Background...
A majority Sunnis (an ethnic group of less than 25% of the population) still want Saddam. Everyone else fights us because they want us out their country.
Many hate us not just for invading their country but for the looting that we let take place on our watch (in particular Iraqis national library in which books and scrolls over 2000 years old were burnt). Furthermore many Iraqis suffered under the sanctions and they suffer now because little change has taken place (for them). They blame us for both of these things.
Law and order are ordinary Iraqis biggest concerns. Rape, Kidnap, Extortion are daily threats. Many people hate the fact that our troops are so security concerned that they don’t “seem” to be doing much about it themselves.

The Logic...
The Resistance is deliberately making these problems worse because it wants the installed government out. It knows that if this government becomes popular (or even acceptable) in the eyes of ordinary Iraqis that the chances of this happening are greatly reduced.
According to history the Resistance will win because of this factor. In the 1920's Britain occupied Iraq and installed a government in the early 1930’s (I can’t remember the date but it must be on Google). We also used far more brutal tactics than today in order to curb the Resistance and it all backfired. Despite being there for well over a decade when we finally left there was a political revolution shortly afterwards and this was in spite of all the military equipment we had given the English friendly government. At the end of the day military equipment fights wars; not internal revolution.

No doubt the same will happen again.
The more American and recruited Iraqi forces they can kill the closer the Resistance comes to victory. The worse the living standards of the average Iraqi become the angrier they will be at us (or when we’re gone their government). Even when their bombs kill nothing but ordinary Iraqis we get the blame from the masses, and so the Resistance scores another goal.
Many Iraqis may even hate the Resistance, but they blame us for the Resistance being there in the first place (especially as we haven’t left their country). And if we do go then maybe that’s another objective the Resistance has met. Also there are many Resistances in Iraq so even though they all play the same game the chances are an ordinary Iraqi could find one that seems somewhat close to his own views.

A Matter of Speech?
In Iraq terrorism, is not terrorism but Resistance against an occupying force. Unlike "normal" terrorism this is almost "destined" to make political sense no matter how you view its ethics. Why? Because of the “damned if you do, and damned if you don’t” factor faced by almost every occupying force in human history.
This is why it’s important to use the right words because they have real meaning that should not be overlooked. Yours Alex

Ugh,


Okay, you forget to point out that the majority of the "terrorists" in Iraq have come into Iraq from other countries like Syria and Saudi Arabia. Most Iraqis are intellegent enough to understand what you just said, and will defeat these outsiders. This is a very different situation than when the United Kingdom tired to set up a government in Iraq long ago.

We are setting up a real Iraqi government that will be run by Iraqis.

So, yes most of what you said is true, but we all know that already. You are wrong on one mportant point; The Iraqi people and U.S. forces will defeat the terrorists, the terrorists will not win

Also, the tone of your post suggests that you are in favor of the terrorists winning; is this true?

I couldn't care less were the terrorists are coming from. Their logic is the same. I hope most Iraqis do see through it, but they certainly blame us for the insurgency, and pretty much everything else in the book.
I think the fact the Resistance (according to a recent statement by the U.S military) is as strong as it was a year shows the Resistance is working given all that we have done against them.
Don't blame me, blame them!!! I'm just attempting to explain what i know from 2 Iraqis, and many other people. Ah!!!

I do not Support terrorism in any shape or form. My desire of getting through to people would be a lot easier without them. I denounce terrorism for political reasons as much as I do for ethical.
But (and I know most people totally disagree) I support Saddam. Perhaps uniquely i used to hate him too, but you would have had to look through a lot of what i have written to understand why I came full circle, and that might be a violation of human rights. My post entitled "Regarding His Excellency Saddam Hussein and His Open Letters to the American People" explains a lot.
I don't like what the Resistance is doing to Iraq, they are all good people in nature simply because they are making a total sacrifice for what they believe to be a higher cause. But if they win I have no doubt it will be instantly reversed by us so what they are doing is a waste of time and human life. In other parts of the world maybe not, but with Iraq’s oil wealth there is a zero possibility of this not happening.
I hate the Resistances tactics but can't pretend I don't imagine understanding where they are coming. I feel sorry for them, but recognise they are doomed to fail.

If I thought they would win, and prevent a fundamentalist Muslim government from rising, then I might agree with them. But even then I wouldn’t support them, I have a life to lead and know there is far more good I can do in other ways (political and non political). And I will not have blood on my hands, politicians who do have often failed to be the best the leader (Bush, Blair and yes admittedly Saddam).

In a way what you said is a valid assumption so I will not take offence (given all the stuff I have been saying). It’s an even more valid assumption when you view the facts and opinions expressed by myself through the paranoid eyes of the mainstream media!!

Originally posted by Boatphone
Ugh,
We are setting up a real Iraqi government that will be run by Iraqis.

