Who Wrote the Bible? And Is it Still "Pure"?

even if there have been few alterations over time due to translations, it doesn't make what was originaly written any more infallible.

After thinking about this topic again..Ive come to the same simple conclusion.

If you are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, then you understand that God is capable of overcoming any human failing or misdeed to keep His word complete.

If you do not believe or simply hate God, then you do not think it can be done and beleive there must be errors.

I agree, it is easy to point out doubts in the bible and say it is a bunch of hooey. heck, you can do that with any book these days. For me I never thought much of it, until a friend gave me a copy and told me to read the Gospel of John. I couldn't put it down. and for once I understood

the gospel of John is my favorite book too, Jehosephat.

that's the thing about the bible... the stuff people say about it, and because of it, are often very different from what it says.




in answer to the original question: the council of nicea in 500 AD or so made a lot of revisions to the original books of the bible. hundreds of translations and retranslations over the course of a few millenia have also had a serious impact on the integrity of the text-- but it still does more or less what it was meant to do.it

[edit on 7/21/2005 by Odd]

i believe in the christian god like i believe in the ancient gods of greek, hence i do not think he is at all real. there are literaly thousands of different sects and religions that have come and gone that all claim they are the 'true' one. i find this concept incredibly laughable that any religion can sit there today and say that their religion is devine or true, when its clear that it is not. from all religions people talk about seeing their god, hearing their god etc. however, if there is only one true religion then surely there are a lot of people lying? which ever way you look at it, a lot of people must be lying, because they can't all be right. what this comes down to is not actually lying, these people think they believe in what they do so much that they are willing to let themselves see and hear things.

people often say the bible has stood the test of time, yet this is only because people have held on to it so much, and are unwilling to let it go. the reason why it was held on to by church leaders is because they wanted power and control, what could be more controller 1500 years ago than telling people, 'if you don't believe in this book, if you don't accept jesus christ, then you will go to hell for eternity and be tortured'... such an absurd concept that worked 1500 years ago, but doesn't work as well today as numbers of bible cheerleaders and church goers have dropped. welcome to the era of darwin, sense and logic will prevail.

I too was like you once, and even said some of the same things. These are old arguments and have been around since the beginning of recorded history. THey are all true from an unbelivers perspective, and the problem with that is that you never want to listen to the other side, or see it from thier point of veiw

Not once have I ever claimed that I worship the only 'true' God. And lumping every religion into one genrality is unfair. It really should be YOU who decides which is the true God instead of looking at the choices and giving up at the start.

Ideologies are a hard thing to fathom. But you must respect thier choices in faith and salvation becasue they might actually be right. Or at the very leasrt teach you something about devotion, and living a pleasing life. TO many, if you said they are lying about thier faith , it is one of the gravest insults they would ever hear, even more so since it comes from a person who doesn't even bother to understand them. You just make a general statment and put it in the same bag you put the rest in.

It is much more then belief (Accepting as true) but also faith (complete trust). They react in joy and thanks when they recive blessings. But also have hope and prayer when things get bad. I have one member in church who says having breast cancer was the greatest blessing she ever had becasue she was able to see the generosity in so many people, and also able to talk to so many people about her faith, and finally knowing that she had that stregth she could use to accomplish anything. Is there anything wrong with her? No, it is wonderful to be able to turn something so horrible, into something so wonderful all based on her belief and faith.

The bible HAS stood the test of time, I metioned this earlier to you. And it is not because I have held onto it so much. Yes, there are many chruchs who have vastly diferrat interpetations of the same verse. Mostly it is to support a fallicy in thier doctirne. In my first year in studing the bible I was often amazed about how something written 2000 years ago, could be linked to something 4000 years ago. And the fact the same message appears over and over again. there is no other book like it in the world. There is no other book that has been printed so much. Harry Potter books don't sell so good becasue it is required of any fan to have one. It is becasue people love the story, the characters, and how it is written. Same thing with the bible, (paraphrase a hymn)

