I Don't Agree with YOU...

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I know they would both say that while we may disagree on certain things...they have never been punished as a result of that disagreement. It just doesn't work that way.

I have never seen a member punished for their views, but I have seen a moderator tell a member they were wrong but provided no evidence to back up his claims. When the member provdied many sources to back up his claims, the moderator simply said he was wrong again. They should have to back up their claims just like everyone else, not just make us take their word because they are a moderator.

The Mod's here are great and have always answered my questions, but when I saw this happen I got very irritated. I have not mentioned any names because I am not complaining, only saying that there are two sides to every story.

P.S.: Why are some Mod's Moderator title bigger than others? Is this due to rank, date they became a Mod, or just an ego thing?

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Charlie Murphy]

The only thing mods have to remember is that to most people on ATS mods are "bigger" than the normal poster. So people can be intimadated in that fashion when a mod says "no.", etc. etc.

There is one thing mods forget It's written in the secret handbook that's not being passed out anymore. On line 15 it says:

15. Mods that make fun of members behind their backs will have the negative energy visted upon them thrice-fold.

I hear you ktpr.
Thanks for the guiding advice.

Be well, friend.




seekerof

Originally posted by ktprktpr
The only thing mods have to remember is that to most people on ATS mods are "bigger" than the normal poster. So people can be intimadated in that fashion when a mod says "no.", etc. etc.

Well, speaking for myself...I do try and remember that we have to set an example, etc, etc. In my view we can still do that (by obeying the T&Cs) AND we can also still have opinions.

Personally, if I enter a issue and something comes up with someone I have been discussing an issue with, that is a violation in some way...I do what any member could/should do. I alert another staff member (use the complaint/suggestion).

There have been rare times when a member comes into the thread and insults someone else, I have warned for it (if I was not really involved) but for the most part, I point it out to someone and stay out of it.

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
That moderators here have achieved a perfect level of Buddhahood so that their own ego NEVER enters into their actions on this website? In fact, as you yourself said..."you hear it time and again"...

It's a balance. No different than one keeping their work & personal life balanced. It can be done. Is it perfect or flawless? No. But hopefully honesty (like this answer) and integrity (achived over time) can be reached. I (again just me) don't expect respect and I don't ask for respect. I would rather earn that respect by acting in a consistent and straightforward manner time-after-time.

i just want to say, .....i don't agree with you.
if i was a mod(i'm waiting with bated breath, lol), i would still not agree with you.

Let us not pussyfoot.

I agree that moderators are people too, the trick is to separate and or remove bias and a judgemental bent from the two roles; authority and contributor in kind. The majority of the people partaking of this forum do not have the ability to: move; delete or censor a post; warn; deduct points from or ban a moderator or other member for any reason much less one which is discretionary. The operative word here being discretionary. Moderators wear two hats, that of the constabulary and as a contributing member, and while acting as the latter, should be afforded no more and no less any privilege than the other “people,” which is highly unlikely given a propensity of bias toward status.

When one is elevated to a position of authority over others, one is expected to assume that of a role model, to exemplify and promote respect working in tandem to this end with all others within administration. When a few authoritarians work against this collective construct, and where no evidence of policing these malefactors is evident, the issue of respect in setting example is itself tainted, bias rears its ugly head, and authority cannot then expect to be exalted and granted exclusivity to that which it is not committed to trade.

Moderator- "Modding is a complex task with many people trying to care for many forums. Decisons are often qualitative and many calls are judgement calls.

There are several moderators here who are role models, not only in their authoritative positions but as well as in their member participation. I appreciate the thread starter's lament (notice I did not use the generic and most oft recited authoritarian term; "whine,") via posting rather than complaint or U2U because I too chose the same route in an effort to reach those who needed to be reached and who were either unresponsive or interested only in being defensive. However, I reprise a few questions from as far back as April only, created by some members to show some of the terse commentary to which they were subjected by those in command, and do so for the purpose of highlighting what should be the obvious disconnect between words of promise, action, and abject judgmental moderating.

