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Don't Blame the Iraq War for Terrorism

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posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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You have to register (free) for the online Washington Post in order to read this excellent piece from Charles Krauthammer, so I'll quote more of it than I normally would. Very interesting perspective:

Washington Post editorial

Excerpt:

Friday, July 15, 2005; Page A23

Last Nov. 2 Theo van Gogh, Dutch filmmaker and descendant of the painter, was cycling through Amsterdam. He was accosted by Mohammed Bouyeri, who shot him six times as van Gogh pleaded, "We can still talk about it! Don't do it!" Bouyeri then cut his throat with a kitchen knife, practically severing his head. Bouyeri was not done. He then took a five-page Islamist manifesto and with his knife impaled it on van Gogh's chest.

On trial now in the Netherlands, Bouyeri is unrepentant. In court he turned to van Gogh's grieving mother and with infinite cruelty said to her, "I do not feel your pain."

He feels instead glory. Van Gogh had made a short film about the oppression of Muslim women. Bouyeri was acting "purely in the name of my religion," championing his faith by butchering a filmmaker critical of it.

Bouyeri is no newly arrived immigrant. Nor is he, like the Sept. 11 hijackers, a cosmopolitan terrorist sent abroad to kill. He was born and bred in Holland. Likewise, three of the four London bombers were second-generation Pakistani Brits.

The most remarkable discovery is that Europe's second- and third-generation Muslim immigrants are more radicalized than the first. One reasonably non-political and non-radical Muslim activist, raised in the suburbs of Paris, explained himself (to the Wall Street Journal) as having "immigrated to France at the local maternity ward."

The fact that native-born Muslim Europeans are committing terrorist acts in their own countries shows that this Islamist malignancy long predates Iraq, long predates Afghanistan and long predates Sept. 11, 2001. What Europe had incubated is an enemy within, a threat that for decades Europe simply refused to face.

Early news reports of the London bombings mentioned that police found no suspects among known Islamist cells in Britain. Come again? Why in God's name is a country letting known Islamist cells thrive, instead of just rolling them up?



An excellent question, indeed, for the Europeans and Americans.




posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Krauthammer is one of the PNAC members who helped to push the US into the Iraq war so of course he tries to defend the war and deny it has led to any negative events.

He can say that the Iraq war was not behind the recent attacks in Europe but how many muslim attacks were there in Western Europe before the Iraq war?
Were there any in the last 100 years?

EDIT: Ok, there were a few but the majority seemed to coincide with military actions in other countries, like the bombings of Libya.

[edit on 25-7-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Were there any in the last 100 years?


havent taken ani history classes?
, how about the famous SAS raid on the Iranian embassy in 1980 in London. or attacks on France. i can spill out more if u like.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
havent taken ani history classes?
, how about the famous SAS raid on the Iranian embassy in 1980 in London. or attacks on France. i can spill out more if u like.


The Iranian embassy incident was not by radical Islamists, it was by people opposed to the radical Islamist government of Ayatollah Khomeini.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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I don't blame the "Iraq War" for terrorism.

But I blame the lies, negligence, ineptitude and criminality of the Bush administration's efforts, for increasing terrorism one hundred fold.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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If the US-led Coalition had not removed Saddam by 'invading' Iraq after 9/11, will or would the acts of terrorism have ceased?

If the US-led Coalition pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan or the Middle East period, will or would the acts of terrorism cease?

If you answer 'no' to any one or both of the questions above, then the US-led Coalition being in Iraq has no bearing on why acts of terrorism continue today, so the anti-war rebuttal that "No occupation, no terrorism" is ludicrous.

As indicated by MaskedAvatar, what the invasion of Iraq did do was 'stir the hornets nest.' But despite that, acts of terrorism by fundementalist Muslim extremists would not have ceased, only the frequency of the acts.






seekerof



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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I dont know about you but if we're dealing with something inevitable here with no cure I'd prefer to keep the frequency of outbreaks to a minimum rather then cause a massive outbreak.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Mr. Cabbagetool is just that...

While you certainly can't blame the war for terrorism as a whole, you would be remiss if you didn't blame the war for an increase in terrorism in Iraq.

There's also the fact that PNAC is a dangerous, treasonous organization in its own right, so there's that to consider...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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www.underreported.com...

Of course, we had nothing to do with building 'the base'(data base of muja hadeen), nor training its next generation.

More proxy warriors for the real war going on - the war to elliminate your rights. As Roosevelt said, 'Nothing in Politics happens by accident.' One can extend that to covert ops...



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:37 PM
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Terrorism may have increased but its all the same technique and meaning behind it and all derived from martyrdom from which people are brainwashed into.
When is that going to stop and when can the west have freedom of opinion in its own land about another angle on the Islamic religion as many athiests do about Christianity. We are becoming afraid to say anything about Islam in case they do something. Guess that is why you will never get a film made about the prophet Mohammad. Like to see how his character is portrayed in likeness to the Koran. Their book critises Christians and Jews so its political incorectness is already intergrated and not much can be done about it.