I love to [read] the story Of unseen things above,
Of Jesus and His glory, Of Jesus and His love.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
why it was held on to by church leaders is because they wanted power and control, what could be more controller 1500 years ago than telling people, 'if you don't believe in this book, if you don't accept jesus christ, then you will go to hell for eternity and be tortured'... such an absurd concept that worked 1500 years ago, but doesn't work as well today

Yes it was used by CHurch leaders, mainly to get more money from believers. But that is also why in the 1500s you had Martin Luther and the Reformation movement. Creating hundreds of protestent churches. But the Catholic church still does the same today only they are more subtle about it. Fear is a great motivator, fear of hell can make people do anyhting if they belive in it. But it isn't the best motivator. Most churchers I know say that the only thing you need to do to attain salvation is belive that God sent his only son to die for all of our since, and that in beliveing in Jesus sacrifce we would be saved. Is that really a bad thing? To just belive and attain salvation?

tho I agree many have left churches because Satan has provided them with many things to distract them from what is really important. IN my own area, people ahve left thier churches becasue of some of them supporting Gay/lesbian lifestyle. Some are simple corruption of the leaders in the church, such as pedophilia, or raiding the offerings for themselves. But on a whole, most chruches are not like that and do not have those problems.

Sense and logic do prevail, I know of scholars who have gone out to prove the bible false, and have been converted to christianity. If you really use logic you would find that becomeing a beliver and being right, is better then not being a beliver and being wrong

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Not once have I ever claimed that I worship the only 'true' God.

you may not personally say that, yet your religion does. all religions cannot be right. some might say 'perhaps they are all linked and are all worshiping the same god', yet some don't practise monotheism. so if believe you're not worshiping the one true god then why do you worship him?

Or at the very leasrt teach you something about devotion, and living a pleasing life.

i am devoted. devoted to spreading the truth that i believe. just as devoted as the first church leaders who spread the news of their new messiah. jesus was not the messiah until the council of nicaea decided it was so. i do lead a pleasant life and do not need any book to show me any path nor do i need a book to teach me about devotion.

TO many, if you said they are lying about thier faith , it is one of the gravest insults they would ever hear, even more so since it comes from a person who doesn't even bother to understand them.

well surely some people must be lying. even if they don't want to hear it, some people are lying. you can't have it both ways. all of the religions i'm sure in their hearts believe they are right. yet, they cannot all be right. do you not see the point i'm trying to make? most religions may be right as they all try and teach goodness, yet teaching something that's good doesn't actually mean their gods are real. what about people that fly planes in to buildings or blow themselves up to kill 30 people because they believe they are doing their god's work...should i bother to understand where these people are coming from, according to you i should, and also they are telling the truth 'according to you'.

I have one member in church who says having breast cancer was the greatest blessing she ever had becasue she was able to see the generosity in so many people, and also able to talk to so many people about her faith, and finally knowing that she had that stregth she could use to accomplish anything. Is there anything wrong with her? No, it is wonderful to be able to turn something so horrible, into something so wonderful all based on her belief and faith.

so she couldn't accomplish anything before she got cancer? she couldn'y see the generosity in so many people before she got cancer? that's pretty much what religion boils down to...'helping people through life'. as it seems there is a human desire for religion. she didn't necessarily get helped by something spiritual, but just by having that 'faith' in something was enough. this is how all religions can be true, if the concept of god and afterlife a taken away, what you have a good teachings and something there that can help. if you start throwing in stories of heaven and hell, people turn the other way because they think its absurd.

