for civilian use. All the wealth spent concepting, building and maintaining this facility, was created by the labour and taxes of the general population.

reply to post by teapot


I understand what you are saying, but what we are talking about here are underground military bases that are not acknowledged by the gov't.

You dont need to find anyone to coroborate underground facilities, as many are public knowledge.

If it is a base that is a "secret" installation, I GUARANTEE you that there is no one working there, in any capacity, that doesnt have "clearance" of some sort.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


I agree with you that such facilities exist. I just have questions when it comes to Dulce and other alleged alien/human bases.

The military can build many facilities underground. It just requires a lot of maintenance for upkeep. For those who think there is a hidden base, the way to prove it is through the boring process of logistics.

Originally posted by Condorcet
There's no way the massive amount of material excavated to build subway tunnels can just disappear into surrounding "cracks and fissures" as magma. There's way too much material to move. Also consider the lethal gases released by creating that amount of magma, they'd have to be vented somewhere.

If the Subterrene existed it would be used to build federal-funded subways in our large cities and to build tunnels for roads and conventional railways. Why waste time and money on less efficient tunneling methods if they have this technology? Why didn't they use the Subterrene for the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste storage facility?

There is no evidence this device exists, and plenty of reasons to believe it doesn't. I've seen the patent for it, but it shows a small drilling device, not a replacement for the 18~25ft diameter conventional tunnel boring machines.

Are we reading the same patents from the Subterrene wikipedia? They state clearly in the patent that only some of the rock would be used for the liner and that in certain cases, they would thermally stress fracture rock for "mechanical removal" suggesting they might back it up and bring in a bucket loader or something.

The face would get hot, but in the diagrams, it clearly shows a cooling system(plus an alternate) for solidifying the walls of the tunnel. Of course it'd be hot and toxic for someone not wearing proper attire much like a vulcanologist might wear along with a respirator system.

Nuclear power(stigma), toxic gasses and the possible expenses involved might be why it isn't used in the public domain even though part of the reason for inventing the thing as stated in the patent was to reduce the cost of replacing the cutters on TBMs(among other things) using previously patented thermal drilling principals.

They also quote a 2-12 meter diameter capability which sounds big enough to me.

I'm not saying this thing exists, but it is the first time I'd seen it mentioned and decided to check out the patent for it which I found interesting and not entirely impractical.
At any rate, you're probably right and they don't exist, but rather, have only been patented. For all I know, the patent could be expired already.

On a side note, after watching the DUMB video on the ATS media page, it was clear to me that not all of the images used to compose the video were really pictures taken in DUMBs. Pretty much the day after seeing it, I watched a discovery channel show about Tokyo's flood control system which is rather impressive and one of the shots used in the DUMB video was of their hugantic overflow tank.
Link

Originally posted by MrEisenhower


But there is the witness accounts. The farmers around Dulce telling the media about large boreing machines being drafted into the area. Extra large roads being built for Heavy cargo. The area being made restricted. Some people have been arrested for storing to much data about the facility.The unusually high cattle mutilations rate.

Speaks for itself...

I live near Dulce and have many friends who grew up in the area and, other than the cattle mutilations, they have never seen anything unusual. Certainly they have never seen large boring machines or heavy duty roads or restricted areas (except Indian reservation boundries). I find it amusing that the OP asks for proof and all you can do is make vauge references to "witness accounts". Can you be more specific? Also, who are the "some people" who've been arrested for "storing to much data" (whatever that means) about the "facility"?



[edit on 30-4-2009 by RKWWWW]

Originally posted by goregrinder

As for places like Dulce, there are several things you must keep in mind. Old Native Americans, that live in the surrounding reservation, still see gov't vans going down dirt roads that lead no where. There are service ponds that feed unaccounted for pipes. It's my opinion that something's going on, but as for the scale, i'm clueless.

Do these Old Native Americans have names? That would be a good place to start if one was trying to begin the process of proving there is truely something going on in Dulce.

Mount Weather has a known underground facility stretching miles beneath the surface containing cafeterias, hospitals and enough food and water to last 200 people a couple months. This is a known fact, as I live right by the Mountain. In fact, I made a topic earlier today researching lots of information on Mount Weather, check my profile.

It is indeed where the president and vice president go in case of a nation wide emergency such as a nuclear attack, they go far underground to safety.

There is a facility in the NTTR called UA-1. It is 975 ft below ground and as tunnels one-half long used to conduct physics experiments on nuclear weapons. Simply go to the Nevada Test Site website and read all about it.

I personally don't know what more they could know about nuclear weapons since 1945? But the underground facility is real and if they are using it for something else, your geuss is as good as mine.