Spliff 4020: -Ive allready used the complaint button, but Im takin this one public, because Im pissed now. I spent an hour creating that post. I studied every forum on ATS and placed it where I thought it belonged. There is definitly a consprical slant in it. And I guess since I got 3 WayAbove votes, the people must like it to.

After a couple of days of it moving along nicely, some knee-jerkin mod seems fit to throw it PTS where it now sits and hasnt even gotten a single extra view. Thanks mods. I guess only closet homosexuals, or racist black "prophets" with their little balloons are ATS worthy now.

Moderator: So, you've decided that ATS is now your personal discussion board? You can post as you like because you're in a certain mood?

………..

People whine, moderators have valid points

SMR- You know, 2 threads were closed while discussion were going on and I think that sucks.

Moderator: Another consiracy, why didn't you use the "suggestions" button rather than this drama bomb?

SMR- I have done that before many times and nothing was solved.It's a waste of time IMO.And it's not another consiracy.Why do people always start off saying that crap.

Moderator: That is the last thing we need. Personally, I'd trash this thread. We are discourage from modding by personal feelings and I believe this is correct.

Yes it is Board Questions & Business, not the Whine and Cheese Forum.

Moderator 2: BE INFORMED CYBER-DRAMA THREAT

…..

Quest- On June 20th, 2005 I started a thread that asked people to attempt to prove the existance of time as a qualifiable and real thing rather than an assumed abstract idea.

The point of the thread was that time is only assumed and may no really exist. In line with denying ignorance, I left it open for debate to get people thinking.

Seeing as how its been 24 action and i have not received even a responce to this, I bring it up here. Now if it was just based on some ATS policy i wouldn't even second guess it, however I call bias.

XXX moved my thread to BTS (a less viewed forum) saying that it would only cause philosophical debate. I sent XXX a U2U stating the intent was indeed to bring up the fact that the idea of time in science is a fundemental flaw and assumption that we allow to go uncontrolled.

Moderator: Instead of bitching, why not try contacting another mod or admin via U2U or the Comments/Complaint Form?

Moderator 2: BTW pandoas_box, if you don't like it here, see that little button up top that says "log out"? Feel free to use it.

…..

Orionthehunter- I'm just wondering if there is an opt out list I can sign up for to no longer receive the emails for the council positions. I've received 14 u2u's in 2 days and am now deleting them like spam in an email inbox. Any opt out list I can sign up for or is this political campaigning almost over with?

Moderator: It takes about 10 times as long to complain about the u2u's as it does to press delete.

If you're not interested in learning about the candidates that is obviously your choice, and you are fully empowered to delete their messages.

I don't understand what there is to complain about. You hit delete and they vanish. Is it the 5 seconds of your time that you see "You have 5 new U2U's"??

Yikes...

Moderator 2- I am thoroughly amazed that members of ATS, a site that claims to deny ignorance, has so many members who have no tolerance (or interest?) for the ATS council campaign (mentioned in the Campaign Forum) or the u2us designed to inform members about the candidates.

…..

Slank- I find the obsessive 'organizing' by some moderators to be well-meaning if misguided, such as XXX and the more poisonous workings by XXX to be detrimental to a real interchange of ideas.

Moderator: Give me a break. Does a librarian stop people from reading because they organize the books? Do they hide certain books because they move them to a "backwater" shelf? Do they block free thoughts too by their actions?

Now I guess that goes for anyone who tries to organize things...video stores, food stores, drug stores, tire stores, etc, etc...

Yep, they all try and block free thinking. Or, maybe...you are just overly critical? Naw...

Moderator 2- You feel you should attempt to lead a rebellion at this board because you don't get your way when your way goes against our terms and conditions?
Why don't you go forth and start your own board if you are so unhappy with following the rules of this board?

Thread locked. Enough drama-wanting.