The bible HAS stood the test of time, I metioned this earlier to you. there is no other book like it in the world. There is no other book that has been printed so much. Harry Potter books don't sell so good becasue it is required of any fan to have one.

the bible is not a book and is wrong to compare it to any 'book'. it is a collection of stories from an era that no longer exists. the bible has stood the test of time, mainly because until 1853ish there was no other thing to believe apart from other religions. so since the council of nicaea the bible was pretty much safe. it was only when darwin came along that the bible has had to stand up to anything. so the bible has only stood up, for i think, 150 years. so i wouldn't say at the moment the bible has stood the test of time. this is because up until darwin the bible was never 'really' challenged.

tho I agree many have left churches because Satan has provided them with many things to distract them from what is really important. IN my own area, people ahve left thier churches becasue of some of them supporting Gay/lesbian lifestyle. Some are simple corruption of the leaders in the church, such as pedophilia.

maybe they leave because they want to. if someone goes to join a satanic cult then you can use the excuse they have left because of satan, otherwise they are leaving on their own freewill. i don't agree with the gay/lesbian lifestlye as i believe the whole point of life is to procreate. if everyone were gay, and we didn't have the technology to make babies, then we'd just die out, which is wrong, so why should it be right for a few to live that lifestyle.

I know of scholars who have gone out to prove the bible false, and have been converted to christianity. If you really use logic you would find that becomeing a beliver and being right, is better then not being a beliver and being wrong.

you say the same thing my christian friend said. i told her to look up anything to do with evolution and science because she knows nothing about it, and she said 'many scientists have gone out to prove the bible wrong, only then to be converted'. if so many of these people trying to prove the bible wrong are being converted then why are church numbers dropping as a whole. if you look at the bible from a literal and logical point of view, it does not make sense.

you open it up and there's someone speaking things in to existence. already that is illogical. then we have a talking snake. yeah, because we see them all the time. again illogical. the talking snake is just a 'mythical element' that the same concept was used in other various creation stories just to enhance the devinity. noah's ark, there isn't enough water on earth to make a flood 20 ft above the highest mountain. even if all the ice caps melt, it would never reach that high. i'm looking at the bible logically and it has flaws. you cannot logically believe in the bible. it doesn't make sense. now if you look at noah's flood from a believer point of view it's 'with god anything is possible', which is turn means he can defy logic. which again means the bible cannot be logically interpreted.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Not once have I ever claimed that I worship the only 'true' God.

you may not personally say that, yet your religion does.

Which religion is that? If you say chrisitanity then you are technically correct but very inaccurate.

Thus I have proven your statement to be highly inaccurate, and the rest of your argument pointless since you fail to go into specifics and still lump religion into one big corrupt whole

All christians say my religion is right and the bible is written by god. How do you know, faith? cmon did god come down and tell you it is all real? The bible is just a good ongoing story written by many who over hundreds of years were trying to get people to believe in their thoughts.

If you research the bible and look up the origins of many words in the bible you will find they come from other religions and cultures of that time.
Here is one easy one: HELL comes from northern europe, the norse, druids and celts. HELL derived from HEL heaven for people who believe in the ancient norse religions. why was this word used, to use trickery on those who could be easily persuaded, and then word of mouth would move it through the lands.

Words are used many times in the bible that come from other cultures to suck in those people. i have discussed other words at previous times like AMEN, a word most christians use in their life, but how it is spelt exactly like the egyptian god AMEN-ra. Kinda funny dont you think?

and why I ask why did christians build there churches on the foundations of so called pagaen temples in europe?

if this religion is so pure and true and the only way then why does it use trickery, force, and other gods to make one believe.

you dont hear pagans using your god to sell their religion, is nowhere your god mentioned.... but in the bible your god says that all other gods are not true or real and he is the only true one. Why would a god need to tell you this? if you cant believe in him for what he is then if he is the true one you will pay at the end.

just think about the bible and the words that are in it not trying to prove it is real or not, just looking at the words for what they are and how they have been manipulated to give you this belief and then maybe you can see what I do.

I was reading the newest Harry Potter book and in the front it said that the book was the absolute truth. Of course, since the book said it, it must be true.

The above statement is just an analogy of the argument I hear too often.

The best lie is 99% truth.

The bible is great to gleem a good moral basis for living. But that's how it deceives. It sounds right because the basis is right. Beyond that, it is meant to confuse. It is meant to cause fear. Fear of hell. Fear of retribution. If Satan is the grand deceiver why would one think he did not deceive the early church?

