about time travel

Ok well im pretty sure that time travel cant exist, well not to the future because the future hasnt been set.
BUT
What if a group of people were talking about how time travel to the future isnt possible because the future hasnt been set to go there and then like 20 years later we time travel back to that point in time when that group of people were saying its impossibe cause it hasnt been set , where it has been for us but not for them and tell them about it?

The first condition necessary for time travel to be possible is that all times exist simultaniously and are already pre-set (yet changeable).

the main idea of time travel is so bizare that i cant be bothered typing up anything about it, i could be here for at least 2 hours of typing basic theorys..

i think the best thing anyone can do is get some books and films

books id recomend are any books to do with einstein, any stephen hawkins books,

films id recomend are

bill and teds excellent adventure,
back to the future 1,2, and 3
donnie darko

ect ect..

its so deep a subject, but the entire debate is all guesswork and theory...

unless it was proven... that time travel was possible by ufo, tesla type technology... i think this kind of debate could go on forever...

i mean it even branches off, into black holes, faster than light speed travel... ect ect...

its such a complicated subject... and i cannot be bothered racking my brain at allmost 1am..

the main conflicting principle theory that arises when time travel is considered, is the idea that two identical atoms cannot occupy the same space.

since space and time are correlated, I take this as meaning that it would be difficult to proceed into a different plane of space/time without some kind of field that would negate your presence within that area you want to go to. you'd still be there but you'd be in a protective bubble. who knows what would happen were you to step out, considering the fact that the atoms within your body may have been in a completely different location within that sector of time.

Time is both the past present and future.
In a mathmatical context we are dealing with 0 1 0

To be more precise we are dealing with -0 1 O+

Our problem here is Negative zero and positive zero are not real numbers.

So we are left with the conclusion that time is not real.
Time is created by your mind to explain to you what is going on around you.

Tacheons are born at above light speed. This is the reason they are perpeptually traveling backwards in time. They are products of temporal doorways.

At the speed of light time=o. Only light may enter a black hole.

You see there are two temporal universes. Zero time is the doorway.

The masters of old may take you to the door only you may open.

why does it have anything to do with space i never understood. as far as i know no one knows what black hole is or does. i mean have you ever known someone that went up to a black hole and peeked inside?

and it would seen more logical to think that -1 0 +1 would be a better equation in math. 0 being the present and -1 being past of course and 1 being the future.

i believe time travel is possible. it just hasnt been invented yet.

[Edited on 8-31-2003 by hmmm]

Time Travel in my opinion is a really interesting subject. A fiction book I suggest reading is "The Light Of Other Days" by Arthur C. Clarke. It's not quite about time travel but about a comppany designing a machine that could open up different lengths of worm that could allow any viewer to see into the past.

I suppose you started this thread because of the the John Titor one that was started. Well Time Travel is probably possible if our Universe is actually a Multiverse where there are infinite possibilities to our actions. John Titor all he ever did was pass onto a different Universes' timeline, he never actually caused time to go backwards, just shift one universe of existence to another.

Imagine this, if you went back in time and killed your grand mother would you exist? It all depends if we live in a Multi Verse. The Answer would be yes, except on that worldline you wouldn't exist due to the infinite possibilities.

Time Travel on a single worldline is impossible, if you were to go back in time and kill your grandmother then it is impossible for you to exist. Then how could you exist? you couldn't because you can't of killed you grandmother if you didn't exist, and so forth.

ok i believe i am going to have to disagree with you there on one part. if just shift form universe to universe wouldnt he end up in his own time? i'm under the impression that time would stiill move the same under any of the worldlines. therefore he would have to go backwards into time.


also the one worldline thing. what if it was like the time machine. everytime you tried to kill your grandmother something happend so that she didnt die? time or whatever you wanna call it stops you from changing time.

anyway its impossible with the one worldline thingy anyway because if you changed anything it would affect everything. lets say john titors post for example makes someone stay up late and read it all. he therefore calls in sic at work the next day. he is then fired. but what he didnt know is he was to meet someone he would marry and have kids with there at that job. but titor screwed it up. this then takes a dominoe effect and as far as i can see spreads forever


first of all the two dont get married and dont have a kid. then the guy gets married to a different chick. and the girl gets married to a different guy. well whoever those other ones they were to be married to have changed and any possible children with them are gone and it keeps spreading. its kinda hard to explain with words like guy and girl but i dont feel like changing my post