……

Jakko- Even though usually banners and commercials on ATS really don't bother me, because I understand they are one of the reasons why ATS is able to upgrade hardware every now and then, lately I see more and more "retarded" commercials popping up when I first hit abovetopsecret.com. "You are the 10000000th visitor" "You have won a cruise" "Call this number within XXX seconds"

Moderator: There really is no reason to have pesky pop-ups these days… It's easier to get rid of this junkware than it is to complain about it.

……

Seth76- Can a mod please tell me who started this thread so I can reply via U2U msg?

Moderator: What you want to discuss how to steal bandwith from corporations? "There's no such thing as a free lunch" applies here. Who do you think pays for the phone lines, fiber-optics, the routers, the electricity to make it all work? "Tapping" into this is unauthorized and considererd theft. Refer to rule #10 in the site Terms and Conditions…

Denied! No one is going to post/discuss this information here.

Seth76- I wasn't aware that the thread violated the TOS through inquiry. It just seemed exceptionally ignorant so I wanted to reply

Moderator- It's not a secret. You can get free Internet access at you local library.

Take your complaints to U2U

Moderator: Crying Mod day? Dude, we're reaching out to the membership, if you wish to just "bitch", please, use the "suggestions" button. This is getting tiresome.

Moderator: We are going to get decisions that will upset members sometimes, people just have to get used to it, and take the issue to utu's rather than here.

Moderator: If you have a problem, you know you can u2u me any time you want, but please, why not try and not create board drama, huh?

Here, your "freedom of speech" is a privilege granted by the owner of this website. Any topic whatsoever can easily be discussed without insults, vulgarities, and taunting language. Our management style, organized structure, and efficient services are designed to created an environment in which members aspire to our higher standards, not scoff at them.

OH EM GEE NOE!

Mods stink!

kekekekeke

*runs*

Mod Is Love

For some bizarre reason, I have this vision of Zedd portraying Phil Hartman portraying Charlton Heston running down the streets of the Soylent Green universe screaming “Mods are people! They're peeeeepulllll!” in a strange variant of a classic Saturday Night Live skit.

But I suppose that's just the psychosis talking.

Seeing as ATS is a conspiracy community, it's not terribly surprising that there would be some inherent distrust of board authority.

After all, if you were a mindless dupe who believes everything “authority” tells you, you wouldn't be here, right?

So there's a natural tension between the “free speech rights” of members and the editorial duties of moderators here in our wild, wacky and wonderful online showplace of lovable eccentricity.

Personally, I think that's a healthy cultural dynamic, because it keeps both members and mods on their toes, and contributes to ATS's well-earned reputation as one of the best-moderated forums on the 'Net.

When I find myself puzzling over the issue, I find it best to think of it this way:

Moderators are members who help run ATS.

That's what they are, no more, no less.

This sounds a lot like that "MY buddy is now my boss" syndrome..

You know the one..
a group of people work together, more or less equal.
they hang out, bitch together, spend the in-and outs of each
week, communicating on the same level.

Then suddenly........


One of them is "plucked" from the group.
Now, your buddy is your boss!
It's cool, things will be the same, right.
Just cause you have more benefits than the rest of us.
Just because you now have to write our yearly progress reports.
Wrong..LOL

Suddenly you find, as the new boss.
You aren't invited out for bowling as much.
No more poker games.
Conversations suddenly stop, when you enter the room.
(remember what you used to bitch about?) LOL..



anyway, Mods, it's kinda like that..
human nature..a little alienation from the common folk..so to speak.

I think we all appreciate you, like we appreciate cops.
Generally happy to see you around, unless we're in the mood to drive too fast..


Space

ooops. I forgot to mention, there will always be those that challenge
authority, even if it means their jobs..

[edit on 12-7-2005 by spacedoubt]

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
You don't have to agree with me. Certainly not because of the little staff title on my profile.

You should tell that to some of the other staff ZZZ

We all discuss site issues and keep checks and balances with each other, but at the same time...were also members too. We are people. We have opinions. We care about things. We have passions.