Why would God need a book for His children to know Him? Did He not create all things? Did he not hide the Truth in your heart? It is not necessary to know God. Know yourself first then you will glimpse the depth of the All.

"Blessed is the wise man who sought after the truth, and when he found it, he rested upon it forever and was unafraid of those who wanted to disturb him."

But yet Christians don't rest. They are always defending beliefs. Why? There is no need for defense of the Truth. Maybe your soul is trying to tell you something.

How does anyone know that Moses was not visited by Satan in disguise? Does the Creator of All things really require anyone's belief? Does the Creator really require anyone's worship? Ask these of your soul not of your preacher. Do not look outside yourself for the answers.

Does anyone really believe they only get once shot and then they are judged? How fair is that? Would your earthly father that loved you give you once chance and then forsake you because you messed up? Why then would your real Father? Ask these of the soul. See with the eyes of the soul not of the body.

Does anyone doubt that the leaders of the world are evil? Why would they let the Truth out? Why would they allow the Truth that would set everyone free from their bondage? They wouldn't. So why then is Christianity allowed? Why then does the leader of the U.S. profess to be a Christian? Does a Christian make war?

Of course, there is no way for the Truth to shine through a person's belief without that person being open to it. Trained to defend belief at all costs, the Truth can never shine in.

Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty.

But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

Originally posted by Jehosephat

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Not once have I ever claimed that I worship the only 'true' God.

you may not personally say that, yet your religion does.

Which religion is that? If you say chrisitanity then you are technically correct but very inaccurate.

Thus I have proven your statement to be highly inaccurate, and the rest of your argument pointless since you fail to go into specifics and still lump religion into one big corrupt whole

it doesn't matter what religion is it. all religions claim they worship the true god.

Prove it

becuase I know of religions that don't even worship a god, or worship many gods

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Prove it

becuase I know of religions that don't even worship a god, or worship many gods

they believe their god/gods, sorry i never put the plural, or they believe their religion is the true one... if you don't then why in the world are you a part of a religion that you don't think is true?

YOu looking at it from a wrong point of veiw. For some religions finding the "True God" is impossible for someone to show or teach. The best they can be is a guide. Just like how Christinaity uses the holy spirit to guide people to faith. YOu jsut have to find the true God. Anyone who claims they are the only ones worshipping the true god are liers.

Ask any parent if thier newborn loves them, and they will say yes, but cannot explain why. It works the same way for Chrisitans and our Love for God.

But anywaz, we are waaaaay of topic. TO bring it back the bible CAN be pure by that very same love, and the work of the holy spirit withen a person writing or translating the Bible. THe bible may be infallible, but it is almost impossible for anyone to prove its infalliblity, or that it is not infallible. The biggest weakness in its infalliblity, is how differant denominations interpet biblical scripture differantly, turning matters of adiaphera into doctrine, or even man made sacrements

finding purity and truth in religion is one of the biggest journies any person of faith will experaince

I tend to take things at face value, and if I see a similarity or hint that something may have more than one meaning, a hidden message for the initiated, the adepts, to be taught, then I can choose to agree that the symbolic or esoteric message is really there or not. Mostly I don't see it, I just try to understand what the sentences mean, straight up. Like the hidden satanic messages in rock and roll records, which were very rare if they exist at all, it is not an area I have researched. But I do know that people always read extra meaning into things, self included. I am not a member of any church, or affiliated with any one faith, becuz I don't feel it is right for me. But, I am not an atheist, in that I am a believer. Unshakeable. But I do not feel its my duty or role to convert a single soul, I tend to approach the subject from the perspective that I will let my fellow brothers and sisters make up their own mind, and whatever they choose is okay by me. Atheists, Pagans, and all others, its all good, with the one caveat that I do have a strong sense that there is such a thing as good and evil, right and wrong, in reality. Maybe not in theory, as philosophers so generously remind me, but in practice, there is. I wish I lived in theory, everything works.
I would guess that the Bible is a compilation of many different authors, from many different sources, and that it is very similar in some stories to other, equally ancient texts, which suggest a common source. So, other than the fact that I am sure Moses didn't write the account of his own burial, which is in the last book he is attributed with...and my hunch that John the apostle and Revelations author could very well have been Joanna, I have no idea who wrote what. I doubt anyone can say definitively who wrote what 2 000 years ago.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
The dead sea scrolls contained a manuscripts of the old testement that were 1000 years older then previosuly know copies and show that during that thousand years, and time leading up to the present they were acuratly translated.