Okay, I'll give you the theory about he does travel back in time, but it only wors when he travels out of his worldline and can insert himself in the other worldline at any point. But I don't believe you undertand John Titors theories nor do I believe you hahve read much into them. Firstly, I'm basing the time travels physics on JT's physics, because Time Travel at the moment is physically impossible. here is what JT says about shifting into different Universes.
"A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.

On my worldline: (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).

From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I'm there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).

I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.

When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

If all this isn't enough to get your head spinning�here are some issues we're dealing with in 2036.

1. Did your worldline (D) exist at all before I got here from (C)? (personally I don't see how it couldn't)

2. What happens at the end of a worldline at the edge of the super universe?

3. If there are infinite worldlines and infinite possibilities and an edge to the super universe, doesn't that mean occurring events on worldliness are staggered as they reach the edge? (time could end at any moment without warning). "

==========================

And there is this about his Zero Diverance.

"Yes, a "ZD" is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point "may" not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of "homes" that I could return to that don't have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .0002377%. "

i did read that part but it doesnt make sense. if everytime he turns on and off the time machine he lands on a new worldline how would he back track to previous worldlines? he wouldnt. so on d trying to get back to b he would land on f. i read no where that he could stay on one specific worldline whenver he wanted. yet he seems to say so in his theory of how to get back. also he contradicts himself by saying that the divergence for his worldine when he got back was only .002 if when ever he uses teh machine it is 1 to 2 percent

ps: i like talking to you, you have powerful insights!

" or more stoms could exist at the same space in time id there had different enegy levvels and where vibrating at different speeds.

I've got a question...kind of an elementary level question.

First, is that John Titor stuff addictive or what??? I think it is all a hoax, but I can't stop reading his posts! I have a monkey on my back

My question is: So you have all these multiverses which have shifted worldlines. And you decide I want to go to 1975, which means your machine is going to take you to a worldline that is shifted such that its contemporaneous events are those that correspond to the events on your personal worldline of 1975. What parameter(s) do you give the machine to discern which worldline is shifted correctly to get you to 1975? I mean, do you enter "seach for bell bottoms AND Nixon"?

I can't get that part straight because if you just enter a target date/time, you have infinite possibilities of 1975's and you could spend a butt-load of time bouncing through 1975's that don't have any IBM computers...their worldline might still have them in the dark ages.

Originally posted by hmmm
i did read that part but it doesnt make sense. if everytime he turns on and off the time machine he lands on a new worldline how would he back track to previous worldlines? he wouldnt. so on d trying to get back to b he would land on f. i read no where that he could stay on one specific worldline whenver he wanted. yet he seems to say so in his theory of how to get back. also he contradicts himself by saying that the divergence for his worldine when he got back was only .002 if when ever he uses teh machine it is 1 to 2 percent

ps: i like talking to you, you have powerful insights!

First off he only says that our worldline at present is of a 2 percent divergance. He doesn't say anything about the divergance being greater than that in 1975. And remember he would have to go back to 1975 where there is little divergance to get back to his own time.

When John Titor describes how the Multiuniverse time machine works he is describing it as simply as possible. But he would not end up on a new line F, that would only happen when going forward where his actions would create a new line. When going back you are reversing in the history of the world to a time before the major divergance of being there. At that point if he goes forward and doesn't stop then he would end up in a time that is familiar to him because he hasn't interfered in how that dimensions world works. His going in forward in time creates a new action that puts him back on a new line that is familiar to him. That s going by the explanations of John Titor.

He says that Time Travel in 2036 s all based on risk and chance, there is a chance he would go on a line with him already on, and the original line he left may never have him return on.

Hmmm - Your comment "i believe time travel is possible. it just hasnt been invented yet." got me thinking what would you do if you went back in time? I'd probably do exactly what John Titor did.