".....some of us also have agendas......"

That being said, we don't use our staff powers to punish or warn people for opposing views or for not agreeing with us.

Are you absolutely sure of that? I just want to double check y'know......

So granted, everyone is entitled to their opinions.... but where does ATS stand on racism? And disgraceful disrespect to other peoples religions?

I just need a few quotes ZZZ. Something I can throw at certain people when they start off on some closet-Nazi pisstake

SomewhereinBetween, thanks for noticing. Some of my finest work. I wish I could take the time to participate more but work comes first so everyone, including you, have a nice clean site to post at.

Bad Boys Bad Boys, Whatcha Gonna Do?

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I think we all appreciate you, like we appreciate cops.

Meanwhile, most people wouldn't want to invite a cop to check out their favorite “X” rave club.

Mods have editorial power on ATS, like the ability to edit posts, nuke threads, give warnings and so on. That can freak some people out, especially when they find themselves going head to head with a mod on a “hot button” issue.

But that shouldn't prevent members from speaking their minds. If you aren't violating the T&C, you're on solid ground.

Note, however, an important term for members to remember:

15.) You will, if asked by myself or a moderator, cease posting any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor taste by the representatives of the message board.

Basically, if a mod or admin tells you to cool it, you have already agreed to do so by being here. However, if you think you've been the victim of a bad call, you can do something about it.

Reporting Police Brutality

If you consider any action by a mod or admin to be unreasonable, you can complain about it using the Gripe/Help button. Doing that puts your grievance in the Complaints forum where admins, mods and Council staff alike can review and comment on it.

The fact that elected Councilors -- people you choose -- can participate in this process is not a minor thing.

When I comment in the Complaint forum, I do so not as a “buddy” to the staff, but on behalf of member interests. That's my job as a member representative, and that's the way I approach it. If I did otherwise, I would be derelict in my duties.

Of course, I am not an enemy of the staff just because I represent members. Far from it. They care about members, too. You would not believe the lengths I have seen them go to just to make sure they're being reasonable in handling member grievances.

To summarize the dynamic, I am a witness to the fact that, staff or not, ATS membership is the most important thing any of us can claim here. Membership has its privileges, and staff powers are no more than an addition to the most important thing all members have: the ability to contribute posts to ATS.

It's easy to take for granted, but all politics and drama aside, at the end of the day, simply being an ATS member is a pretty big deal, and ATS members get a lot more respect than they may realize for just being members.

Originally posted by intrepid
SomewhereinBetween, thanks for noticing.

Some of my finest work.

I wish I could take the time to participate more but work comes first so everyone, including you, have a nice clean site to post at.

I notice everything and miss nothing.

From a psychological point of view, It would have have better had you not responded as you did, particularly with the animation at the end, since there is a certain sheepishness about it.

Clean is subjective, and I do not ever recall stating that I think ATS is a nice clean site within which to post, thereby allowing you or anyone else to make that judgement for me. In fact, I have never really provided my assessment in full, but I have provided enough in portions sufficient to reach those whom I expect can understand and consider what I have stated.

Just so you understand, Intrepid, were I intolerant of this site, I simply would not be here. That would be likened to my choice of town/city I choose to call home, I can hate it, and keep my voice silenced; complain but stay put; move elsewhere, or appreciate it but let the mayor know when I think he has gone astray. Were my criticisms not in fact noted, I would have been exiled from this town months ago.

And I do not ever need to attach an insecure little giggle when I make my case which in effect states that I am unsure of same.

[edit on 7/12/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

ok whats up with these old threads appearing with the last post of 2005??

reply to post by bourbon2nite


Hi there,


Chances are they have been *bumped* by a Staff Member.
Likely due to something happening on the ATS Forums that relates to these threads.

I'm guessing from the subject matter of the recently *bumped* threads its likely due to a bit of trollery happening, or people getting too heated in discussions.

ZeddicusZulZorander.....that name brings back memories.