So, yes most of what you said is true, but we all know that already. You are wrong on one mportant point; The Iraqi people and U.S. forces will defeat the terrorists, the terrorists will not win

May i ask how you know this will happen ? You state it as if it already happened, the reality is far from that.

My question is what gives or why does the US have the RIGHT to install a PUPPET government in a country ?

Resistance is the word the media has us using to describe the "other side" of this civil war.

Its Sunni vs Shiite. Its a civil war.

Resistance sound like people who want saddam back... i can assure you NEITHER side want that!

There is no such thing as a 'resistance' in Iraq.

The TERRORIST INSURGENTS murder Iraqis. That's all
there is to it. Read the thread about how they just
blew up a bunch of children who were getting candy
from an American soldier. Freak'n sickos who will
rot in Hell, that's what the insurgents are.

Originally posted by Liberal1984
I do not Support terrorism in any shape or form.

You said that it makes 'sense' for the terrorists to be targeting
children .... that' makes you a supporter of terrorists. You said
you support Saddam, mass murderer and mass rapist ...
a king terrorist! That makes you a supporter of terrorists.
Think about it.

I don't like what the Resistance is doing to Iraq

They are not a resistance, they are terrorist insurgents fighting
against the RECOGNIZED and FREELY ELECTED government of Iraq.
They are murdering children and innocent Iraqis.

they are all good people in nature simply because
they are making a total sacrifice for what they believe to
be a higher cause.

They aren't sacrificing for a 'higher cause'. They aren't good
people. They aren't even good muslims. They are thugs and
criminals who want their illegal lifestyles back. They are MURDERING
muslim children and muslim civilians. They are stealing from their fellow
muslims every time they blow up an oil pumping station and every time
they disrupt electricity or water.

THEY are causing the Coalition of the Willing to have to stay in Iraq
LONGER. It's their fault we are still there. If they would stop and
behave as law abiding citizens and honor the freely elected Iraqi
government, then we could leave the country.

You forgot the sunni's arent a ethnic group. Its a religous group. You can devide the sunnies into turks and such. I heared that almost 1 million turks live in Nothern iraq around Kirkuk.

Yep, in this part of the world only the most Vicious and Cruel rise to the top. The Sunni's look to me like their willing to cut a million throats to get back into power and the Iraqi government and her allies have no real "balls" to blast the Sunni's back into the stoneage.


We're gonna lose this war because we're not Vicious enough.....we were back in WW II, but not anymore. The only way to win in Iraq is to evacuate all woman and children out of the Sunni triangle and hit it with about a dozen 100kt Thermo-nuclear bombs.

Maximu§

Atom bombs, is there any problem they can't solve?

Liberated country not grateful enough? Nuke em!
Uppity Arabs holding onto YOUR God given oil? Nuke em!
Damn Frenchies daring to disagree with anything you do? Nuke em!

How was the US more brutal in WW2?
And even if the US is less brutal doesnt that mean that the price of human life has risen?

It does make sense for the insurgents/resistance/al quida/morons to target the innocent and weak, easier pickings and more fear spread, destabilising the area.

One last thing, Liberal how on earth can you support Saddam?

Originally posted by XyZeR

Originally posted by Boatphone
Ugh,
We are setting up a real Iraqi government that will be run by Iraqis.

So, yes most of what you said is true, but we all know that already. You are wrong on one mportant point; The Iraqi people and U.S. forces will defeat the terrorists, the terrorists will not win

May i ask how you know this will happen ? You state it as if it already happened, the reality is far from that.

My question is what gives or why does the US have the RIGHT to install a PUPPET government in a country ?

I talk about it because like it happened bacause it did! The Iraqi people voted and elected a governement, how that government is writting a Constitution. It is not a puppet government; it is a government of real Iraqi people who care about Iraq. It is made up of all the different types of people in Iraq.

Originally posted by Liberal1984

I support Saddam.

Oh, wow. How does it feel to have zero credibility?

So when we drop JDAM's in a crowded city, it's OK, because we're just targeting buildings that Saddam might be in. Sure they're houses & restaurants in residential neighborhoods filled with women & kids, but we are not actually "targeting" the innocent people in them - they're just "collateral damage".

But when terrorists target civilians, that's bad, because they're not doing it from 10,000 feet where you cant see the faces of the people we're killing. We can pretend that we are not, in fact, "targeting" civilians.

The degree of self deception & raw dishonesty it requires to be a neocon amazes me sometimes.

[edit on 7/13/05 by xmotex]

as posted by xmotex
The degree of self deception & raw dishonesty it requires to be a neocon amazes me sometimes.

Your grasp of understanding befuddles me.
Links were provided to what Islam says on this matter.
Did you read them?
Did you understand them and the implications of what they mentioned?

Islam strictly forbids such acts, period.




seekerof

Your grasp of understanding befuddles me.

That sentence befuddles me

Your links do not adress anything I was talking about, even tangenitally.