And Valhall- I hope I answered your question in my previous post. But "bell bottoms AND Nixon

Okay, can I just say now that I haven't outright said I believe John Titor. The chances are he is a very clever fraud, I am just trying to show that John Titor is possible.

EDIT - Hows fred?

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by MrEisenhower]

I want my own time machine

I'm sorry. I'm a great big fat retard. I don't get it And I want to! but I don't get it.

Fred's laughin' at me right now (smart-assed fish).

Originally posted by Cutwolf
I want my own time machine

Me too!!!!

hmmm

(ie hmmm, as an address to valued member hmmm)...

I apologize for labelling you on another Topic as 'bellatrix mark 21'.

It was grossly unfair of me, and as you are aware it was designed with provocation of your reaction in mind, and not as an assessment of your M.O.

However, the Timelords amongst us know exactly who you are, don't we?

All ingenuity aside, in the world of time travel it is impossible for you to disguise yourself, for the Timelords are watching you.

Read this giagantic thread from google groups:
groups.google.com.../groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%2 6oe%3Dutf-8%26q%3Dtime%2Btravel%2Bpossible%253F%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch&as_drrb=b&as_maxd=4&as_maxm=7&as_maxy=1998&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=1995< br />

One thing I considered in the JT thread is that he could go back to his own time if we viewed time not as a continuum (because time is a human construct?) but as a moment surrounded by infinite probability (chances of things occuring).

So if time is really just a moment with probability of things happening a time machine could go back in time and reappear (with a low probability) in the same time. The problem is what happens when you have more than one observer of time. I guess they disappear but where do they go? So I dumped this theory

Believe me, I have responded intelligently in the past and I say time travel is not possible. I wish that that were enough, but i guess it isn't.

You say, yourself, that there must be a multi-verse out there, if time travel is to exists.

So, lets travel back in time to the big bang. This is "our" big bang and no one else�s. It is in our universe (universe A). Thermodynamics, different atoms and elements etc. work exactly the same. Another universe, universe B, has our same laws but deviates in the arrangement of these molecules across the universe. Universe C has different laws all together. For instance, there is a different gravitational constant. Universe D has different initial arrangements and different laws. Any of these universes will have different paths that they take.

Assuming that a universe won't be able to change its physics or its beginnings, these universes would always be different in billions of ways that are interconnected. For instance, if radiation frequencies in the infrared were offset. The earth could be too hot for inhabitation and we may live on mars. People would breath CO2 and my grandma would never of existed as she was.

Now, since these multi-verses are sometimes connected to every decision people could possible make. Their decision paths would be limited too. For instance, the structure of the universe before the big bang was different so that person I will call Lucy becomes a psycho-path. Corresponding to this difference, another person is changed as well in some minute way and it affects the rest of the path of the world. Like this psychopath kills someone. Then another person is falsely accused for her crime. Then they find out that they wrongly executed this person. This causes death row in mates to be put on hold. Then another guy that was wrongly accused gets a re-trial but would have been executed if Lucy wasn't a psychopath. etc. etc. etc.

This disproves the theory that there are every deviation to the path of the universe. The universe is all interconnected by the laws of physics. You change one part, you change the other. There are a limited amount of paths that could possibly be taken.

Hmmm, a machine that at the flick of a switch, a billion new galaxies are created and are put into a completely new universe.

Another point that I think is worthy of this discussion. Now this isn't logically solid, but if you were to access the future, that the universe would have to have some kind of reference for you to interact with. Same with the past; the past history isn't written in our world and isn't recorded on atoms. Example: There are numerous ways that a molecule could have got to a certain point in space and at the same energy level. This is displayed by Quantum physics and the deviance factor involving physics.

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by TheManWithThePlan]

ktpr

Why is time a human construct?

I would concur with you that the measurement of time based on a geocentric view of stellar and planetary movements is a human construct - but as an absolute, it must be true that events occur before other events, or else the preconditions for the future events will not have been there to create them, in a physical sense.

Time can be measured and evaluated in a sequence of events, can it not? With no reference to observers of the movements of the sun, or the earth, or objects - but with reference to the events themselves, and cause and effect?