Even the King James bible which was made in 1611 was made with not having all of the differant translations of the time and manuscripts. Except for word order, or spelling, there is no significant differance in content from what we have today.

Truely you can say that the Bible is God breathed and has not been changed or corrupted.

wrong!

the bible isnt pure

hell chrstianity as we know it today was a compromise by Emperor Constantine of rome to keep the christians and pagans happy. he combined pagan beliefs with christian beliefs. hell the emmaculate(sp) conseption was a pagan belief i believe from egypt. and there were so many other gosples written including the golsple of mary magdaline(sp) who in fact was not a whore (she was made a whore by the curch so long ago). constaintine pick the 4 that the religion was to be based upon and thos who believe the others were looked down upon. this is where we get the word heretic(sp) from

going back to mary magdaline. she WAS infacted married to jesus. this marriage was the most political powerful marriage in the land being that both jesus wand mary were decended from roality. its is true that jesus' claim that he was the king of the jews but it wasnt from being the son of god.

[edit on 7-31-2005 by KrazyIvan]

hell chrstianity as we know it today was a compromise by Emperor Constantine of rome to keep the christians and pagans happy. he combined pagan beliefs with christian beliefs.

I'm sorry but this is quite mistaken. I've seen this story around, and it is based on nothing but malicious invention. The historical record says otherwise. You can read all about Christianity before Constantine in the 5,000 pages of the Ante-Nicene Fathers; all about Constantine and Christianity in the pages of Eusebius, Socrates and Sozomen, all on the web.

whore by the curch so long ago). constaintine pick the 4 that the religion was to be based upon and thos who believe the others were looked down upon.

A story invented by Voltaire in the 18th century, loosely based on a late medieval legend.

this is where we get the word heretic(sp) from

The word actually comes from Greek culture, haeresis, meaning a follower who chose one or the other of the competing schools of philosophy. It was used by Paul and then the fathers to indicate someone who made up his own beliefs or chose to follow one that sounded interesting, rather than follow the teaching of Christ as given by the apostles.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

hell chrstianity as we know it today was a compromise by Emperor Constantine of rome to keep the christians and pagans happy. he combined pagan beliefs with christian beliefs.

I'm sorry but this is quite mistaken. I've seen this story around, and it is based on nothing but malicious invention. The historical record says otherwise. You can read all about Christianity before Constantine in the 5,000 pages of the Ante-Nicene Fathers; all about Constantine and Christianity in the pages of Eusebius, Socrates and Sozomen, all on the web.

whore by the curch so long ago). constaintine pick the 4 that the religion was to be based upon and thos who believe the others were looked down upon.

A story invented by Voltaire in the 18th century, loosely based on a late medieval legend.

this is where we get the word heretic(sp) from

The word actually comes from Greek culture, haeresis, meaning a follower who chose one or the other of the competing schools of philosophy. It was used by Paul and then the fathers to indicate someone who made up his own beliefs or chose to follow one that sounded interesting, rather than follow the teaching of Christ as given by the apostles.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

'You can read all about Christianity before Constantine in the 5,000 pages of the Ante-Nicene Fathers; all about Constantine and Christianity in the pages of Eusebius, Socrates...'
roger pearse

socrates died over 300 years before christianity.... how can he be a source of info. on it?
Irenaeus picked the 4 gospels circa 180 AD.