Bush does not help nor does his enemies and some people are just stuck in the middle. In the end if they had the Wests power, nuclear weopons etc... and we had thiers weakneses where would we be now? A lot worse than the middle east is right now I reckon. They are conquering based governments and no one outside it can fit in because Islam means litrally submission-to god. That is why the west is foolishly trying to bring democracy. But if they develped nuclear weapons no doubt a nuclear war would happen out of the region and that is starting with Isreal to get rid of the Jews.

Sorry if it sounds offensive but thats how I see it for now and would prefer not to.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 08:59 PM
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Several religions are as equally abused as one another in the name of war and territory and stupid "We are (insert name of God here)'s chosen people and you are not" statements.

This is all proof that religion and spirituality have little to do with one another.



posted on Jul, 26 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
The fact that native-born Muslim Europeans are committing terrorist acts in their own countries shows that this Islamist malignancy long predates Iraq, long predates Afghanistan and long predates Sept. 11, 2001. What Europe had incubated is an enemy within, a threat that for decades Europe simply refused to face.

We refuse to face the threat of terrorism?
Exscuse me?
My country alone has fought terrorism for longer than yours has existed.
My country was fighting terror when yours was still in nappies.
Dont try and tell us WE refuse to face terrorism.


Early news reports of the London bombings mentioned that police found no suspects among known Islamist cells in Britain. Come again? Why in God's name is a country letting known Islamist cells thrive, instead of just rolling them up?

So we should roll people up for being anti british?
Then should we roll up the scots that dont like british rule?
Or mabye abolish and ban the SNP for its seperatist ideals, damm rebels huh!
We live in a country of freedom, if that means we have to live next to people we dont like, well tough.



An excellent question, indeed, for the Europeans and Americans.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
He can say that the Iraq war was not behind the recent attacks in Europe but how many muslim attacks were there in Western Europe before the Iraq war?
Were there any in the last 100 years?

EDIT: Ok, there were a few but the majority seemed to coincide with military actions in other countries, like the bombings of Libya.


Just for further clarification, and in contradiction, on what you have mentioned, AceOfBase, these were just in Germany alone:


2nd of June Movement attacked Government target (Feb. 27, 1975, Federal Republic of Germany)

2nd of June Movement attacked Military target (Feb. 2, 1972, Federal Republic of Germany)

2nd of June Movement attacked Military target (June 2, 1976, Federal Republic of Germany)

al-Fatah attacked Utilities target (Apr. 28, 1979, Federal Republic of Germany)

Amal attacked Airports & Airlines target (Apr. 17, 1988, Federal Republic of Germany)

Amal attacked Business target (June 28, 1988, Federal Republic of Germany)

Amal attacked Other target (Apr. 17, 1988, Federal Republic of Germany)

Anti-American Arab Liberation Front attacked Military target (Apr. 5, 1986, Federal Republic of Germany)

Anti-Imperialist Cell (AIZ) attacked Diplomatic target (Dec. 23, 1995, Federal Republic of Germany)

Anti-Imperialist Group Liberty for Mumia Abu Jamal attacked Business target (Aug. 10, 1995, Federal Republic of Germany)

Arab Liberation Front (ALF) attacked Military target (Oct. 31, 1986, Federal Republic of Germany)

Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) attacked Airports & Airlines target (Aug. 27, 1979, Federal Republic of Germany)

Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) attacked Diplomatic target (Aug. 25, 1983, Federal Republic of Germany)

Autonomous Cells attacked Transportation target (Feb. 15, 1987, Federal Republic of Germany)

Baader-Meinhof Group attacked Military target (Aug. 20, 1982, Federal Republic of Germany)

Baader-Meinhof Group attacked Military target (June 1, 1976, Federal Republic of Germany)

Baader-Meinhof Group attacked Military target (May 11, 1972, Federal Republic of Germany)

Baader-Meinhof Group attacked Military target (May 24, 1972, Federal Republic of Germany)

Basque Fatherland and Freedom attacked Business target (July 11, 1991, Federal Republic of Germany)

Basque Fatherland and Freedom attacked Business target (Oct. 12, 1984, Federal Republic of Germany)

MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base: federal republic of germany

More can be found here for other Western European countries:
MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base: western europe sub-categories

And a analytical breakdown for Western Europe looks something like this:


Terrorist Incidents > by Region Range: 01/01/1968 - 07/27/2005

Region/Incidents/Injuries/Fatalities

Western Europe/5244/5372/1389

MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base: Incidents by Region







seekerof

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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The Uzbek government obviously believes the Pentagon has been dealing with terrorist groups and decided to deny the Americans a base from which they might be using to foment Islamist terrorist operations in Uzbekistan and in surrounding countries



www.waynemadsenreport.com...

Terrorism is the tool of government, used to move their populations (or a targets) to accept agendas they normally would not.

The Great Game is afoot Watson!



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